#47 - Musk/trump/Vance

Merkin Baller said:

Does the context of Musk pushing far right views like replacement theory on social media factor into this, or are we only looking at this one incident in a vacuum? 

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Well Trump just threw a number of Executive Orders against the wall on day one. They do not have the power of law, but they set in motion a number of potential tariffs and actions. He is well counseled. Most of his actions in the past have withstood judicial scrutiny. The USTR will be busy this year. You may agree or disagree with his actions, but my objective point of view is that he knows what he is doing. 

Your point of view is messed up then. You can't EO away a constitutional right.

Not at all. The EOs set in motion fact finding that results in rulemaking.  Which constitutional right do you speak of? I am still digesting all of the language.

Er what?  EO's don't lead to legislation.  They never do.  EO's always seem to be the end, not the means to an end.  

The problem with EO's has always been that it circumvents the balance of power between the Branches.  

And if you are asking about Constitutional right, well just look at his current attempt to slash what most scholars and historical precedent consider settled and clear law, that of the 14th A and birthright citizenship.  How did he just EO away part of an Amendment?

Get_Right said:

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Well Trump just threw a number of Executive Orders against the wall on day one. They do not have the power of law, but they set in motion a number of potential tariffs and actions. He is well counseled. Most of his actions in the past have withstood judicial scrutiny. The USTR will be busy this year. You may agree or disagree with his actions, but my objective point of view is that he knows what he is doing. 

Your point of view is messed up then. You can't EO away a constitutional right.

Not at all. The EOs set in motion fact finding that results in rulemaking.  Which constitutional right do you speak of? I am still digesting all of the language.

Er what?  EO's don't lead to legislation.  They never do.  EO's always seem to be the end, not the means to an end.  

The problem with EO's has always been that it circumvents the balance of power between the Branches.  

And if you are asking about Constitutional right, well just look at his current attempt to slash what most scholars and historical precedent consider settled and clear law, that of the 14th A and birthright citizenship.  How did he just EO away part of an Amendment?

EOs do lead to governmental action, perhaps not formal law, but administrative action that has an impact. Ask anyone that imports goods from China. He is going through the fact finding process and is well advised by his lawyers, at least on the trade matters. These EOs lay out his short term agenda. Some those initiatives will result in action, some may not. 14th amendment right to due process has always been the subject much debate. I am not aware of the impact on birthright citizenship but I am still digesting the content of the EOs.  Can you send a link to the content? I keep an open mind and am not a Trump fan, as I know he is a deplorable human being. But I acknowledge that he has hit the ground running and may have a way to accomplish his goals without the pork of congress slowing him down.

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

mace1229 said:

mickeyrat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I’m all for calling this shit out when warranted, but simply raising one’s hand does not automatically make a nazi salute. We all know how a snapshot can be used to manipulate. Is there video of a prolonged heil?

yes. slaps his left chest with his right hand and immediately snaps out. THEN turns around for the folks behind and does it again.

judge for yourself.

https://www.threads.net/@marcbroklawski/post/DFEEQVwSXls?xmt=AQGzM_ehLeF_j3Og3cIylDhm_HU2XX7q0PhJMnH715S-tw

I first watched without audio and thought that's clearly what he's doing.
Then I watched with the audio and he's saying "my heart goes out to you" as he puts his hand over his heart. In context makes a big difference. 

snaps the salute TWICE  crowd goes nuts in approval. THEN puts his hand over his heart a third time to make that statement..

as you said. context.

The clip you shared shows him putting his hand over his heart each time. 

and what exactly did he do the first two times? because you pointing out he said my heart goes out to you was the end of the clip.

all good though.

I see you.

Not sure if you hacked into my camera or what that means, but ok.
I don't recall the nazi salute starting with a hand over the heart. You said he saluted twice, THEN put his hand over his heart. That is incorrect, he did it each time. And the third time says "My heart goes out to you." Definitely weird. But if you ask me was he just being socially awkward, or doing a very poor disguise of a nazi salute, I'm going with awkward. 
Why put the hand over the heart? Why say "my heart goes out to you"? Did he forget he was on TV and that's what he came up with on the spot?
Neither of us knows for sure. You have your opinion and I have mine.

jesus fucking christ. hand over heart to start. facist salute. hand over heart facist salute to the folks behind. crowd goes wild. THEN simply places hand over heart and says my heart goes out to you or whatever.

https://www.threads.net/@groovycathers2/post/DFFDayoI6a5?xmt=AQGzQXyYxdwtxfquugkgl5CA6rqRz1-BuKa1gBv_4jlq4A

https://www.wired.com/story/neo-nazis-love-elon-musk-nazi-like-salutes-trumps-inauguration/

Get_Right said:

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Well Trump just threw a number of Executive Orders against the wall on day one. They do not have the power of law, but they set in motion a number of potential tariffs and actions. He is well counseled. Most of his actions in the past have withstood judicial scrutiny. The USTR will be busy this year. You may agree or disagree with his actions, but my objective point of view is that he knows what he is doing. 

Your point of view is messed up then. You can't EO away a constitutional right.

Not at all. The EOs set in motion fact finding that results in rulemaking.  Which constitutional right do you speak of? I am still digesting all of the language.

Er what?  EO's don't lead to legislation.  They never do.  EO's always seem to be the end, not the means to an end.  

The problem with EO's has always been that it circumvents the balance of power between the Branches.  

And if you are asking about Constitutional right, well just look at his current attempt to slash what most scholars and historical precedent consider settled and clear law, that of the 14th A and birthright citizenship.  How did he just EO away part of an Amendment?

EOs do lead to governmental action, perhaps not formal law, but administrative action that has an impact. Ask anyone that imports goods from China. He is going through the fact finding process and is well advised by his lawyers, at least on the trade matters. These EOs lay out his short term agenda. Some those initiatives will result in action, some may not. 14th amendment right to due process has always been the subject much debate. I am not aware of the impact on birthright citizenship but I am still digesting the content of the EOs.  Can you send a link to the content? I keep an open mind and am not a Trump fan, as I know he is a deplorable human being. But I acknowledge that he has hit the ground running and may have a way to accomplish his goals without the pork of congress slowing him down.

Well of course they lead to gov't action, they are EO's.  But they are operating outside the bounds of the Founder's Intent, and part and parcel of the continuing growth of the executive branch while the Legislative and Judicial abdicate their roles in gov't.  

Here is the link, and yeah it's easy to "hit the ground running" when you are not encumbered by the Constitution or other barriers to you being the sole decision maker in the country.  

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/21/trump-birthright-citizenship-14th-amendment

Right. This is just an agenda, the checks and balances, special interest groups, and the media will decide which initiatives move forward. Do you think it is right that someone illegally enters the US, has a child on US soil, and then the entire family is eligible for all rights conferred on a US citizen? I am not sure where I stand on that in a vacuum. Emigrating from a military state or a war torn country? That makes sense to protect them. But I am not so sure that is the majority. It is a delicate topic, one that I am undecided on.

You are dealing with an NYC landlord that knows how to work the system and he is well counseled. Like I said, I am not a fan of Trump as a human being, but he knows how to work the system. The founders are 250 years removed from our current state. They never could have imagined our digital age or the judicial expansion of our constitutional amendments. I have said it before, but the prospect of factions in Madison's Federalist paper No. 10 is happening. The government, at almost all levels, is ruled by special interest. Everybody knows somebody that can solve your problem or push your agenda, if you donate enough money. Do not hate the player, hate the game.

mickeyrat said:

mickeyrat said:

Get_Right said:

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get_Right said:

Well Trump just threw a number of Executive Orders against the wall on day one. They do not have the power of law, but they set in motion a number of potential tariffs and actions. He is well counseled. Most of his actions in the past have withstood judicial scrutiny. The USTR will be busy this year. You may agree or disagree with his actions, but my objective point of view is that he knows what he is doing. 

Your point of view is messed up then. You can't EO away a constitutional right.

Not at all. The EOs set in motion fact finding that results in rulemaking.  Which constitutional right do you speak of? I am still digesting all of the language.

Er what?  EO's don't lead to legislation.  They never do.  EO's always seem to be the end, not the means to an end.  

The problem with EO's has always been that it circumvents the balance of power between the Branches.  

And if you are asking about Constitutional right, well just look at his current attempt to slash what most scholars and historical precedent consider settled and clear law, that of the 14th A and birthright citizenship.  How did he just EO away part of an Amendment?

EOs do lead to governmental action, perhaps not formal law, but administrative action that has an impact. Ask anyone that imports goods from China. He is going through the fact finding process and is well advised by his lawyers, at least on the trade matters. These EOs lay out his short term agenda. Some those initiatives will result in action, some may not. 14th amendment right to due process has always been the subject much debate. I am not aware of the impact on birthright citizenship but I am still digesting the content of the EOs.  Can you send a link to the content? I keep an open mind and am not a Trump fan, as I know he is a deplorable human being. But I acknowledge that he has hit the ground running and may have a way to accomplish his goals without the pork of congress slowing him down.

Well of course they lead to gov't action, they are EO's.  But they are operating outside the bounds of the Founder's Intent, and part and parcel of the continuing growth of the executive branch while the Legislative and Judicial abdicate their roles in gov't.  

Here is the link, and yeah it's easy to "hit the ground running" when you are not encumbered by the Constitution or other barriers to you being the sole decision maker in the country.  

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/21/trump-birthright-citizenship-14th-amendment

Right. This is just an agenda, the checks and balances, special interest groups, and the media will decide which initiatives move forward. Do you think it is right that someone illegally enters the US, has a child on US soil, and then the entire family is eligible for all rights conferred on a US citizen? I am not sure where I stand on that in a vacuum. Emigrating from a military state or a war torn country? That makes sense to protect them. But I am not so sure that is the majority. It is a delicate topic, one that I am undecided on.

You are dealing with an NYC landlord that knows how to work the system and he is well counseled. Like I said, I am not a fan of Trump as a human being, but he knows how to work the system. The founders are 250 years removed from our current state. They never could have imagined our digital age or the judicial expansion of our constitutional amendments. I have said it before, but the prospect of factions in Madison's Federalist paper No. 10 is happening. The government, at almost all levels, is ruled by special interest. Everybody knows somebody that can solve your problem or push your agenda, if you donate enough money. Do not hate the player, hate the game.

ANY non citizen found within the borders of the US or a protectorate are granted the rights as outlined in the constitution . documented or not. its as simple as due process. citizens have gotten caught up in hamfisted actions by the government.  due process helps sort out those errors.