It for sure needs to be improved, but F2F is better than having all resale on the secondary market. So, I'd rather have the same system for the next tour rather than not having anything official.
I like F2F but it needs some major tweaks.... -Allow the selling of tickets below face value if desired by the seller -When trying to coordinate a drop/re-sell tickets to a specific fan, let the sell link between the seller and buyer have about a 5 minute buffer before the tickets are available to everyone else.
"I got memories, I got shit"
ISO a pair of Nashville night 2 tickets. PM me to coordinate a drop!
For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?
I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..
Removing transfer restrictions would be better than this nonsense. At least that way members could freely sell and trade with each other. I think enough conscientious 10c members would adhere to the policy of selling at face value only.
I wish they would go back to will call on the day of the show... I don't see any better method for allocation of 10C tickets, but I think that ship has sailed.
I wish they would go back to will call on the day of the show... I don't see any better method for allocation of 10C tickets, but I think that ship has sailed.
Agreed with willcall and I would add bring back priority. The combination of those two missing with 10C tickets means more 10C tickets are being sold than ever before so I have zero faith in that every changing.
It seems like they don't care anymore who gets the tickets as long as the original ticket gets sold.
As someone who was completely shutout of the lottery, F2F, while it has its flaws, is the only shot at a face value ticket. And the best tickets in the house for that matter. The addition of the drop link was a good one. Put your time in, specifically closer to the show date, and you'll have success. We're still not close enough to be putting in real time and like the fall tour, many of the complaints will be forgotten as shows open up.
PJ does a phenomenal job of getting tickets into the hands of REAL fans when tickets are originally sold. It's the lottery winning and ticket hoarding fans that put in for all the shows and use the tickets they don't want as trade bait (take a look on these boards, they're all over the place!) who ultimately release them and they end up on the secondary market. The better change is limiting the number of shows you can put in for in the lottery.
I like F2F but it needs some major tweaks.... -Allow the selling of tickets below face value if desired by the seller -When trying to coordinate a drop/re-sell tickets to a specific fan, let the sell link between the seller and buyer have about a 5 minute buffer before the tickets are available to everyone else.
They will never go back to a Will Call system (too much work at this stage of their careers)
So the only alternative would be for full and open transfer of all tickets, including 10c tickets. But, with this, people would get so mad about the 10% of people who scalp their 10c tickets and not realize that it helps the other 90% of us, and the backlash would be too loud for the band to ignore.
2010: Cleveland 2012: Atlanta 2013: London ONT / Wrigley Field / Pittsburgh / Buffalo / San Diego / Los Angeles I / Los Angeles II 2014: Cincinnati / St. Louis / Tulsa / Lincoln / Detroit / Denver 2015: New York City 2016: Ft. Lauderdale / Miami / Jacksonville / Greenville / Hampton / Columbia / Lexington / Philly II / New York City II / Toronto II / Bonnaroo / Telluride / Fenway I / Wrigley I / Wrigley - II / TOTD - Philadelphia, San Francisco 2017: Ohana Fest (EV) 2018: Amsterdam I / Amsterdam II / Seattle I / Seattle II / Boston I / Boston II 2021: Asbury Park / Ohana Encore 1 / Ohana Encore 2 2022: Phoenix / LA I / LA II / Quebec City / Ottawa / New York City / Camden / Nashville / St. Louis / Denver 2023: St. Paul II 2024: Las Vegas I / Las Vegas II / New York City I / New York City II / Philly I / Philly II / Baltimore
There needs to be a way to transfer to 10c emails that entered the lottery. I understand scalpers can get a 10c membership…otherwise fully transferable.
2003: Uniondale, MSG x2 | 2004: Reading | 2005: Gorge, Vancouver, Philly | 2006: East Rutherford x2, Gorge x2, Camden 1, Hartford | 2008: MSG x2, VA Beach | 2009: Philly x3 | 2010: MSG x2, Bristow | 2011: Alpine Valley x2 | 2012: MIA Philly | 2013: Wrigley, Charlottesville, Brooklyn 2 | 2014: Milan, Amsterdam 1 | 2016: MSG x2, Fenway x2, Wrigley 2 | 2018: Rome, Krakow, Berlin, Wrigley 2 | 2021: Sea Hear Now | 2022: San Diego, LA x2, MSG, Camden, Nashville, St. Louis, Denver | 2023: St. Paul 1, Chicago x2, Fort Worth x2, Austin 2 | 2024: Las Vegas 1, Seattle x2, Indy, MSG x2, Philly x2, Baltimore, Ohana 2 | 2025: Florida x2, Atlanta x2, Pittsburgh x2
Not in its current state. if 10C tickets are being put on fan to fan they should go to the next person on the lottery list. they should stay 10C tickets.
F2F was initially a great innovation. In 2022 and 2023, it successfully worked to eliminate/minimize scalping and to ensure that tickets got into the hands of actual fans who would use them. During that period, due to the transfer restrictions, there were none or very few F2F tickets up for sale on secondary ticketing sites at inflated prices. But then that all changed once the scalpers developed the technology to reverse engineer the bar codes. And now the secondary sites are full of F2F tickets being sold at enormous markups. Unfortunately I think it was inevitable- it was just a matter of time before the scalpers figured out a work around. Now fan to fan has effectively become fan to bot. It doesn’t matter how fast we are- we can’t beat the bots. Now that the entire purpose behind and function of F2F has been destroyed by the scalpers/bots, I think the whole ticketing system needs to be revamped for next tour.
Again all of the yeses are ok with bots scooping up the majority of the tickets on fan to fan? That is what a yes is implying in its current state.
I am a bit baffled that anyone would vote yes to be honest especially those that have seen it happen in real time with secondary sites minutes later posting the seats.
The current F2F is broken, but still better than than just everything going to scalpers. Ideal scenario would be to have all 10 club tickets to go back into some kind of pool where members who got shut out have first priority. Or at least maybe lock the returned 10c tix so that you have to be in the 10c to buy those particular tickets. TM already has our 10c information so that shouldn’t be that hard of an addition. Sure the scalpers still sign up for 10c but I feel like it would help a little.
Again all of the yeses are ok with bots scooping up the majority of the tickets on fan to fan? That is what a yes is implying in its current state.
I am a bit baffled that anyone would vote yes to be honest especially those that have seen it happen in real time with secondary sites minutes later posting the seats.
Yeah, the "in its current state" is the crux of it.
Of course if they could get it back to what it was in 2024, most people would be fine with it.
For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?
I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..
I've heard this several times. But I don't understand how. How are scalpers able to sell so many tickets that are non-transferable? Buying off F2F has the same resell restrictions.
F2F was initially a great innovation. In 2022 and 2023, it successfully worked to eliminate/minimize scalping and to ensure that tickets got into the hands of actual fans who would use them. During that period, due to the transfer restrictions, there were none or very few F2F tickets up for sale on secondary ticketing sites at inflated prices. But then that all changed once the scalpers developed the technology to reverse engineer the bar codes. And now the secondary sites are full of F2F tickets being sold at enormous markups. Unfortunately I think it was inevitable- it was just a matter of time before the scalpers figured out a work around. Now fan to fan has effectively become fan to bot. It doesn’t matter how fast we are- we can’t beat the bots. Now that the entire purpose behind and function of F2F has been destroyed by the scalpers/bots, I think the whole ticketing system needs to be revamped for next tour.
I guess that answers my questions. I had no idea they were able to do that? Seems like it could be fixed though.
I like F2F but it needs some major tweaks.... -Allow the selling of tickets below face value if desired by the seller -When trying to coordinate a drop/re-sell tickets to a specific fan, let the sell link between the seller and buyer have about a 5 minute buffer before the tickets are available to everyone else.
Mostly agree on both these points if changes were to be made...
If you overpaid for Premium or simply can't go, the artist/promoter already got their $ and discounted F2F rarely competes with leftover unsold tickets for PJ shows (unless they release limited view tickets after the public on sale)
Ticket transfers are difficult because resale can game the system with multiple accounts, etc. But for those just looking to get in the venue they could implement a 10C Wishlist where fans enrolled in the lottery keep their payment info active and any F2F ticket availability gets to them first. If you don't like what you automatically bought in this system, you release them back to the F2F pool again. Would be better than sniping against bots on Ticketmaster for drops, but the tradeoff is it eliminates the ability to time a sale with a buddy.
Again all of the yeses are ok with bots scooping up the majority of the tickets on fan to fan? That is what a yes is implying in its current state.
I am a bit baffled that anyone would vote yes to be honest especially those that have seen it happen in real time with secondary sites minutes later posting the seats.
Calls for will-call, release to 10C only, etc. are calls for a completely different, currently unimplemented TM system. That simply is not realistic. Realistic options are zero transfer restrictions or the currently implemented F2F. Currently, we at least have a chance of scoring face value tickets! Be careful what you wish for...
I think many high number 10C members put in for more shows than they plan to attend with the hopes of scoring GA. If they don’t, they try and use those seats as trade bait knowing they can release them to F2F is they don’t have any luck. I get the move, but it’s ultimately feeding the secondary market.
Most of PJs ticket control is during the original 10C sale. And they do a phenomenal job of getting tickets in the REAL fans hands! We’re the one who mess it up. Restoring priority show selection and re-adding a GA only option are realistic hopes and would go a long way in keeping fans from feeding the secondary market.
Remove transfer restriction. Then actual demand and market value for the majority of tickets won't be obfuscated behind a "sold out" map on Ticketmaster, PJ Premium ticket prices, and/or insane prices on resale sites. And we can trade and sell amongst each other. Also gives people the opportunity to sell less desirable tickets below face value that they otherwise might have to eat the cost of entirely.
Enforce not selling Ten Club tickets above face value. Create a Ticket Exchange section on this forum and advertise it to people who wouldn't otherwise come here other than to buy/sell/trade tickets. It's not intuitive to people who don't participate that the "Given to Fly" section is often used for this and is one of the reasons why Facebook has a much wider audience despite the fact that the vast majority of legit users over there are also Ten Club members. Mention it in the newsletters during tour season. The Ten Club should also have the authority to enforce their own policy by being able to verify that a particular subset of tickets were from the fan club lottery and then if they find them on Vivid/TickPick/Stubhub you cancel or will call them, and terminate memberships. Members should self-police as well.
I like F2F but it needs some major tweaks.... -Allow the selling of tickets below face value if desired by the seller -When trying to coordinate a drop/re-sell tickets to a specific fan, let the sell link between the seller and buyer have about a 5 minute buffer before the tickets are available to everyone else.
They'd never allow that second one, as it opens up to scalpers.
What'd might be worth looking at: Allow ticket transfers via NFC. If the other person's phone is in close proximity, shouldn't they be allowed the ticket?
Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
F2F tickets being flippable (and transferable with the right tech) is 100% a preventable problem for TM. They just don't care. If they refactored their barcode generation to actually make the tickets non-reproducible, it would cut out the brokers and we'd be good. If they did that I'd be for F2F all day everyday; the system actually worked to keep the best seats in the hands of fans without markup for a couple of tours. In it's current form, we'd all be better off if it didn't exist. The competition for tickets is basically the same as it was before F2F (brokers try to buy as much as they can as quickly as they can), except people who want to get their tickets into the hands of other fans at face value (via transfer) just can't. It's a broken system.
For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?
I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..
Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.
It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.
For anyone voting yes how are you ok with being forced to sell your tickets to scalpers just so they can make a huge profit on your 10C seats?
I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..
Isn't the whole point of f2f to cut scalpers out of the picture? I don't get what you're saying when they literally can't be sold for more than the original purchase price.
It's not a perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than the overall ticketmaster experience which allows scalpers.
Scalpers are buying up most of the tickets on fan to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.
"In it's current state" are the operative words. Sadly, this iteration of fan to fan is almost useless. The addition of link sharing has promise, but even that has not worked as intended. Fan to fan worked very well for the 2022 and 2023 tours. 2024 saw it begin to slide but nowhere close to the problem it is now.
Definitely some good suggestions here on how to improve it. Any fix needs multiple changes to happen. There isn't a silver bullet (despite the joy I would get seeing all fan club tix listed on resale sites cancelled and resold to members with no ability to resell). That also means looking at fan club member behaviour too, and not just the ticket resellers who have memberships and pose as fans. These short tours have created an opportunity for members (especially those with average to low fan club numbers) to put in for all shows and then hold those tickets like they are in a card game, trying to trade for the shows they actually intend on attending. I honestly wonder how many tickets are being held right now by fan club members who already have tix to a show or have no intention of attending that particular show. Or those reselling a pair or two at marked up prices in order to pay for the shows they do plan to attend.
There is a lot of blame to go around here, with the ticket bots being far and away the biggest problem.
The good news is that for those with patience, there are likely ticket options on the day of.
"In it's current state" are the operative words. Sadly, this iteration of fan to fan is almost useless. The addition of link sharing has promise, but even that has not worked as intended. Fan to fan worked very well for the 2022 and 2023 tours. 2024 saw it begin to slide but nowhere close to the problem it is now.
Definitely some good suggestions here on how to improve it. Any fix needs multiple changes to happen. There isn't a silver bullet (despite the joy I would get seeing all fan club tix listed on resale sites cancelled and resold to members with no ability to resell). That also means looking at fan club member behaviour too, and not just the ticket resellers who have memberships and pose as fans. These short tours have created an opportunity for members (especially those with average to low fan club numbers) to put in for all shows and then hold those tickets like they are in a card game, trying to trade for the shows they actually intend on attending. I honestly wonder how many tickets are being held right now by fan club members who already have tix to a show or have no intention of attending that particular show. Or those reselling a pair or two at marked up prices in order to pay for the shows they do plan to attend.
There is a lot of blame to go around here, with the ticket bots being far and away the biggest problem.
The good news is that for those with patience, there are likely ticket options on the day of.
Thats the good news for those with patience for sure.
The bad news is the casuals that are just going to a TM event page and seeing whats available all they see is Premiums up and pay the inflated price. TM and PJ win with F2F being scooped up right away.
Comments
-Allow the selling of tickets below face value if desired by the seller
-When trying to coordinate a drop/re-sell tickets to a specific fan, let the sell link between the seller and buyer have about a 5 minute buffer before the tickets are available to everyone else.
ISO a pair of Nashville night 2 tickets. PM me to coordinate a drop!
I don't get how anyone can be ok with this system in its current state that has been following the ticket sales and where they end up after you sell them..
I wish they would go back to will call on the day of the show... I don't see any better method for allocation of 10C tickets, but I think that ship has sailed.
It seems like they don't care anymore who gets the tickets as long as the original ticket gets sold.
They will never go back to a Will Call system (too much work at this stage of their careers)
So the only alternative would be for full and open transfer of all tickets, including 10c tickets. But, with this, people would get so mad about the 10% of people who scalp their 10c tickets and not realize that it helps the other 90% of us, and the backlash would be too loud for the band to ignore.
2012: Atlanta
2013: London ONT / Wrigley Field / Pittsburgh / Buffalo / San Diego / Los Angeles I / Los Angeles II
2014: Cincinnati / St. Louis / Tulsa / Lincoln / Detroit / Denver
2015: New York City
2016: Ft. Lauderdale / Miami / Jacksonville / Greenville / Hampton / Columbia / Lexington / Philly II / New York City II / Toronto II / Bonnaroo / Telluride / Fenway I / Wrigley I / Wrigley - II / TOTD - Philadelphia, San Francisco
2017: Ohana Fest (EV)
2018: Amsterdam I / Amsterdam II / Seattle I / Seattle II / Boston I / Boston II
2021: Asbury Park / Ohana Encore 1 / Ohana Encore 2
2022: Phoenix / LA I / LA II / Quebec City / Ottawa / New York City / Camden / Nashville / St. Louis / Denver
2023: St. Paul II
2024: Las Vegas I / Las Vegas II / New York City I / New York City II / Philly I / Philly II / Baltimore
I am a bit baffled that anyone would vote yes to be honest especially those that have seen it happen in real time with secondary sites minutes later posting the seats.
Of course if they could get it back to what it was in 2024, most people would be fine with it.
They'd never allow that second one, as it opens up to scalpers.
What'd might be worth looking at: Allow ticket transfers via NFC. If the other person's phone is in close proximity, shouldn't they be allowed the ticket?
10/7/96 (FL), 9/22/98 (FL), 9/23/98 (FL), 8/9/00 (FL), 8/10/00 (FL), 8/12/00 (FL), 4/11/03 (FL), 4/12/03 (FL), 4/13/03 (FL), 7/8/03 (NY), 7/9/03 (NY), 7/12/03 (PA), 7/14/03 (NJ), 10/8/04 (FL), 8/5/07 (IL), 11/27/12 (FL), 12/6/13 (WA), 4/8/16 (FL), 4/9/16 (FL), 4/11/16 (FL), 8/5/16 (MA), 8/22/16 (IL), 8/8/18 (WA), 8/10/18 (WA), 9/25/21 (CA), 9/26/21 (CA), 5/3/22 (CA), 5/12/22 (CA), 5/13/22 (CA), 9/18/23 (TX), 9/19/23 (TX), 10/23/23 (WA), 10/24/23 (WA), 5/28/24 (WA), 5/30/24 (WA)
to fan before us humans are able to even see them on the map.
Have you been following fan to fan this tour?
Definitely some good suggestions here on how to improve it. Any fix needs multiple changes to happen. There isn't a silver bullet (despite the joy I would get seeing all fan club tix listed on resale sites cancelled and resold to members with no ability to resell). That also means looking at fan club member behaviour too, and not just the ticket resellers who have memberships and pose as fans. These short tours have created an opportunity for members (especially those with average to low fan club numbers) to put in for all shows and then hold those tickets like they are in a card game, trying to trade for the shows they actually intend on attending. I honestly wonder how many tickets are being held right now by fan club members who already have tix to a show or have no intention of attending that particular show. Or those reselling a pair or two at marked up prices in order to pay for the shows they do plan to attend.
There is a lot of blame to go around here, with the ticket bots being far and away the biggest problem.
The good news is that for those with patience, there are likely ticket options on the day of.
The bad news is the casuals that are just going to a TM event page and seeing whats available all they see is Premiums up and pay the inflated price. TM and PJ win with F2F being scooped up right away.