Betterman/Nothingman question

Betterman308
Betterman308 Posts: 8
edited May 2005 in Words and Music...Communication
Now this has probably already been discussed in the past, but if so I've never read it. So here goes......

Do you think theres a story behind Betterman that leads into Nothingman?
I know everyones got their own interpretation of these songs, but the way I see it,

Betterman is about a guy whos not doing the right thing by his partner (cheating, staying out etc.) she wants to break up, to find someone better.
"She dreams in colour", of a full life, not the black and white life shes in.

Then Nothingman talks of a guy whos broken up with girl and now finds himself on his own, empty, a nothingman.
"He who forgets, will be destined to remember" , he took her for granted and now lives the rest of his life with that thought.

It was the similar lines that got me thinking:

She loved him, yeah...she don't want to leave this way
She feeds him, yeah...that's why she'll be back again

from Betterman, and then:

Oh, she don't want him...
Oh, she won't feed him...after he's flown away...
Oh, into the sun...ah, into the sun...

from Nothingman.

Is this another set of songs similar to the Alive trilogy, if so whats the third song?
Any thoughts about all this??
"Fuck the Pessimists, Fuck em"

E. Vedder, Live at the Garden.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • armanHammer
    armanHammer Posts: 471
    Leatherman? :p

    I really like your interpretation though.
    Riverside.. LA.. California. EV?
  • GreenMonkey
    GreenMonkey Posts: 36
    Betterman and Nothingman were always related to each other, because the lyrics were so close. I think more evidence that they are partnered together is the fact that when PJ plays them they are usually played together and yes sometimes they through in Leatherman in for a third, but I don't believe it is lyrically contected.

    Sometimes I think the connection is as simple as they all contain the word and gender "man" in the titles.
    "It comes in a 8-pack where's the other 7. We've got band member up here they're dry ... We'd like some more beer, beer for the band and all our friends. Let's go." - Vedder (2005.09.22 Halifax)

    2003.06.29 ~ Montreal
    2005.09.22 ~ Halifax
  • holly21
    holly21 Posts: 5
    i had put something in regards to your question about betterman/nothingman but i think that it is against the rules of the bbs (which i just read). reading that i totally understand why it is against the rules so i have removed it before it gets removed. as for your question i think you could be right, as it does sound like a progressing situation for the man in each song, but it could also just be coincidence. who knows?
  • Redwings16
    Redwings16 Posts: 1
    holly21 wrote:
    I dunno how true this is but I read somewhere that Betterman was about Eddie's mom (ie she is the woman in the song, wanting to get out of a bad relationship). If this is true I would guess that the connection between betterman and nothingman is coincidence only, but who knows.

    I downloaded, what I though was, an acoustic version of Betterman and before the song started Eddie said:

    "This is for the bastard who married my mom."

    I never made the correlation between Nothingman and Betterman though.
  • holly21
    holly21 Posts: 5
    oh no, i just removed that! lol.
  • Superunknown_jam
    Superunknown_jam Posts: 83
    I had never thought about that, but it sounds like a possibility, the lyrics are similar, and...who knows??
    Anyway, loved your interpretation :)

    But leatherman, I don't think so...and I don't like the song lol

    *****
    Speaking as a child of the 90's
  • artin90
    artin90 Posts: 66
    i dont think so because betterman was written when ed was still little and nothingman was written later.
    “ ahh…. Yaa…. If you trust me at all… if you wanna listen to me at all… which you certainly don’t have to. Speaking from experience I can tell you that things change. You could believe me, you don’t have to. They probably won’t change, unless you make them. The best way to change something around you, something you don’t like, is.. to change yourself. I don’t think you want other people changing you.. I think.. I think.. the only person you want changing you… is yourself. So if you ain’t happy…. If you’re reading magazines about generation x’s and thinking ‘ya im one of them’ well fuck that…. Don’t let anybody tell you who you are. No… No…. No one can tell me who I am. I can tell you who I am but that would be a long story… I can tell you who I am and it wouldn’t fit in a Rolling Stone…. It wouldn’t fit in a video… it wouldn’t… its my life…. Its your life. Youre the only one that knows who you are. I hope you know who you are. If you don’t know who you are, figure it out. Cause you are some body. And Im probably stating the obvious. But I just thought I would do it anyway. So if you fell like you got a piece of duct tape on your mouth, if you feel like you cant speak. Take it off, Speak up. Speak your Mind. Shout it Out. Let ‘em Hear Ya. Shout it out…… YAAA YAAAAA yAAAAAAAAAAA.” Eddie Vedder (Porch ’96 Randle Island 2)

    10/22/03
    Ten, No Code, Vs., Yield, Riot Act, Vitalogy, Binaural

  • DarkStar
    DarkStar Posts: 734
    artin90 wrote:
    i dont think so because betterman was written when ed was still little and nothingman was written later.

    what do you mean by little? and why would that necessarily mean the two songs aren't companion songs?

    ds
    And no one sings me lullabyes
    And no one makes me close my eyes
    So I throw the windows wide
    And call to you across the sky....
  • rony
    rony Posts: 212
    I really didn't notice that until you pointed it out but now.............. its hard not to see a connection
  • RVM86
    RVM86 Posts: 76
    By the interpretation that Betterman308 wrote, I agree that there might be a correlation. Betterman was a Bad Radio song and I believe Jeff wrote Nothingman. So maybe the songs are similar through coincidence. Or maybe Jeff wrote Nothingman as a continuation of Betterman. Who knows?
    War In Iraq? Do It In My Name.
  • moho
    moho Posts: 541
    was nothingman not written by jeff? if i remember correctly...
    So wouldn't that be a bit strange if betterman writtn by eddie when he was a wee lad had a connection to nothingman written by jeff?
    JUST PLAY THE F***ING NOTE!!!
  • moho
    moho Posts: 541
    sorry i didn't see RVMs post above mine till too late all credit goes to he/her
    JUST PLAY THE F***ING NOTE!!!
  • Betterman308
    Betterman308 Posts: 8
    I didnt realise that Jeff wrote Nothingman, but like RVM86 said, maybe it was written as an answer to Betterman.
    I know Eddie wrote Betterman way before Pearl Jam, but both songs come out on the same album, so the topic might have been discussed whilst writing the album.
    "Fuck the Pessimists, Fuck em"

    E. Vedder, Live at the Garden.
  • RVM86
    RVM86 Posts: 76
    Sorry guys, I think I was wrong. Jeff didn't write the lyrics to Nothingman, he wrote the music. Ed wrote the lyrics. Well, maybe I'm just going crazy. Sorry!!
    War In Iraq? Do It In My Name.
  • ||Release_Me||
    ||Release_Me|| Posts: 1,871
    RVM86 wrote:
    Sorry guys, I think I was wrong. Jeff didn't write the lyrics to Nothingman, he wrote the music. Ed wrote the lyrics. Well, maybe I'm just going crazy. Sorry!!

    I was a bit worried that i knew nothing about this because i always thought Eddie wrote the lyrics (they seem like typical Eddie lyrics) and Jeff wrote the music.

    Either way, its a beautiful song and i agree that its linked to Betterman. I think they're on the same album for a reason.
    "This town deserves a better class of criminal... and I'm gonna give it to them."

  • Rhinocerous Surprise
    Rhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    I think one of the major factors of Pearl Jam's music is that it is, by their own design, very much up to personal interpretation. So, if your mind/heart makes a connection between the two, it reflects both your own experiences/mindset, and Ed's wonderful, universally personal lyrics.

    On the other hand, if you don't make a connection, it is, again, down to personal interpretation. Neither side is wrong -- both are right.

    I personally like to think of them as connected -- for me it adds a greater resonance to both songs. At the same time, I love them equally as separate entities, because, in and of themselves, they each tell a beautiful story.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • christmas clean
    christmas clean Posts: 60
    I believe there is a connection, but I dont feel its that what you said about him being the bloke in betterman. When listening to betterman I dont feel that she could leave him and that h'ed be that 'broken'
    Hmmmm, need to re-listen to both for my theory, but not sure I could get one.
    And we're all allowed to dream of the next time we touch.
  • christmas clean
    christmas clean Posts: 60
    O.k I eat my words I agree it could be the same bloke from betterman as the lyrics in nothing man seem to sugest how much the tables have turned.
    And we're all allowed to dream of the next time we touch.
  • «¤tîg®ê§§¤»
    «¤tîg®ê§§¤» Posts: 5,137
    Ed wrote Betterman about his mum and step dad.
    he who forgets will be destined to remember
  • LedZepFan
    LedZepFan Posts: 1,009
    Uh doesnt nothingman come BEFORE betterman on vitalogy though?

    Maybe theyre both ABOUT Leatherman, but that would be kinda weird. I dont know, the connection the original poster made was pretty good.


    Whats the Alive trilogy?
    I've faced it, a life wasted, and I'm never going back again.

    Some die just to live.

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