Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,130
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    We need a floor vote at the Democratic National Convention with several potential candidates being nominated. I'd take the following, if only because they have integrity and can communicate the policies of a dem administration. Anyone of the below would destroy POOTWH in a debate but he'd run scared and refuse to debate. Not likely to see a floor fight for the nomination either. UGH.

    Gina Raimondo
    Gavin Newsome
    Pete Buttigieg
    Kamala Harris
    Josh Shapiro
    I'm surprised you are leaving Gretchen Whitmer off of this list.  I would say it's between Newsome and Whitmer, personally.  I really like Wes Boyd, gov of MD, but he's a little young so maybe not quite his time.  

    I think we need to think of this as the gift it is.  We are lucky this debate came so early.  The polls will drop for Biden, as we saw in the post debate poll.  That will ramp up the pressure on Joe to retire, which he probably should.  
    I thought of Gretchen and then thought of her history with Michigan and how it’d be too easy for repubs to paint her in a bad light. Something about all those red hat open carry people with rifles slung over their shoulders carrying on about communism or some such nonsense. Bottom line, add her to the list along with a few others I’ve probably missed. Nominate a fucking stool or chair at this point. But an actual floor race at the convention would be fascinating.
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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Biden
    ikiT said:
    Wes Moore works too.

    I like him,  but he's first term and 45. Young. 
  • MayDay10
    MayDay10 Posts: 11,893
    edited June 2024
    Biden
    tbergs said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    Here's the "takeaway" (since that's the latest buzz word) as I see it, from tonight's debate:  
    In the debate earlier this evening there occurred what I see as a defining moment as to where we are at regarding the highest political level in the U.S.  That moment happened when two old men running for the highest office in our country started to argue about their golfing handicaps.  Right out of my mouth came the words, "Are you shitting me?"  That moment was both embarrassing and disgraceful.

    Now, granted, anyone with half a brain (and, amazingly, there apparently are a hell of a lot of people with less than that) will understand why Joe Biden is the better choice of candidates for president of the United States.  He may be old, he may be tired, but he is not a bald-faced liar, he's not a convicted felon, and he still believes in democracy.  But that said, we as a nation are at an extremely low point in our history.  Maybe not the lowest ever, but when we reach a low of this magnitude, it can only mean trouble.  It's unsettling to me to think about how serious the situation is.  It's simply that bad.

    I watched five minutes and had to turn it off.  Biden sounds like an old feeble man.  Is he the smarter of the two?   Yes.  Does he look like he can lead the country?  No.

    This is why Kennedy beat Nixon all those years ago.  Perception.
    Did it look like Trump can lead this country? I mean, I think we can all acknowledge Joe is old, but Trump is a criminally convicted lying moron with no plan for this country. The fact Republicans are taking laps because Trump was Trump is pathetic. No Democrat is taking laps because Biden was Biden and showed his age. It's ridiculous that anyone outside the red hats would celebrate that performance last night. Jesus Christ, what a disaster indeed.
    Yes, it did look like he can lead.  
    Through the lens of anyone out there who can possibly be undecided or wading into the Trump pool... Trump looked a lot stronger and forceful than Biden.   It also helped that the format was to turn the microphone off, so Trump never appeared to look like a cruel bully.   Objectively, that was Trump's best debate performance to-date.   Trump bombastically says he will end Ukraine.  You kind of almost believe him going up against a punching bag/tomato can opponent.  

    on the other hand, Biden is inspiring zero people to go to the polls.  The only motivation is to keep trump out.  It is a strong motivation and will get a lot of votes... but this thing is going to come down to 1,000s of people in a handful of states.  Biden is a sunk ship in this.  They have been saying he is too old and frail, and that was given full life for 90 minutes last night and that is going to be on everyone's mind all Summer.



    This actually may turn out as a good thing because it was so severe, that it might force change to the ticket, and this is the time to do it.  2 Months before the convention.  Get someone younger and with some vigor, but not someone too idealistic.  
    Post edited by MayDay10 on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Biden
    mickeyrat said:
    Biden is on the ballot in every state.
    to switch that now? 5 months before the election and only a couple before state deadlines for ballot inclusion?

    not possible. so just stop.
    Biden is not officially nominated.  I thought Alabama and Ohio were the only two states that had deadlines before teh convention, and they were trying to amend that. 
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    ikiT said:
    Wes Moore works too.

    I like him,  but he's first term and 45. Young. 
    so was that other guy...
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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Biden
    Lerxst1992 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    We need a floor vote at the Democratic National Convention with several potential candidates being nominated. I'd take the following, if only because they have integrity and can communicate the policies of a dem administration. Anyone of the below would destroy POOTWH in a debate but he'd run scared and refuse to debate. Not likely to see a floor fight for the nomination either. UGH.

    Gina Raimondo
    Gavin Newsome
    Pete Buttigieg
    Kamala Harris
    Josh Shapiro
    I'm surprised you are leaving Gretchen Whitmer off of this list.  I would say it's between Newsome and Whitmer, personally.  I really like Wes Boyd, gov of MD, but he's a little young so maybe not quite his time.  

    I think we need to think of this as the gift it is.  We are lucky this debate came so early.  The polls will drop for Biden, as we saw in the post debate poll.  That will ramp up the pressure on Joe to retire, which he probably should.  

    The only path for a new candidate would be a serious health issue or Joe decided to retire gracefully. 

    Although the below is a fine list, not sure how Harris getting pushed aside wouldn’t be a second major attack by MAGA

    Gina Raimondo , no name recognition 

    Gavin Newsome, YES

    Pete Buttigieg, In Canada maybe but this country is far from ready to elect him

    Kamala Harris

    Josh Shapiro, excellent politician, but given his ethnicity, and especially in this red green insanity within the Democratic Party, unfortunately not a chance.

    edit, forgot Whitmer, but similar to Pete and Josh, not in racist America.
    The premise is Joe withdraws.  He can't be pushed aside because I believe Joe has won enough regular delegates to secure the nomination.  But we would have to check that against the super delegate count. 
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,540
    Biden
    Lerxst1992 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    We need a floor vote at the Democratic National Convention with several potential candidates being nominated. I'd take the following, if only because they have integrity and can communicate the policies of a dem administration. Anyone of the below would destroy POOTWH in a debate but he'd run scared and refuse to debate. Not likely to see a floor fight for the nomination either. UGH.

    Gina Raimondo
    Gavin Newsome
    Pete Buttigieg
    Kamala Harris
    Josh Shapiro
    I'm surprised you are leaving Gretchen Whitmer off of this list.  I would say it's between Newsome and Whitmer, personally.  I really like Wes Boyd, gov of MD, but he's a little young so maybe not quite his time.  

    I think we need to think of this as the gift it is.  We are lucky this debate came so early.  The polls will drop for Biden, as we saw in the post debate poll.  That will ramp up the pressure on Joe to retire, which he probably should.  

    The only path for a new candidate would be a serious health issue or Joe decided to retire gracefully. 

    Although the below is a fine list, not sure how Harris getting pushed aside wouldn’t be a second major attack by MAGA

    Gina Raimondo , no name recognition 

    Gavin Newsome, YES

    Pete Buttigieg, In Canada maybe but this country is far from ready to elect him

    Kamala Harris

    Josh Shapiro, excellent politician, but given his ethnicity, and especially in this red green insanity within the Democratic Party, unfortunately not a chance.

    edit, forgot Whitmer, but similar to Pete and Josh, not in racist America.
    Shapiro would be a great candidate but he's literally been governor for 18 months - I think he needs more time. And honestly he hasn't accomplished all that much beyond fixing I-95.

    For some reason people really hate Kamala - I think she'd be fine as a candidate though (although she was pretty lousy as a POTUS candidate in 2020). I was longing for Gretchen Whitmer to be the candidate driving through Michigan on our recent trip. But yeah, super sexist nation, moreso than racist. 

    Newsom & Buttigieg would be great.

    by the way...  Anyone who thinks Trump did well last night is just as delusional as he is. He absolutely did not pick up any swing voters or "double haters."
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  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,502
    Biden
    Any highlight reel of the debate last night should have Wreckage playing in the background. "Combing through the wreckage..."
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • darwinstheory
    darwinstheory LaPorte, IN Posts: 7,516
    Biden
    tbergs said:
    Any highlight reel of the debate last night should have Wreckage playing in the background. "Combing through the wreckage..."
    I was thinking Life Wasted would also be fitting.
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,962
    Biden
    tbergs said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    Here's the "takeaway" (since that's the latest buzz word) as I see it, from tonight's debate:  
    In the debate earlier this evening there occurred what I see as a defining moment as to where we are at regarding the highest political level in the U.S.  That moment happened when two old men running for the highest office in our country started to argue about their golfing handicaps.  Right out of my mouth came the words, "Are you shitting me?"  That moment was both embarrassing and disgraceful.

    Now, granted, anyone with half a brain (and, amazingly, there apparently are a hell of a lot of people with less than that) will understand why Joe Biden is the better choice of candidates for president of the United States.  He may be old, he may be tired, but he is not a bald-faced liar, he's not a convicted felon, and he still believes in democracy.  But that said, we as a nation are at an extremely low point in our history.  Maybe not the lowest ever, but when we reach a low of this magnitude, it can only mean trouble.  It's unsettling to me to think about how serious the situation is.  It's simply that bad.

    I watched five minutes and had to turn it off.  Biden sounds like an old feeble man.  Is he the smarter of the two?   Yes.  Does he look like he can lead the country?  No.

    This is why Kennedy beat Nixon all those years ago.  Perception.
    Did it look like Trump can lead this country? I mean, I think we can all acknowledge Joe is old, but Trump is a criminally convicted lying moron with no plan for this country. The fact Republicans are taking laps because Trump was Trump is pathetic. No Democrat is taking laps because Biden was Biden and showed his age. It's ridiculous that anyone outside the red hats would celebrate that performance last night. Jesus Christ, what a disaster indeed.
    No democrat is taking laps cause Biden was awful, even worse then the lowest expectations.  He was that bad.

    And we already know the MAGA are ok with trump being trump, so they would be happy with that debate.  Cause the lies don't matter to them and he certainly seemed like the more coherent person on stage if you aren't concerned with the lies.  

    To be fair, Trump, for him, was measured.  So while I am certainly never voting for Trump, he exceeded the low expectations I had for him but not acting like a completely deranged moron...just a moron.  And Biden was worse than my low expectations cause he had no fire whatsoever and had MULTIPLE moments of forgetting what he was saying and standing in silence.  It was a disaster for Biden.  

    But, if somehow he can turn it around and the Sept debates happen, he can re-write the narrative.  If I were Trump's camp, I'd cancel all future debates.
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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,962
    Biden
    darwinstheory said:
    tbergs said:
    Any highlight reel of the debate last night should have Wreckage playing in the background. "Combing through the wreckage..."
    I was thinking Life Wasted would also be fitting.
    I was thinking of a different band...Muse's "We are Fucking Fucked"
    hippiemom = goodness
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,696
    Biden
    Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.

    Trump lied.

    Winner: Trump.
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  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,446
    Biden was an absolute disaster. I've spoken to people on their deathbeds that appeared with more strength and vitality and coherence than him. I'm not confident they can erase this with messaging.
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  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,396
    A note of optimism.

    since the debate debacle, I’ve been considering whether this is the first time a political party was scrambling publicly to replace a candidate. But that’s incorrect 

    2016, Donald Trump, immediately after the release of the Access Hollywood tape

    He stayed in the race and won, when almost everyone predicted he will lose. Don’t believe Dems will be as lucky this time.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,446
    Lerxst1992 said:
    A note of optimism.

    since the debate debacle, I’ve been considering whether this is the first time a political party was scrambling publicly to replace a candidate. But that’s incorrect 

    2016, Donald Trump, immediately after the release of the Access Hollywood tape

    He stayed in the race and won, when almost everyone predicted he will lose. Don’t believe Dems will be as lucky this time.
    The difference was Donald Trump was being judged as a candidate, rather than a cult leader. He excels as the latter.
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,864
    Biden
    tbergs said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    Here's the "takeaway" (since that's the latest buzz word) as I see it, from tonight's debate:  
    In the debate earlier this evening there occurred what I see as a defining moment as to where we are at regarding the highest political level in the U.S.  That moment happened when two old men running for the highest office in our country started to argue about their golfing handicaps.  Right out of my mouth came the words, "Are you shitting me?"  That moment was both embarrassing and disgraceful.

    Now, granted, anyone with half a brain (and, amazingly, there apparently are a hell of a lot of people with less than that) will understand why Joe Biden is the better choice of candidates for president of the United States.  He may be old, he may be tired, but he is not a bald-faced liar, he's not a convicted felon, and he still believes in democracy.  But that said, we as a nation are at an extremely low point in our history.  Maybe not the lowest ever, but when we reach a low of this magnitude, it can only mean trouble.  It's unsettling to me to think about how serious the situation is.  It's simply that bad.

    I watched five minutes and had to turn it off.  Biden sounds like an old feeble man.  Is he the smarter of the two?   Yes.  Does he look like he can lead the country?  No.

    This is why Kennedy beat Nixon all those years ago.  Perception.
    Did it look like Trump can lead this country? I mean, I think we can all acknowledge Joe is old, but Trump is a criminally convicted lying moron with no plan for this country. The fact Republicans are taking laps because Trump was Trump is pathetic. No Democrat is taking laps because Biden was Biden and showed his age. It's ridiculous that anyone outside the red hats would celebrate that performance last night. Jesus Christ, what a disaster indeed.
    lol nobody will take laps for Biden being old because it's not a good look.

    Not a fan of Trump but after the first five minutes I'd have voted for him.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,034
    OnWis97 said:
    Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.

    Trump lied.

    Winner: Trump.
    And Biden had several lies himself. Just not as many. So it’s kind of hard to argue Trump did poorly in the debate because the other guy only lied less.
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,540
    Biden
    tempo_n_groove said:

    Not a fan of Trump but after the first five minutes I'd have voted for him.
    So you like receiving a firehose full of lies, I suppose. You do you.
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  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 18,031
    OnWis97 said:
    Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.

    Trump lied.

    Winner: Trump.
    In a nutshell.


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  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,502
    Biden
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.

    Trump lied.

    Winner: Trump.
    And Biden had several lies himself. Just not as many. So it’s kind of hard to argue Trump did poorly in the debate because the other guy only lied less.
    This is the problem with Trump and any opponent and always has been. Trump can lie 90% of the time and it's fine, but if the opponent makes a few misleading statements that may not be 100% accurate then the comparison is they both lie. There are blatant bold faced lies with no actual purpose but to be dishonest and then there are exaggerations or mistruths where not all parts of the statement are true. What Biden and most politicians do is a common practice and has been for decades, but what Trump does is downright devious. Not saying either is ok, but the two aren't even close to comparable. 
    It's a hopeless situation...

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