Supply chains and Work shortages

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  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,072
    In 2008 oil rose to 132+ a barrel and gas maxed out at $3.80.  Today's current price is about $104 a barrel with an average US gallon of gas costing $4.92..What gives?  How is this not price gouging?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,367
    static111 said:
    In 2008 oil rose to 132+ a barrel and gas maxed out at $3.80.  Today's current price is about $104 a barrel with an average US gallon of gas costing $4.92..What gives?  How is this not price gouging?

    what refineries are off line due to accident or maintenance? you must also account for demand. how many more cars and especially trucks and suv's are on the roads compared to then?  which isnt to say they arent gouging but we also have to factor that stuff in.
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    In 2008 oil rose to 132+ a barrel and gas maxed out at $3.80.  Today's current price is about $104 a barrel with an average US gallon of gas costing $4.92..What gives?  How is this not price gouging?

    what refineries are off line due to accident or maintenance? you must also account for demand. how many more cars and especially trucks and suv's are on the roads compared to then?  which isnt to say they arent gouging but we also have to factor that stuff in.
    When you have the ability to uncap wells and turn the spigot on and you don’t because profits are so good, that’s a form of gouging. 

    There isn’t a shortage of oil and now the refineries are switching over not 6 months or 18 months ago when prices started to rise. 
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,072
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    In 2008 oil rose to 132+ a barrel and gas maxed out at $3.80.  Today's current price is about $104 a barrel with an average US gallon of gas costing $4.92..What gives?  How is this not price gouging?

    what refineries are off line due to accident or maintenance? you must also account for demand. how many more cars and especially trucks and suv's are on the roads compared to then?  which isnt to say they arent gouging but we also have to factor that stuff in.
    When you have the ability to uncap wells and turn the spigot on and you don’t because profits are so good, that’s a form of gouging. 

    There isn’t a shortage of oil and now the refineries are switching over not 6 months or 18 months ago when prices started to rise. 
    my conspiracy mind also says that the fossil fuel industry wants to make brandon look bad so he either capitulates and moves away from the green energy movement, or they get a more Fossil Fuel friendly administration in 2 years.  Unprovable of course.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,367
    static111 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    In 2008 oil rose to 132+ a barrel and gas maxed out at $3.80.  Today's current price is about $104 a barrel with an average US gallon of gas costing $4.92..What gives?  How is this not price gouging?

    what refineries are off line due to accident or maintenance? you must also account for demand. how many more cars and especially trucks and suv's are on the roads compared to then?  which isnt to say they arent gouging but we also have to factor that stuff in.
    When you have the ability to uncap wells and turn the spigot on and you don’t because profits are so good, that’s a form of gouging. 

    There isn’t a shortage of oil and now the refineries are switching over not 6 months or 18 months ago when prices started to rise. 
    my conspiracy mind also says that the fossil fuel industry wants to make brandon look bad so he either capitulates and moves away from the green energy movement, or they get a more Fossil Fuel friendly administration in 2 years.  Unprovable of course.

    I think it ends up accelerating the switch to ev, prob will be the infrastructure needed to power reliably and in ideal locations.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    static111 said:
    In 2008 oil rose to 132+ a barrel and gas maxed out at $3.80.  Today's current price is about $104 a barrel with an average US gallon of gas costing $4.92..What gives?  How is this not price gouging?
    Biden.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    Regarding gas prices...I find it interesting that when oil companies jack up the prices everyone gets up in arms either at them or at elected officials.  Raise the rent 20%? That's just the market; people can always resort to living in shelters. Gas is expensive? That's unfair and I won't resort to any of several possibilities to save on my fuel consumption.

    Maybe it wasn't a good idea to put our entire economy into something that's both finite and market driven. In a sense, a century of cheap gas was one of the worst things to happen because it led to development patterns that have us driving everywhere, people thinking nothing of spending thousands extra for a vehicle that gets half the MPG of something that would serve their purpose just as well, and convenience-driven behavior based on the assumption that this finite resource is infinite.

    Go ahead and drill...but the resource remains finite and there are a lot of behaviors and technologies that should have been improved decades ago.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    OnWis97 said:
    Regarding gas prices...I find it interesting that when oil companies jack up the prices everyone gets up in arms either at them or at elected officials.  Raise the rent 20%? That's just the market; people can always resort to living in shelters. Gas is expensive? That's unfair and I won't resort to any of several possibilities to save on my fuel consumption.

    Maybe it wasn't a good idea to put our entire economy into something that's both finite and market driven. In a sense, a century of cheap gas was one of the worst things to happen because it led to development patterns that have us driving everywhere, people thinking nothing of spending thousands extra for a vehicle that gets half the MPG of something that would serve their purpose just as well, and convenience-driven behavior based on the assumption that this finite resource is infinite.

    Go ahead and drill...but the resource remains finite and there are a lot of behaviors and technologies that should have been improved decades ago.
    how can it be a finite resource if there's no such thing as fossils? they just fuels, man! 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    This subject very much seems to be relevant again where I live and I'm wonder if the same is true else where.  I'm noticing a lot of items running low or not available and stores understaffed.  Examples:
    Our grocery store is way understaffed.
    My dentist today said the were very low on certain supplies for their office.
    Haven't been able to get peanuts in shells for my wife lately.
    The pharmacy was our of a few things I was looking for today.
     TP and tissues are in three stores here.

    Maybe it's just a local thing.  What about your way?


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,892
    static111 said:
    In 2008 oil rose to 132+ a barrel and gas maxed out at $3.80.  Today's current price is about $104 a barrel with an average US gallon of gas costing $4.92..What gives?  How is this not price gouging?

    I think during the last big drop in oil prices that energy companies realized the money's in gas and not in oil so margins for refineries went up.

    In addition there's the current challenge that refineries are expensive, cost about 10 billion dollars and generally take something like 50 years to pay off.   With the whole clean energy movement, and the push to burn less fossil fuels, I think it's getting almost impossible to justify building new refineries. Sure there's demand for it now, but will there continue to be demand 20 to 30 years down the road to pay it off kind of thing.

    From what I've read a handful of refineries were decommissioned over the past few years, and few were converted to refine other things, and the refining capacity is lower than it was before covid.  It's been a long while since new gas refineries were built in Canada or the US :(


  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,103
    Way to contribute to the supply chain issue, rocket scientist.

    Arizona stacks shipping containers along the border | CNN
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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Way to contribute to the supply chain issue, rocket scientist.

    Arizona stacks shipping containers along the border | CNN
    I thought they should have done this in 2009 when we had an abundance of them.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    I am now paying 33% more for my groceries.  This has to do with fuel prices I guess and inflation?  

    My usual bill was around 200 or so.  I am now at almost $300.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,103
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I am now paying 33% more for my groceries.  This has to do with fuel prices I guess and inflation?  

    My usual bill was around 200 or so.  I am now at almost $300.
    Eat less and work harder, you lazy SOB.

    Critical to a well-oiled economy, productivity is also the ultimate driver of standards of living: Higher productivity eventually translates to more goods and services available at a lower cost, and increased wages for workers, meaning higher productivity also combats inflation.

    Rising productivity is a key lever against inflation, as workers producing more with less allows for relief from rising prices.

    Gift article:

    https://wapo.st/3Doghrn
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I am now paying 33% more for my groceries.  This has to do with fuel prices I guess and inflation?  

    My usual bill was around 200 or so.  I am now at almost $300.
    Eat less and work harder, you lazy SOB.

    Critical to a well-oiled economy, productivity is also the ultimate driver of standards of living: Higher productivity eventually translates to more goods and services available at a lower cost, and increased wages for workers, meaning higher productivity also combats inflation.

    Rising productivity is a key lever against inflation, as workers producing more with less allows for relief from rising prices.

    Gift article:

    https://wapo.st/3Doghrn
    I need to stop buying organic...  I'll wash my strawberries from now on jeeze...
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-US-Diesel-Shortage-Is-Worsening.html

    Well now.  Let's scare everyone into thinking we are running out of Diesel...
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,103
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I am now paying 33% more for my groceries.  This has to do with fuel prices I guess and inflation?  

    My usual bill was around 200 or so.  I am now at almost $300.
    Eat less and work harder, you lazy SOB.

    Critical to a well-oiled economy, productivity is also the ultimate driver of standards of living: Higher productivity eventually translates to more goods and services available at a lower cost, and increased wages for workers, meaning higher productivity also combats inflation.

    Rising productivity is a key lever against inflation, as workers producing more with less allows for relief from rising prices.

    Gift article:

    https://wapo.st/3Doghrn
    I need to stop buying organic...  I'll wash my strawberries from now on jeeze...
    Hipster strawberries? Gotta get the petouli oil off.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I am now paying 33% more for my groceries.  This has to do with fuel prices I guess and inflation?  

    My usual bill was around 200 or so.  I am now at almost $300.
    Eat less and work harder, you lazy SOB.

    Critical to a well-oiled economy, productivity is also the ultimate driver of standards of living: Higher productivity eventually translates to more goods and services available at a lower cost, and increased wages for workers, meaning higher productivity also combats inflation.

    Rising productivity is a key lever against inflation, as workers producing more with less allows for relief from rising prices.

    Gift article:

    https://wapo.st/3Doghrn
    I need to stop buying organic...  I'll wash my strawberries from now on jeeze...
    Hipster strawberries? Gotta get the petouli oil off.
    HA!  I'd never/have never wear patchouli.  That shit'll kill ya.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    I think it's safe to say that we don't have a "supply chain" issue anymore.

    So why in the hell are car prices so high and companies not making as many?

    Greed.

    Why else would there be no cars on the lots?  Just make fewer and sell them for more.  It's an amazing tactic and why I'll drive my truck into the ground.

    Thoughts?

    https://jacobin.com/2023/06/inflation-prices-profits-car-dealerships-controls

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