#47 - Musk/trump/Vance

mace1229 said:

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HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 

You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  

I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 

I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.

if you're resisting change that positively affects people's lives because of the opinions of far-(direction) anything, you are succumbing to the propaganda. I, and I believe most intelligent and reasonable people, don't believe all opinions on trans issues makes you a trans hater, etc. Some opinions can. But most are just a natural calming of the pendulum. All progressive agendas are going to push as hard as they can in the direction they want to go, and people perceive that as going too far. But they won't get ANYWHERE if they don't ask for more. You're always going to get less in society than you ask for. 

I wouldn't consider myself resistance to change. I was against gay marriage, like the majority of the country, 15 or 20 years ago. Now I don't care.
What I was more referring to that irritates me is the instant jumping to conclusions instead of understanding the rationale thought someone might have. 
It was said a few times in the responses before yours than separating biological males from women's sports is reasonable and people are ok with that. but I've been called pretty nasty things as well as others here every time its come up for simply saying for competitive and safety reasons, biological males should not compete in women's sports. And I've been called a lot worse, including a Neo nazi for comments as "radical" as women's sports. Was actually called a nazi for correcting a post falsely claiming a Texas law was making it illegal to be trans. I wasn't anti-texts enough to not care the information was false, so that made me a nazi. Thats what I meant by conforming to their ideas, I think differently so many here will immediately label me as racist or sexist, and have said or implied so many times.
To me checking a box on a government form isn't a big deal. Maybe it is to some people, and that's fine. We can have a discussion about the impact it can have. But let's not get carried away and say trans is becoming illegal because of it and put labels on people who disagree again. 
I think many of the hot topics around this subject (inducing the bathrooms) there is actually a reasonable request being made. But instead of discussing the topic, hate slurs are used instead to rebut a comment and ignore any concerns.
When I think back to high school I'm amazed how far we've come. Using homophobic or transphobic slurs were the norm. Same-sex couples weren't allowed at school dances, etc. Declaring your sex on a passport or when purchasing a gun seems like not a big deal. Am I wrong? How often do we fill out official government forms and who sees that information? It's not going to affect anyone's daily life to declare a sex when doing taxes, getting a passport, buying a gun, etc. The government collects your information on everything, Sex is one of many things they ask about. Certainly doesn't seem like a step towards making it illegal to be trans, which there have been serious claims about in the last 2 days.

Bentleyspop said:

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Gern Blansten said:

lindamarie73 said:

We just found out that a tenant  in one of the buildings we own in Shitcago was just grabbed by ICE.  This POS from Venezula hasn’t paid rent in over 15 months!! I am also hearing his “wife” and spawn were snatched up 2 for association.  Even though  we are out almost 20k, we were never getting that $$ back from these deadbeat illegals anyway, we are elated they are outy 5000!!!  I love seeing this recent  swift ACTION by ICE directly making a positive impact on tax paying AMERICANS!!!  

Don’t really get much of that in rotten brain infested Shitago unless the feds step in…

Smart move to invest in a place that rents to such rotten brains.

Slumlords will utilize the IRS loopholes and write off any and all losses. Real and/or imagined.

lindamarie73 said:

We just found out that a tenant  in one of the buildings we own in Shitcago was just grabbed by ICE.  This POS from Venezula hasn’t paid rent in over 15 months!! I am also hearing his “wife” and spawn were snatched up 2 for association.  Even though  we are out almost 20k, we were never getting that $$ back from these deadbeat illegals anyway, we are elated they are outy 5000!!!  I love seeing this recent  swift ACTION by ICE directly making a positive impact on tax paying AMERICANS!!!  

Don’t really get much of that in rotten brain infested Shitago unless the feds step in…

lindamarie73 said:

We just found out that a tenant  in one of the buildings we own in Shitcago was just grabbed by ICE.  This POS from Venezula hasn’t paid rent in over 15 months!! I am also hearing his “wife” and spawn were snatched up 2 for association.  Even though  we are out almost 20k, we were never getting that $$ back from these deadbeat illegals anyway, we are elated they are outy 5000!!!  I love seeing this recent  swift ACTION by ICE directly making a positive impact on tax paying AMERICANS!!!  

Don’t really get much of that in rotten brain infested Shitago unless the feds step in…