#47 - Musk/trump/Vance

We need to shut the border down to stop the flow of criminals into our country. 

We're also going to release 1500 domestic terrorists back into their communities. 

We're very serious about cracking down on violent crime. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rtvEDP4UTI

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

I have a question for the Americans here...  I've always understood Republican / Conservative supporters being very Pro police. Given that Trump recently pardoned / released the J6 criminals... do American police officers etc. still support Trump / Republicans?

I can't imagine the notion of cops still supporting a man who released criminals who struck and caused the death of other cops along with the other crimes they committed. 

oh yeah...it's a cult. The police union supported trump this election and they'll probably support him again when he usurps the constitution and demands to run again.

considering the pardon frenzy he is on...  what is the advantage to the policing world to support MAGA?  

No advantage whatsoever. Unfortunately our fire/police/education workers and all susceptible to the cult teachings...that voting GOP is good for them because liberals are bad.

Once again...the GOP has brilliantly convinced blue collar workers that they are the party for them. Even though the GOP continually cuts funding for their salaries and benefits in order to support tax breaks for the wealthy.

Firstly, thanks for responding  

Second.. and I know this may take more time....  we here in Canada often discuss Trump... and what I constantly think of is his insinuation that he will make america great again.  But that said, he was already in power for 4 years.   So based on those 4 years.. and looking at blue collar workers and emergency service workers....   is there anything he did policy wise that did in fact make life better for emergency service workers and the lower to middle class?  And I ask this putting all bias aside. 

He oversaw the growth of the economy that started in the second term of Obama. Wage Growth, low unemployment, etc. so that was good. I mean, I guess he didn’t pass bad policy that ruined that, so W there I guess. 

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 

You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  

I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 

You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  

I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 

I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.

Maybe it's heresy in liberal parts to say that biological men shouldn't compete against women, but I believe in that.  it's just too much of an unfair advantage.  Unisex bathrooms are perfectly fine and that's how many places have figured out how to solve that issue.  Is it 100% fair to a trans person that they may not be able to compete in a sport?  No, it's not but when fair to someone become unfair to the rest, then that's where you have problems.  

Other than that issue, it's all purely fear mongering.  Trump literally said that you send your boy to school and he comes as a girl after the school operated on him.  It's absurd.  That's fear mongering.  

Damn, I missed the InPawguration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd0bRuGC29U

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 

You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  

I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 

I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.

Maybe it's heresy in liberal parts to say that biological men shouldn't compete against women, but I believe in that.  it's just too much of an unfair advantage.  Unisex bathrooms are perfectly fine and that's how many places have figured out how to solve that issue.  Is it 100% fair to a trans person that they may not be able to compete in a sport?  No, it's not but when fair to someone become unfair to the rest, then that's where you have problems.  

Other than that issue, it's all purely fear mongering.  Trump literally said that you send your boy to school and he comes as a girl after the school operated on him.  It's absurd.  That's fear mongering.  

exactly...I don't know anyone who is ok with men in women's sports or vice versa. Yet here we have people seemingly acting like everyone here is for it.

This is a good example of the GOP making an issue out of nothing. 

FTR, I'm not overly concerned about biological woman competing with men.  I guess except for figure skating or something.  Other than that, no issues with being a kicker or doing anything else.  It's not an advantage.  

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 

 But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 

I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.

I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  

No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 

You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  

I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 

I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.

if you're resisting change that positively affects people's lives because of the opinions of far-(direction) anything, you are succumbing to the propaganda. I, and I believe most intelligent and reasonable people, don't believe all opinions on trans issues makes you a trans hater, etc. Some opinions can. But most are just a natural calming of the pendulum. All progressive agendas are going to push as hard as they can in the direction they want to go, and people perceive that as going too far. But they won't get ANYWHERE if they don't ask for more. You're always going to get less in society than you ask for.