Betterman/Nothingman question

Now this has probably already been discussed in the past, but if so I've never read it. So here goes......

Do you think theres a story behind Betterman that leads into Nothingman?
I know everyones got their own interpretation of these songs, but the way I see it,

Betterman is about a guy whos not doing the right thing by his partner (cheating, staying out etc.) she wants to break up, to find someone better.
"She dreams in colour", of a full life, not the black and white life shes in.

Then Nothingman talks of a guy whos broken up with girl and now finds himself on his own, empty, a nothingman.
"He who forgets, will be destined to remember" , he took her for granted and now lives the rest of his life with that thought.

It was the similar lines that got me thinking:

She loved him, yeah...she don't want to leave this way
She feeds him, yeah...that's why she'll be back again

from Betterman, and then:

Oh, she don't want him...
Oh, she won't feed him...after he's flown away...
Oh, into the sun...ah, into the sun...

from Nothingman.

Is this another set of songs similar to the Alive trilogy, if so whats the third song?
Any thoughts about all this??
"Fuck the Pessimists, Fuck em"

E. Vedder, Live at the Garden.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • armanHammerarmanHammer Posts: 471
    Leatherman? :p

    I really like your interpretation though.
    Riverside.. LA.. California. EV?
  • GreenMonkeyGreenMonkey Posts: 36
    Betterman and Nothingman were always related to each other, because the lyrics were so close. I think more evidence that they are partnered together is the fact that when PJ plays them they are usually played together and yes sometimes they through in Leatherman in for a third, but I don't believe it is lyrically contected.

    Sometimes I think the connection is as simple as they all contain the word and gender "man" in the titles.
    "It comes in a 8-pack where's the other 7. We've got band member up here they're dry ... We'd like some more beer, beer for the band and all our friends. Let's go." - Vedder (2005.09.22 Halifax)

    2003.06.29 ~ Montreal
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  • holly21holly21 Posts: 5
    i had put something in regards to your question about betterman/nothingman but i think that it is against the rules of the bbs (which i just read). reading that i totally understand why it is against the rules so i have removed it before it gets removed. as for your question i think you could be right, as it does sound like a progressing situation for the man in each song, but it could also just be coincidence. who knows?
  • Redwings16Redwings16 Posts: 1
    holly21 wrote:
    I dunno how true this is but I read somewhere that Betterman was about Eddie's mom (ie she is the woman in the song, wanting to get out of a bad relationship). If this is true I would guess that the connection between betterman and nothingman is coincidence only, but who knows.

    I downloaded, what I though was, an acoustic version of Betterman and before the song started Eddie said:

    "This is for the bastard who married my mom."

    I never made the correlation between Nothingman and Betterman though.
  • holly21holly21 Posts: 5
    oh no, i just removed that! lol.
  • I had never thought about that, but it sounds like a possibility, the lyrics are similar, and...who knows??
    Anyway, loved your interpretation :)

    But leatherman, I don't think so...and I don't like the song lol

    *****
    Speaking as a child of the 90's
  • artin90artin90 Posts: 66
    i dont think so because betterman was written when ed was still little and nothingman was written later.
    “ ahh…. Yaa…. If you trust me at all… if you wanna listen to me at all… which you certainly don’t have to. Speaking from experience I can tell you that things change. You could believe me, you don’t have to. They probably won’t change, unless you make them. The best way to change something around you, something you don’t like, is.. to change yourself. I don’t think you want other people changing you.. I think.. I think.. the only person you want changing you… is yourself. So if you ain’t happy…. If you’re reading magazines about generation x’s and thinking ‘ya im one of them’ well fuck that…. Don’t let anybody tell you who you are. No… No…. No one can tell me who I am. I can tell you who I am but that would be a long story… I can tell you who I am and it wouldn’t fit in a Rolling Stone…. It wouldn’t fit in a video… it wouldn’t… its my life…. Its your life. Youre the only one that knows who you are. I hope you know who you are. If you don’t know who you are, figure it out. Cause you are some body. And Im probably stating the obvious. But I just thought I would do it anyway. So if you fell like you got a piece of duct tape on your mouth, if you feel like you cant speak. Take it off, Speak up. Speak your Mind. Shout it Out. Let ‘em Hear Ya. Shout it out…… YAAA YAAAAA yAAAAAAAAAAA.” Eddie Vedder (Porch ’96 Randle Island 2)

    10/22/03
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  • DarkStarDarkStar Posts: 734
    artin90 wrote:
    i dont think so because betterman was written when ed was still little and nothingman was written later.

    what do you mean by little? and why would that necessarily mean the two songs aren't companion songs?

    ds
    And no one sings me lullabyes
    And no one makes me close my eyes
    So I throw the windows wide
    And call to you across the sky....
  • ronyrony Posts: 212
    I really didn't notice that until you pointed it out but now.............. its hard not to see a connection
  • RVM86RVM86 Posts: 76
    By the interpretation that Betterman308 wrote, I agree that there might be a correlation. Betterman was a Bad Radio song and I believe Jeff wrote Nothingman. So maybe the songs are similar through coincidence. Or maybe Jeff wrote Nothingman as a continuation of Betterman. Who knows?
    War In Iraq? Do It In My Name.
  • mohomoho Posts: 541
    was nothingman not written by jeff? if i remember correctly...
    So wouldn't that be a bit strange if betterman writtn by eddie when he was a wee lad had a connection to nothingman written by jeff?
    JUST PLAY THE F***ING NOTE!!!
  • mohomoho Posts: 541
    sorry i didn't see RVMs post above mine till too late all credit goes to he/her
    JUST PLAY THE F***ING NOTE!!!
  • I didnt realise that Jeff wrote Nothingman, but like RVM86 said, maybe it was written as an answer to Betterman.
    I know Eddie wrote Betterman way before Pearl Jam, but both songs come out on the same album, so the topic might have been discussed whilst writing the album.
    "Fuck the Pessimists, Fuck em"

    E. Vedder, Live at the Garden.
  • RVM86RVM86 Posts: 76
    Sorry guys, I think I was wrong. Jeff didn't write the lyrics to Nothingman, he wrote the music. Ed wrote the lyrics. Well, maybe I'm just going crazy. Sorry!!
    War In Iraq? Do It In My Name.
  • ||Release_Me||||Release_Me|| Posts: 1,871
    RVM86 wrote:
    Sorry guys, I think I was wrong. Jeff didn't write the lyrics to Nothingman, he wrote the music. Ed wrote the lyrics. Well, maybe I'm just going crazy. Sorry!!

    I was a bit worried that i knew nothing about this because i always thought Eddie wrote the lyrics (they seem like typical Eddie lyrics) and Jeff wrote the music.

    Either way, its a beautiful song and i agree that its linked to Betterman. I think they're on the same album for a reason.
    "This town deserves a better class of criminal... and I'm gonna give it to them."

  • I think one of the major factors of Pearl Jam's music is that it is, by their own design, very much up to personal interpretation. So, if your mind/heart makes a connection between the two, it reflects both your own experiences/mindset, and Ed's wonderful, universally personal lyrics.

    On the other hand, if you don't make a connection, it is, again, down to personal interpretation. Neither side is wrong -- both are right.

    I personally like to think of them as connected -- for me it adds a greater resonance to both songs. At the same time, I love them equally as separate entities, because, in and of themselves, they each tell a beautiful story.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • I believe there is a connection, but I dont feel its that what you said about him being the bloke in betterman. When listening to betterman I dont feel that she could leave him and that h'ed be that 'broken'
    Hmmmm, need to re-listen to both for my theory, but not sure I could get one.
    And we're all allowed to dream of the next time we touch.
  • O.k I eat my words I agree it could be the same bloke from betterman as the lyrics in nothing man seem to sugest how much the tables have turned.
    And we're all allowed to dream of the next time we touch.
  • Ed wrote Betterman about his mum and step dad.
    he who forgets will be destined to remember
  • LedZepFanLedZepFan Posts: 1,009
    Uh doesnt nothingman come BEFORE betterman on vitalogy though?

    Maybe theyre both ABOUT Leatherman, but that would be kinda weird. I dont know, the connection the original poster made was pretty good.


    Whats the Alive trilogy?
    I've faced it, a life wasted, and I'm never going back again.

    Some die just to live.
  • this doesnt really help with understanding nothingman but it was all I could find at shirt notice. Taken from http://www.twofeetthink.com

    Betterman
    "It's a new song, but it was written a long time ago. And it's dedicated to the bastard that married my mama" -Eddie Vedder (onstage in Atlanta, April 3, 1994)"Sometimes I think of how far I've come from the teenager sitting on the bed in San Diego writing 'Better Man' and wondering if anyone would ever even hear it." -Eddie Vedder (Los Angeles Times, December 22, 1996)


    "Nothingman" was written in an hour, and so I like listening to that 'cause it just happened and somehow captured a mood there, at least for me in the vocal. Any time I can nail down a song, a thought, in a half hour, that feels really good. -Eddie Vedder (Spin, December 1994)
    he who forgets will be destined to remember
  • LedZepFan wrote:
    Whats the Alive trilogy?

    go to this site, it explains it all:

    http://www.korat.co.il/pearljam/Ibook/Ten/ev_bio.html

    Its a great site, with some really interesting quotes from Eddie.
    "Fuck the Pessimists, Fuck em"

    E. Vedder, Live at the Garden.
  • STXLAXSTXLAX Posts: 46
    LedZepFan wrote:
    Uh doesnt nothingman come BEFORE betterman on vitalogy though?

    Maybe theyre both ABOUT Leatherman, but that would be kinda weird. I dont know, the connection the original poster made was pretty good.


    Whats the Alive trilogy?

    I could see that connection with leatherman. There's a guy who fucked up a relationship in Betterman or something cas he didn't know what he had. Then in nothingman he realizes how much he loved her and how much he needed her (and vise versa). He realizes that hes not much of a man without her. So he goes off on his own, roams from town to town and has weird habits like wearing all leather. The leather is a dependency for him. He needs it just like he needed the girl. It's sort of taking the place of the girl, but unlike the girl, leather will never leave him. So he's kinda left loving leather for the rest of his live. Eddie even compares himself to leatherman.

    Just think...why does this guy like leather so much?...there's gotta be a reason behind it
    I think it might be because he fucked up a relationship or something. Maybe this is a little far fetched but I thought I'd throw it out there.
    "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
    -Nietzsche

    EMPATHY
  • stonesgstringstonesgstring Posts: 4,613
    well he wrote nothingman just before he got married in '94 and in response to a question he was asked about the song he replied: i might bring something i know from the relationship to nothingman but im thinking of someone else going through it who fucked up. i didn't fuck up. the idea is about if you love someone and they love you, don't fuck up, cause you are left with less than nothing.

    hence the title then i guess, nothingman.

    im not sure about betterman. again he points out thats a scenerio where he creates a fictional character and can work around the frame.

    they could be linked, but then again, may be not.
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  • Actually, eddie wrote lyrics/music to nothingman...he wrote the music and lyrics for every song on vitalogy...As for the Alive trilogy, It goes, Once, Alive, Footsteps...those are the three!!! Leatherman's a great one, but definitely not part of that little collection there!!!
  • STXLAX wrote:
    I could see that connection with leatherman. There's a guy who fucked up a relationship in Betterman or something cas he didn't know what he had. Then in nothingman he realizes how much he loved her and how much he needed her (and vise versa). He realizes that hes not much of a man without her. So he goes off on his own, roams from town to town and has weird habits like wearing all leather. The leather is a dependency for him. He needs it just like he needed the girl. It's sort of taking the place of the girl, but unlike the girl, leather will never leave him. So he's kinda left loving leather for the rest of his live. Eddie even compares himself to leatherman.

    Just think...why does this guy like leather so much?...there's gotta be a reason behind it
    I think it might be because he fucked up a relationship or something. Maybe this is a little far fetched but I thought I'd throw it out there.

    I'm of the opinion that Leatherman truely has nothing to do with betterman and nothingman. It is pretty interesting that the three are so often played together though.

    As for why the guy wears so much leather...Well, for one thing he dies a long time ago...in the 1880's...remember. I always picture Leatherman as kind of a hermit in a cave in the woods type. So obviously he wouldn't have a job, couldn't buy fabric, so he made all his clothes from the skins of the animals he killed for food. People started calling him Leatherman, cause no one knew his name and thats all he wore.

    Hmm...just a thought.
    Nature has its own religion...
  • Lost In OhioLost In Ohio Posts: 6,911
    Then Nothingman talks of a guy whos broken up with girl and now finds himself on his own, empty, a nothingman.
    "He who forgets, will be destined to remember" , he took her for granted and now lives the rest of his life with that thought.

    For some reason, I was listening to Nothingman a lot in September of 2001. I got to the line "And he who forgets will be destined to remember.." and thought of it as "if you forget about some single emotional event, then you'll end up regretting it because you can't forget it.." or something like that.

    FWIW, I was also listening to the Las Vegas version of untitled (intro to MFC) a lot then as well, and got to the line "oh everyone's confused, they're all __forget this part__ in their rooms.." and it was weird how true THAT bit was as well. I was living in a college dormitory at the time, and everyone was just in their rooms glued to the TV, as i'm sure the situation was in all colleges across the country.

    Is this another set of songs similar to the Alive trilogy, if so whats the third song?
    Any thoughts about all this??

    I'm not sure, but FWIW, i've heard that Rearviewmirror might be a part 2 of MFC.. in the first part they want to go for a drive, and in the 2nd part it's getting away from something nasty.
    Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
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