---President Elect Musk and Convicted Felon Donald J Trump---

Get_Right said:

BF25394 said:

Get_Right said:

The fact that this is even an issue, from either side, is part of why I am disgusted with the entire process. Bring your passport, your license, state issued ID, you welfare card, your food stamp card, your social security card, and vote. How this process is not digital, encrypted, possibly remote, and 99% tamper proof in 2024? It just makes me scratch my head. I have three factor verification to pay my mortgage every month but we still have mail in and paper ballots? We have Apple, Microsoft, Oracle and Tesla etc. but we cannot figure out a verifiable voting process? It's no wonder we are often the laughing stock of the world.

Yes, by all means let's spend a ton of money "fixing" a system that's very secure and not broken and, in the process, make it vulnerable in new and different ways.

For a nation that is supposedly the laughingstock of the world, a lot of people seem to be willing to go through hell to come here.

How can you say it is not broken with allegations from both sides, empirical evidence and criminal convictions to the contrary? Why do you think people want to come here? I can guarantee you it is not because of our secure voting system and the representation of immigrants in the popular elections.

No. Both sides don't. They just don't. If you think the parties are the same on this, you are woefully uninformed. One party encourages all eligible voters to vote and does literally nothing to make it harder for eligible voters to vote. One party is dedicated to trying to keep eligible voters from voting, with a special emphasis on making it harder for people who are more likely to support their opponents to vote. Criminal convictions in rare circumstances of attempts to vote illegally are not proof that the system doesn't work any more that criminal convictions for embezzlement are proof that our laws against embezzlement don't work. Come on, man.

People want to come here for many reasons, including economic, social and political reasons. But, yes, one of the reasons why many people want to come here is that they are subject to political repression in their home countries. Do you think that many of the thousands of people emigrating here from China aren't motivated in part by a desire not to live in a repressive one-party state? Or that many of the thousands of people emigrating here from unstable countries in the developing world aren't motivated in part by a desire to live in our stable (for the moment) democracy?

The Juggler said:

Get_Right said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Get_Right said:

All good, I appreciate a good conversation that is articulated properly. I am taking it all in. All candidates make big promises during a campaign. How many actually come to fruition? You just listed the things you dislike about Trump's platform, but where are the good things from Kamala's platform? I feel like this election is more defense than offense. Is it really just about keeping Trump out or does Kamala have something good to say? So far I am not hearing it.

Why doesn’t eg. climate change matter to you?

Your way of arguing is very weird if you just look at the two candidates. 

Well for better or worse this is what we have. Much to my chagrin, global warming has been a platform that many candidates have advocated. Unfortunately, little gets done at the federal level and the states that are committed to the environment seem to make more progress.

If it is much to your chagrin, why not vote for the party who is committed to treating it seriously? The reason not much gets done at the federal level is because the Republican party is lead by a dope who thinks climate change is a hoax. They cannot unilaterally make change happen. 

Unfortunately, I think big business wins either way.  Call me a cynic.

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Get_Right said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Get_Right said:

All good, I appreciate a good conversation that is articulated properly. I am taking it all in. All candidates make big promises during a campaign. How many actually come to fruition? You just listed the things you dislike about Trump's platform, but where are the good things from Kamala's platform? I feel like this election is more defense than offense. Is it really just about keeping Trump out or does Kamala have something good to say? So far I am not hearing it.

Why doesn’t eg. climate change matter to you?

Your way of arguing is very weird if you just look at the two candidates. 

Well for better or worse this is what we have. Much to my chagrin, global warming has been a platform that many candidates have advocated. Unfortunately, little gets done at the federal level and the states that are committed to the environment seem to make more progress.

Not enough is being done in Sweden also. 

I still vote for a party who WANTS TO DO THINGS and acknowledge the problem and not the far right racist party who denies it. 

I can agree with you that voting republican in the US is likely to be less beneficial to the environment.

Get_Right said:

The Juggler said:

Get_Right said:

All good, I appreciate a good conversation that is articulated properly. I am taking it all in. All candidates make big promises during a campaign. How many actually come to fruition? You just listed the things you dislike about Trump's platform, but where are the good things from Kamala's platform? I feel like this election is more defense than offense. Is it really just about keeping Trump out or does Kamala have something good to say? So far I am not hearing it.

For me, I think this administration deserves credit for how they have navigated the storm and she, as an extension, deserves to be rewarded four more years. GDP is up. Unemployment is down. Inflation rate is down. Gas prices are down. Stock market regularly hits all time highs. We are not at war with anyone. Border crossings are down and she will sign the immigration bill Trump killed. Like...what are we talking about here? We are clearly moving in the right direction and going backwards to Trump who has terrible plans for everything makes no sense to me what so ever.

I like her ideas on how to jump start housing. Tax credits for builders to build new affordable homes makes sense to me. I would like that immigration bill signed into law. I would like the fight to restore Roe continued. 

Bottom line for me, and anyone else for that matter, is Donald Trump essentially tried to throw my vote in the trash 4 years ago. I take that personally. Who cares if this is more about defense than offense? He is a threat to democracy. He is a threat to our economy.  This should be clear as day to most rational observers.

You make salient points, all taken into consideration. 

Spiritual_Chaos said:

BF25394 said:

Get_Right said:

The fact that this is even an issue, from either side, is part of why I am disgusted with the entire process. Bring your passport, your license, state issued ID, you welfare card, your food stamp card, your social security card, and vote. How this process is not digital, encrypted, possibly remote, and 99% tamper proof in 2024? It just makes me scratch my head. I have three factor verification to pay my mortgage every month but we still have mail in and paper ballots? We have Apple, Microsoft, Oracle and Tesla etc. but we cannot figure out a verifiable voting process? It's no wonder we are often the laughing stock of the world.

Yes, by all means let's spend a ton of money "fixing" a system that's very secure and not broken and, in the process, make it vulnerable in new and different ways.

For a nation that is supposedly the laughingstock of the world, a lot of people seem to be willing to go through hell to come here.

A lot of people went to see the second Transformers movie also

Now there's the SC I love.... dropping the obscure movie reference that I don't get but I know is funny. 

https://www.threads.net/@wired/post/DBw4V_wSQkj?xmt=AQGzBQJnw-_5y-H3QtTlTKISlqGkjNjcRfgTdjNgBrLqFw

Get_Right said:

BF25394 said:

Get_Right said:

The fact that this is even an issue, from either side, is part of why I am disgusted with the entire process. Bring your passport, your license, state issued ID, you welfare card, your food stamp card, your social security card, and vote. How this process is not digital, encrypted, possibly remote, and 99% tamper proof in 2024? It just makes me scratch my head. I have three factor verification to pay my mortgage every month but we still have mail in and paper ballots? We have Apple, Microsoft, Oracle and Tesla etc. but we cannot figure out a verifiable voting process? It's no wonder we are often the laughing stock of the world.

Yes, by all means let's spend a ton of money "fixing" a system that's very secure and not broken and, in the process, make it vulnerable in new and different ways.

For a nation that is supposedly the laughingstock of the world, a lot of people seem to be willing to go through hell to come here.

How can you say it is not broken with allegations from both sides, empirical evidence and criminal convictions to the contrary? Why do you think people want to come here? I can guarantee you it is not because of our secure voting system and the representation of immigrants in the popular elections.

Earlier today you asked me which institutions he threatened and allies he is putting at risk.  You seem to have been unaware of those things.  I answered but I don't know if you agree or disagree. 

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

mrussel1 said:

Get_Right said:

Go Beavers said:

Get_Right said:

I do not endorse or know very much about this site, but it is clear to me that shenanigans are happening in every state and in both parties. Even if only half of it is true.

https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/#choose-a-state

Criminal convictions and judicial findings of fact on both sides, and in almost every state. The system is broken.  

And yet I get criticized for being disenfranchised with the entire process. Politics is the dirtiest of businesses in the US.  Maybe used car sales is first. It has become a battle of slinging dirt and special interests on both sides. I do not hate the players, I hate the game. I will vote, but I don't really feel it will make a difference one way or the other. And that is sad.

The Heritage Foundation’s goal is to make you feel disenfranchised and apathetic. 

And the Washington Post and other liberal media's goal is to make me feel like I should hate Trump as a Nazi dictator. Who should I beleive?

Are you being serious? You are incapable of listening to his words,  understanding history and drawing your own conclusions? 

Serious about not believing everything the media or a candidate says. It is just another sales pitch to get the job. Frankly the comparisons to Nazi Germany make me sick. 

The question isn't whether you believe we are down a Nazi path.  Hyperbole runs rampant in an election.  The question is whether he is a threat to it institutions and allies. Or is Harris.   In that,  you should be able to draw your own conclusions simply by listening both of them speak and listening to their surrogates  

Direct information is actually available to you. 

There is simply no way to reach the other side on this. When 45 says he will be a dictator on day 1, his defense is he was joking and the believers believe 

 He gets the votes from the traditional gop voters and a new breed of macho tough guys who never used to vote.

Which is why he is tough to beat, when also considering the gop electoral college advantage 

The forum hasn't been discussing the polling as much as previous election. Have you been following the cross tabs? This seems to be trumps best polling in his 3 elections?

I have been watching.  I won't go so far as saying I'm not worried,  but I'm not super worried.  Everything in the cross tabs and polling in general is based on what a pollster believes is the electoral makeup.  If they get that wrong,  the results are wrong. I think after 2020 they over- weighted the GOP vote and we saw that in 2022. The one thing that makes me a little nervous is the movement in the last month.  If your methodology is consistent,  even if wrong,  you have to honor movement.  But I've been saying for a few weeks that's it's all turnout and I think the Ds have a better ground game.

 You had me a little optimistic there for a second. I agree, it’s the recent movement that’s been concerning, and difficult to understand