Supply chains and Work shortages

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Comments

  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,072
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    static111 said:
    The primary reason in that article is important to note: investor pressure 

    a publicly traded company has a strong obligation to maximise shareholder returns no matter what industry it’s in, as once you are doing things that doesn’t benefit shareholders you get replaced by a CEO who will. After a decade of getting hammered in the market, you cannot make the case that spending all those profits now is good for investors. If oil is projected to remain high for 5–10 years, then yes. 

    when those projects go online in 5-10 years, prices will be low again probably.  Capital spending has to take into account anticipated oil prices when a project is online, not today. 

     I guarantee  you if Exxon or Chevron  spent 20 billion today to drill you wouldn’t see that oil for years. 2015-2020 oil was on average in the 40 dollar range so it’s not like they were going to drill more then either as they were busy paying dividends to shareholders which they had to otherwise they leave since the returns were crap. 

    If you want to blame anything, blame the low prices for 7-8 years as that’s part of why we are where we are. This problem would be way less if oil was75 a barrel that whole time as drilling and exploration budgets would have been maintained 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,072
    static111 said:
    The primary reason in that article is important to note: investor pressure 

    a publicly traded company has a strong obligation to maximise shareholder returns no matter what industry it’s in, as once you are doing things that doesn’t benefit shareholders you get replaced by a CEO who will. After a decade of getting hammered in the market, you cannot make the case that spending all those profits now is good for investors. If oil is projected to remain high for 5–10 years, then yes. 

    when those projects go online in 5-10 years, prices will be low again probably.  Capital spending has to take into account anticipated oil prices when a project is online, not today. 

     I guarantee  you if Exxon or Chevron  spent 20 billion today to drill you wouldn’t see that oil for years. 2015-2020 oil was on average in the 40 dollar range so it’s not like they were going to drill more then either as they were busy paying dividends to shareholders which they had to otherwise they leave since the returns were crap. 

    If you want to blame anything, blame the low prices for 7-8 years as that’s part of why we are where we are. This problem would be way less if oil was75 a barrel that whole time as drilling and exploration budgets would have been maintained 
    Investors are part owners of the company and if they see that the end goal of maximizing their returns is more important than financial stability to the rest of the world that speaks to me that the oil companies are the problem, or at least how they are administered.

    As I stated in a previous comment, why are oil companies pulling in record profits during a time of crisis?  It seems that profits can still be made albeit at a lower rate while reliving the rest of us non stock holders that are purchasing the product that fuels the profit machine.  How many capped wells can be uncapped?  Sure that will take time but it is something.  Doing nothing and saying we have to be conservative so we can maximize shareholder profits is just blame shifting.


    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,830
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    The primary reason in that article is important to note: investor pressure 

    a publicly traded company has a strong obligation to maximise shareholder returns no matter what industry it’s in, as once you are doing things that doesn’t benefit shareholders you get replaced by a CEO who will. After a decade of getting hammered in the market, you cannot make the case that spending all those profits now is good for investors. If oil is projected to remain high for 5–10 years, then yes. 

    when those projects go online in 5-10 years, prices will be low again probably.  Capital spending has to take into account anticipated oil prices when a project is online, not today. 

     I guarantee  you if Exxon or Chevron  spent 20 billion today to drill you wouldn’t see that oil for years. 2015-2020 oil was on average in the 40 dollar range so it’s not like they were going to drill more then either as they were busy paying dividends to shareholders which they had to otherwise they leave since the returns were crap. 

    If you want to blame anything, blame the low prices for 7-8 years as that’s part of why we are where we are. This problem would be way less if oil was75 a barrel that whole time as drilling and exploration budgets would have been maintained 
    Investors are part owners of the company and if they see that the end goal of maximizing their returns is more important than financial stability to the rest of the world that speaks to me that the oil companies are the problem, or at least how they are administered.

    As I stated in a previous comment, why are oil companies pulling in record profits during a time of crisis?  It seems that profits can still be made albeit at a lower rate while reliving the rest of us non stock holders that are purchasing the product that fuels the profit machine.  How many capped wells can be uncapped?  Sure that will take time but it is something.  Doing nothing and saying we have to be conservative so we can maximize shareholder profits is just blame shifting.


    A time of crisis is unrelated to me

    i distinctly remember discussing this in 2014 with my wife who is in oil and gas.

    the takeaway was this: budgets get cut, we don’t invest, prices meet or exceeds 2014 levels in a decade. We spend more, then prices crash again and we do it all over again.

    it was pretty spot on. Maybe a bit accelerated due to COVID but the fact she was sure means it’s extremely predictable 

    the concept of smoothing out prices so this doesn’t happen would be possible if everyone was in OPEC. Because that’s not the case chronic over production alternating with under production happens. Based on investment, not starting and stopping wells. Wells decline in yield over time so you need more wells to even maintain past production, and even more to increase it.  When you see “production is down “  it’s usually because the well is declining and they haven’t drilled more, not that they are stopping wells to get that decrease.

    If you want to know why you can’t cap and uncap wells, that’s in the stock market thread.  But generally no, you can’t just turn wells on and off 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,072
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    and the cancer that will come with it
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • static111
    static111 Posts: 5,072
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    and the cancer that will come with it

    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    I guess there is no winning when it comes to energy unless you are a shareholder.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    I agree with that.

    Once prices go down, SUV sales skyrocket though. Happens every time.  American consumers are no better than oil companies in contributing to the boom and bust cycles 

    No one is buying a Prius at 2.00 a gallon, at 5.00 they do (generally). 

    Getting people on board with renewables regardless of energy prices should be the goal as long term it’s always up. Our house is funded by oil and gas and we use zero power from the grid so it’s not an either/or thing.  If we were some large institutional shareholder of oil and gas then it might be different, but we aren’t 


    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • jerparker20
    jerparker20 St. Paul, MN Posts: 2,529
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    About that…

    The energy companies pretty excited to move to renewables. Reduced operational costs due to reductions in plant maintenance, upkeep, and labor. Xcel Energy is moving very fast to expanded solar operations. They can get a solar field up and operational in a few months. To maintain one of their solar fields only requires a handful of people, whereas they need 100s of people working 24-7 to keep a coal-fired/gasified plant running. 

    I’ve been a part of a government run committee looking at addressing the impacts of closing coal-fired plants in MN. People not familiar with renewables are quite shocked when they start discussing  the opportunities to redeploy workers into those areas, and the labor folks start laughing. Basically, if you can plug an electric cord into an outlet, operate a socket wrench, and clean off surfaces of dirt or snow, you can be a solar field tech. Also the pay is significantly less, like a lot. The energy companies aren’t moving towards renewables to save the planet, their doing it to save boatloads of money.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    About that…

    The energy companies pretty excited to move to renewables. Reduced operational costs due to reductions in plant maintenance, upkeep, and labor. Xcel Energy is moving very fast to expanded solar operations. They can get a solar field up and operational in a few months. To maintain one of their solar fields only requires a handful of people, whereas they need 100s of people working 24-7 to keep a coal-fired/gasified plant running. 

    I’ve been a part of a government run committee looking at addressing the impacts of closing coal-fired plants in MN. People not familiar with renewables are quite shocked when they start discussing  the opportunities to redeploy workers into those areas, and the labor folks start laughing. Basically, if you can plug an electric cord into an outlet, operate a socket wrench, and clean off surfaces of dirt or snow, you can be a solar field tech. Also the pay is significantly less, like a lot. The energy companies aren’t moving towards renewables to save the planet, their doing it to save boatloads of money.
    I always like to point to California when it comes to solar and wind.  They have an abundance of it and have fucked it up every step of the way.  Ask anyone who lives out there.

    I would like to see it improve and get better but like I said, even though renewables are lest costly the companies will still be looking to make maximum profits and recoup costs.

    Then we as a government need to force these renewables like batteries, solar panels, to be recyclable.  I get angry when I start thinking about it, sorry...
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    About that…

    The energy companies pretty excited to move to renewables. Reduced operational costs due to reductions in plant maintenance, upkeep, and labor. Xcel Energy is moving very fast to expanded solar operations. They can get a solar field up and operational in a few months. To maintain one of their solar fields only requires a handful of people, whereas they need 100s of people working 24-7 to keep a coal-fired/gasified plant running. 

    I’ve been a part of a government run committee looking at addressing the impacts of closing coal-fired plants in MN. People not familiar with renewables are quite shocked when they start discussing  the opportunities to redeploy workers into those areas, and the labor folks start laughing. Basically, if you can plug an electric cord into an outlet, operate a socket wrench, and clean off surfaces of dirt or snow, you can be a solar field tech. Also the pay is significantly less, like a lot. The energy companies aren’t moving towards renewables to save the planet, their doing it to save boatloads of money.
    I always like to point to California when it comes to solar and wind.  They have an abundance of it and have fucked it up every step of the way.  Ask anyone who lives out there.

    I would like to see it improve and get better but like I said, even though renewables are lest costly the companies will still be looking to make maximum profits and recoup costs.

    Then we as a government need to force these renewables like batteries, solar panels, to be recyclable.  I get angry when I start thinking about it, sorry...
    I think California requires solar on all new residential builds. That’s smart. The red tape is absurd 

    The ability to roll solar into a mortgage makes it way more affordable. Not to mention it pays for itself anyway 
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    About that…

    The energy companies pretty excited to move to renewables. Reduced operational costs due to reductions in plant maintenance, upkeep, and labor. Xcel Energy is moving very fast to expanded solar operations. They can get a solar field up and operational in a few months. To maintain one of their solar fields only requires a handful of people, whereas they need 100s of people working 24-7 to keep a coal-fired/gasified plant running. 

    I’ve been a part of a government run committee looking at addressing the impacts of closing coal-fired plants in MN. People not familiar with renewables are quite shocked when they start discussing  the opportunities to redeploy workers into those areas, and the labor folks start laughing. Basically, if you can plug an electric cord into an outlet, operate a socket wrench, and clean off surfaces of dirt or snow, you can be a solar field tech. Also the pay is significantly less, like a lot. The energy companies aren’t moving towards renewables to save the planet, their doing it to save boatloads of money.
    I always like to point to California when it comes to solar and wind.  They have an abundance of it and have fucked it up every step of the way.  Ask anyone who lives out there.

    I would like to see it improve and get better but like I said, even though renewables are lest costly the companies will still be looking to make maximum profits and recoup costs.

    Then we as a government need to force these renewables like batteries, solar panels, to be recyclable.  I get angry when I start thinking about it, sorry...
    I think California requires solar on all new residential builds. That’s smart. The red tape is absurd 

    The ability to roll solar into a mortgage makes it way more affordable. Not to mention it pays for itself anyway 
    NY has a minimum Sliver LEED on new buildings, I think public is harsher.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,110
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    About that…

    The energy companies pretty excited to move to renewables. Reduced operational costs due to reductions in plant maintenance, upkeep, and labor. Xcel Energy is moving very fast to expanded solar operations. They can get a solar field up and operational in a few months. To maintain one of their solar fields only requires a handful of people, whereas they need 100s of people working 24-7 to keep a coal-fired/gasified plant running. 

    I’ve been a part of a government run committee looking at addressing the impacts of closing coal-fired plants in MN. People not familiar with renewables are quite shocked when they start discussing  the opportunities to redeploy workers into those areas, and the labor folks start laughing. Basically, if you can plug an electric cord into an outlet, operate a socket wrench, and clean off surfaces of dirt or snow, you can be a solar field tech. Also the pay is significantly less, like a lot. The energy companies aren’t moving towards renewables to save the planet, their doing it to save boatloads of money.
    I always like to point to California when it comes to solar and wind.  They have an abundance of it and have fucked it up every step of the way.  Ask anyone who lives out there.

    I would like to see it improve and get better but like I said, even though renewables are lest costly the companies will still be looking to make maximum profits and recoup costs.

    Then we as a government need to force these renewables like batteries, solar panels, to be recyclable.  I get angry when I start thinking about it, sorry...
    I think California requires solar on all new residential builds. That’s smart. The red tape is absurd 

    The ability to roll solar into a mortgage makes it way more affordable. Not to mention it pays for itself anyway 
    NY has a minimum Sliver LEED on new buildings, I think public is harsher.
    Why do you say "harsher?" Is LEED certification a bad thing, whether silver, gold or platinum?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    static111 said:
    Imagine having the ability to be able to lower gas prices and not just to maximize profits.

    Everyone should friggin walk to work for the next month.
    Ummmm....that is literally every product ;)  

    But yes, I see what you are saying.
    OPEC in the past has been willing to increase supply to help things.  This time around we got nothing from anyone, lol.
    The positive side of this is that it should make a strong case for expanding renewables and green energy so we are less dependent on the whims of supplier nations and Big Oil when it comes to energy prices.
    So about that...  Power companies spent 3 billion dollars on land rental for renewables here on the coasts of NY/NJ.  Those companies need to see a return so don't get excited on cheaper energy in the future unless you have your own windmill.
    About that…

    The energy companies pretty excited to move to renewables. Reduced operational costs due to reductions in plant maintenance, upkeep, and labor. Xcel Energy is moving very fast to expanded solar operations. They can get a solar field up and operational in a few months. To maintain one of their solar fields only requires a handful of people, whereas they need 100s of people working 24-7 to keep a coal-fired/gasified plant running. 

    I’ve been a part of a government run committee looking at addressing the impacts of closing coal-fired plants in MN. People not familiar with renewables are quite shocked when they start discussing  the opportunities to redeploy workers into those areas, and the labor folks start laughing. Basically, if you can plug an electric cord into an outlet, operate a socket wrench, and clean off surfaces of dirt or snow, you can be a solar field tech. Also the pay is significantly less, like a lot. The energy companies aren’t moving towards renewables to save the planet, their doing it to save boatloads of money.
    I always like to point to California when it comes to solar and wind.  They have an abundance of it and have fucked it up every step of the way.  Ask anyone who lives out there.

    I would like to see it improve and get better but like I said, even though renewables are lest costly the companies will still be looking to make maximum profits and recoup costs.

    Then we as a government need to force these renewables like batteries, solar panels, to be recyclable.  I get angry when I start thinking about it, sorry...
    I think California requires solar on all new residential builds. That’s smart. The red tape is absurd 

    The ability to roll solar into a mortgage makes it way more affordable. Not to mention it pays for itself anyway 
    NY has a minimum Sliver LEED on new buildings, I think public is harsher.
    Why do you say "harsher?" Is LEED certification a bad thing, whether silver, gold or platinum?
    Stricter is the word I should have used.

    Everyone should research LEED.  Subaru made a factory here in the states that is Platinum.  That is pretty impressive.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    I would love to buy a new 4runner.  Have you seen the prices?

    I'll wait.  Thanks.