TicketMaster's Fan2Fan is now Fan2Bot
Comments
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JimmyV said:I won Baltimore and both Fenways. My card was charged midday for Balt and twice in the evening for Boston. Not sure that tracks if my name was only drawn once. Seems the charges would come right on top of each other in that scenario.
1. All users submit their entry forms. An entry form consists of multiple show selections and credit card info.
2. Party A, who has the inventory (count of available tickets) for each show, randomizes the forms and then starts 'allocating tickets' on a per form basis, based on remaining inventory. This means the first form in the list would get tickets to every show they picked... the 20,000th form in the list might get some but not all. The 100,000th form is probably getting nothing. Important to note, no ticket purchases are being processed in this step. It's just creating a list of ticket orders for every show, until the quantity of tickets available for that show has been claimed. And, importantly, it's doing it on a per-form basis, not a per-show basis.
3. With a complete list of ticket orders to be processed, based on step 2, Party A transmits the order data to Party B, who processes all the ticket orders and keeps lists of which orders processed successfully or had issues.
4. With a complete list of successful ticket orders, failed ticket orders, and rejected lottery submissions, Party C sends out e-mail batches for each of those buckets, spanning all shows.
Note that with this flow, there isn't necessarily any correlation between when winners are selected for each show, when they are charged, and when they are notified. Each of those things happens independently. Though it would seem to go against the 'spirit' of the lottery, especially with the history of priority selection, it's easy to see a lottery pipeline being built as described above, intentionally or not. For fans who seem alarmed by the high success rates some had while others got nothing, it's a plausible explanation... and for others it probably just reads like conspiracy theory.
10/7/96 (FL), 9/22/98 (FL), 9/23/98 (FL), 8/9/00 (FL), 8/10/00 (FL), 8/12/00 (FL), 4/11/03 (FL), 4/12/03 (FL), 4/13/03 (FL), 7/8/03 (NY), 7/9/03 (NY), 7/12/03 (PA), 7/14/03 (NJ), 10/8/04 (FL), 8/5/07 (IL), 11/27/12 (FL), 12/6/13 (WA), 4/8/16 (FL), 4/9/16 (FL), 4/11/16 (FL), 8/5/16 (MA), 8/22/16 (IL), 8/8/18 (WA), 8/10/18 (WA), 9/25/21 (CA), 9/26/21 (CA), 5/3/22 (CA), 5/12/22 (CA), 5/13/22 (CA), 9/18/23 (TX), 9/19/23 (TX), 10/23/23 (WA), 10/24/23 (WA), 5/28/24 (WA), 5/30/24 (WA), 4/24/25 (FL), 4/26/25 (FL), 4/29/25 (GA), 5/1/25 (GA)
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EH14457 said:JimmyV said:I won Baltimore and both Fenways. My card was charged midday for Balt and twice in the evening for Boston. Not sure that tracks if my name was only drawn once. Seems the charges would come right on top of each other in that scenario.
1. All users submit their entry forms. An entry form consists of multiple show selections and credit card info.
2. Party A, who has the inventory (count of available tickets) for each show, randomizes the forms and then starts 'allocating tickets' on a per form basis, based on remaining inventory. This means the first form in the list would get tickets to every show they picked... the 20,000th form in the list might get some but not all. The 100,000th form is probably getting nothing. Important to note, no ticket purchases are being processed in this step. It's just creating a list of ticket orders for every show, until the quantity of tickets available for that show has been claimed. And, importantly, it's doing it on a per-form basis, not a per-show basis.
3. With a complete list of ticket orders to be processed, based on step 2, Party A transmits the order data to Party B, who processes all the ticket orders and keeps lists of which orders processed successfully or had issues.
4. With a complete list of successful ticket orders, failed ticket orders, and rejected lottery submissions, Party C sends out e-mail batches for each of those buckets, spanning all shows.
Note that with this flow, there isn't necessarily any correlation between when winners are selected for each show, when they are charged, and when they are notified. Each of those things happens independently. Though it would seem to go against the 'spirit' of the lottery, especially with the history of priority selection, it's easy to see a lottery pipeline being built as described above, intentionally or not. For fans who seem alarmed by the high success rates some had while others got nothing, it's a plausible explanation... and for others it probably just reads like conspiracy theory.
It's the only thing that explains numerous people getting GA to 3+ northeast shows...odds for that with single show selection would be looooooong.0 -
Lerxst1992 said:Get_Right said:Lerxst1992 said:Get_Right said:Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”PJ, that’s who.
I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five NE shows?
If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.
Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.
We will not get an answer. The band and the 10C have never been ones to disclose details. It is the luck of the draw. Some win some lose. And I do not think priority changed anything. You put your numbers in a hat and some get picked others do not. The odds of getting picked for a NE show were always fairly low even with priority. They may even use a random number generator. But we will never know. The only thing I am surprised about is the number of people that got rejected for Fenway. There should have been a ton of 10C tickets for those shows.0 -
Once again, for the 3rd time now I had an agreement from a seller for a timed drop for me to purchase their tickets. For the 3rd time I was on ticketmaster at the exact time of the drop and somehow someone or something was able to purchase the tickets faster than I could! I have a hard time believing that bots or ticketmaster themselves aren't scooping up these tickets! This is bullshit!!!Summerfest 7/8/95
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 160 -
primussucks said:Once again, for the 3rd time now I had an agreement from a seller for a timed drop for me to purchase their tickets. For the 3rd time I was on ticketmaster at the exact time of the drop and somehow someone or something was able to purchase the tickets faster than I could! I have a hard time believing that bots or ticketmaster themselves aren't scooping up these tickets! This is bullshit!!!0
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EH14457 said:JimmyV said:I won Baltimore and both Fenways. My card was charged midday for Balt and twice in the evening for Boston. Not sure that tracks if my name was only drawn once. Seems the charges would come right on top of each other in that scenario.
1. All users submit their entry forms. An entry form consists of multiple show selections and credit card info.
2. Party A, who has the inventory (count of available tickets) for each show, randomizes the forms and then starts 'allocating tickets' on a per form basis, based on remaining inventory. This means the first form in the list would get tickets to every show they picked... the 20,000th form in the list might get some but not all. The 100,000th form is probably getting nothing. Important to note, no ticket purchases are being processed in this step. It's just creating a list of ticket orders for every show, until the quantity of tickets available for that show has been claimed. And, importantly, it's doing it on a per-form basis, not a per-show basis.
3. With a complete list of ticket orders to be processed, based on step 2, Party A transmits the order data to Party B, who processes all the ticket orders and keeps lists of which orders processed successfully or had issues.
4. With a complete list of successful ticket orders, failed ticket orders, and rejected lottery submissions, Party C sends out e-mail batches for each of those buckets, spanning all shows.
Note that with this flow, there isn't necessarily any correlation between when winners are selected for each show, when they are charged, and when they are notified. Each of those things happens independently. Though it would seem to go against the 'spirit' of the lottery, especially with the history of priority selection, it's easy to see a lottery pipeline being built as described above, intentionally or not. For fans who seem alarmed by the high success rates some had while others got nothing, it's a plausible explanation... and for others it probably just reads like conspiracy theory.I think this is pretty much exactly what happened. Also wouldn't surprise me if they processed all the CCs for each show at once, thus the delays in charges (and the fact that Fenway and Wrigley are a different system than the rest of the venues).Still a lottery, just not in the way we expected."I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22 | Baltimore 09.12.24 | Fenway 1 09.15.24 | Fenway 2 09.17.24
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."0 -
Get_Right said:Lerxst1992 said:Get_Right said:Lerxst1992 said:Get_Right said:Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”PJ, that’s who.
I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five NE shows?
If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.
Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.
We will not get an answer. The band and the 10C have never been ones to disclose details. It is the luck of the draw. Some win some lose. And I do not think priority changed anything. You put your numbers in a hat and some get picked others do not. The odds of getting picked for a NE show were always fairly low even with priority. They may even use a random number generator. But we will never know. The only thing I am surprised about is the number of people that got rejected for Fenway. There should have been a ton of 10C tickets for those shows.Do not agree with the bolded part. In the old days, we had a decent idea what our odds were before the draw for each show and the results made sense after the draw. How many won 3+ NE shows for the second most difficult concert tickets on earth is astounding. For me, I am a paying customer and deserve to know exactly what I am paying for, and if that’s a lottery, I should be due explanation of the exact process. Disclosure is the only way to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
I know raising this question yesterday was accurate on my part because we have seen many varying well educated guesses. It’s disappointing that this band believes they are running a fair process with minimal explanation how some were able to randomly win four times to tickets valued $500 to $2000, as they are slashing prices in Euro and Oceania. Glad MSG fans can pay for their tour routing blunders.0 -
craigraether said:primussucks said:Once again, for the 3rd time now I had an agreement from a seller for a timed drop for me to purchase their tickets. For the 3rd time I was on ticketmaster at the exact time of the drop and somehow someone or something was able to purchase the tickets faster than I could! I have a hard time believing that bots or ticketmaster themselves aren't scooping up these tickets! This is bullshit!!!Summerfest 7/8/95
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 160 -
Lerxst1992 said:Get_Right said:Lerxst1992 said:Get_Right said:Lerxst1992 said:Get_Right said:Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”PJ, that’s who.
I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five NE shows?
If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.
Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.
We will not get an answer. The band and the 10C have never been ones to disclose details. It is the luck of the draw. Some win some lose. And I do not think priority changed anything. You put your numbers in a hat and some get picked others do not. The odds of getting picked for a NE show were always fairly low even with priority. They may even use a random number generator. But we will never know. The only thing I am surprised about is the number of people that got rejected for Fenway. There should have been a ton of 10C tickets for those shows.Do not agree with the bolded part. In the old days, we had a decent idea what our odds were before the draw for each show and the results made sense after the draw. How many won 3+ NE shows for the second most difficult concert tickets on earth is astounding. For me, I am a paying customer and deserve to know exactly what I am paying for, and if that’s a lottery, I should be due explanation of the exact process. Disclosure is the only way to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
I know raising this question yesterday was accurate on my part because we have seen many varying well educated guesses. It’s disappointing that this band believes they are running a fair process with minimal explanation how some were able to randomly win four times to tickets valued $500 to $2000, as they are slashing prices in Euro and Oceania. Glad MSG fans can pay for their tour routing blunders.
We can agree to disagree. Remember big bold and free? No explanation. It is rare that we get a look behind the curtain. I do not think it is that complicated, as far as I know it is a random draw and some people win and some people lose. I do not think priority changed that at all. Some people got lucky and won multiple shows. Good for them and I do not think there is some conspiracy that led some to win while others lost. I do think there is a smarter way to put in your requests. Pick P1 for Philly and MSG and those are the lowest odds of winning, in fact it is a long shot. There has never been transparency to the process since it has gone digital.0 -
JojoRice said:Definitely some shadiness going on. My ticket buddy and I put in for the same 4 shows (Seattle 1&2, Wrigley 1&2). He went 4/4 in the lottery and I went 1/4.1998-06-30 Mpls | 2006-07-06 Las Vegas
2010-05-03 Kansas City | 2011-07-01 St. Louis EV
2011-07-02 Mpls EV | 2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20 | 2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-09-30 Missoula | 2012-11-18 Tulsa EV
2013-07-19 Chicago | 2013-11-15 Dallas
2013-11-16 OKC | 2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-17 Moline | 2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee | 2016-08-20 Chicago
2016-08-22 Chicago | 2018-08-18 Chicago
2018-08-20 Chicago | 2022-05-09 Phoenix
2022-05-20 Las Vegas | 2022-09-18 St. Louis
2022-09-20 OKC | 2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul | 2024-05-16 Las Vegas
2024-05-18 Las Vegas | 2024-08-31 Chicago0 -
primussucks said:craigraether said:primussucks said:Once again, for the 3rd time now I had an agreement from a seller for a timed drop for me to purchase their tickets. For the 3rd time I was on ticketmaster at the exact time of the drop and somehow someone or something was able to purchase the tickets faster than I could! I have a hard time believing that bots or ticketmaster themselves aren't scooping up these tickets! This is bullshit!!!Appeared to be an animal, yet so polite.0
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jwhjr17 said:JojoRice said:Definitely some shadiness going on. My ticket buddy and I put in for the same 4 shows (Seattle 1&2, Wrigley 1&2). He went 4/4 in the lottery and I went 1/4.
It is not almost like a lottery it is a lottery. Some people get picked some do not. It has always been that way even with priority. Was your win for wrigley?0 -
Big Bold and Free was going to be a free show in the northeast to makeup for a particularly bad ticket fiasco in the early-mid 2000's. Story was told by @Rubysdad / Tim Bierman on his old radio 10c radio show. The episode where @Santos L. Halper was a guest, if anyone has recordings.
Was treated like a state secret they were revealing.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Get_Right said:jwhjr17 said:JojoRice said:Definitely some shadiness going on. My ticket buddy and I put in for the same 4 shows (Seattle 1&2, Wrigley 1&2). He went 4/4 in the lottery and I went 1/4.
It is not almost like a lottery it is a lottery. Some people get picked some do not. It has always been that way even with priority. Was your win for wrigley?1998-06-30 Mpls | 2006-07-06 Las Vegas
2010-05-03 Kansas City | 2011-07-01 St. Louis EV
2011-07-02 Mpls EV | 2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20 | 2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-09-30 Missoula | 2012-11-18 Tulsa EV
2013-07-19 Chicago | 2013-11-15 Dallas
2013-11-16 OKC | 2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-17 Moline | 2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee | 2016-08-20 Chicago
2016-08-22 Chicago | 2018-08-18 Chicago
2018-08-20 Chicago | 2022-05-09 Phoenix
2022-05-20 Las Vegas | 2022-09-18 St. Louis
2022-09-20 OKC | 2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul | 2024-05-16 Las Vegas
2024-05-18 Las Vegas | 2024-08-31 Chicago0 -
jwhjr17 said:Get_Right said:jwhjr17 said:JojoRice said:Definitely some shadiness going on. My ticket buddy and I put in for the same 4 shows (Seattle 1&2, Wrigley 1&2). He went 4/4 in the lottery and I went 1/4.
It is not almost like a lottery it is a lottery. Some people get picked some do not. It has always been that way even with priority. Was your win for wrigley?
Glad to support LOLIt really is the luck of the draw. Kind of like Vegas, the house always wins.
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I’ve been unlucky to date in my attempts to get tickets for Vegas. I am trying for lower bowl and nothing has popped up that I seen for lower until today. I’ve had 3 separate chances to get tickets in my cart for lower bowl area and each time I keep
getting the U533code. I guess that means it the seller that is having issues listing the tickets, try multiple times and the same thing. Check back in 5 mins and then they are gone. Truly there is something going onPost edited by BLACK35 on2005 - London
2009 - Toronto
2010 - Buffalo
2011 - Toronto 1&2
2013 - London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014 - Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit
2016 - Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Ottawa, Toronto 1
2018 - Fenway 1&2
2022 - Hamilton, Toronto
2023 - Chicago 1&2
2024 - Las Vegas 1&20 -
marumaruko said:PJNB said:
"Only request tickets for shows you can definitely attend"
This should be tattooed on our arms. You don't know if you can make it happen, don't request and wait until you can be sure.
Tickets will be eventually available if everyone follows along.
Also, before anyone says "But no one will restrain themselves" - that's the mindset that is hindering the people. Just do what is ideal and you'll see.Post edited by SHZA on0 -
JimmyV said:Big Bold and Free was going to be a free show in the northeast to makeup for a particularly bad ticket fiasco in the early-mid 2000's. Story was told by @Rubysdad / Tim Bierman on his old radio 10c radio show. The episode where @Santos L. Halper was a guest, if anyone has recordings.
Was treated like a state secret they were revealing.0 -
As a rehabilitated former sneaker junkie, I can tell you if there really are bots going after certain sections of tickets regular people have zero chance. Good bots can cart items before they even go on sale.0
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Just listed a pretty good PAIR for Van2. Section 106 row 6.Post edited by RatherStarved onPJ: 2013: London (ON); Buffalo; 2014: Cincinnati; 2016: Sunrise, Miami, Toronto 1-2, Wrigley 2; 2018: London (UK) 1, Milan, Padova, Sea 2, Wrigley 1-2, Fenway 1-2; 2021: SHN, Ohana, Ohana Encore 1-2; 2022: LA 1-2, Phx, Oak 1-2, Fresno, Copenhagen, Hyde Park 1-2; Quebec, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto; MSG, Camden, Nashville, Louisville, St. Louis, OKC; 2023: St. Paul 1-2, Chicago 1-2; Fort Worth 2; Austin 1-2; 2024: Vancouver 1-2, LV 1-2, LA 1-2, Napa, Barcelona 1-2; Indy; Chicago 1-2; MSG 1-2; Philly 2; Boston 2; Ohana 1-2; 2025: FL 1-2, ATL 1-2, Nash 1-2, Pit 1-2.
EV Solo: 2017 Louisville and Franklin, 2018 Ohana, 2019 Innings Fest, Berlin, Düsseldorf, Dublin and Ohana; 2021 Ohana Friday (from beach) and Saturday; 2022 Earthlings Newark; 2023 Innings Fest and Benoraya 1-2.
Gutted: London 2 2018, Sacramento 2022, Noblesville 20230
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