Oklahoma City question

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  • JZ280705
    JZ280705 Posts: 87
    Both parties are so off the rails it’s unreal.  But having said that, music - especially live music, should be a place for people to come together.   Or if you have to do something political, do something everyone can get behind.  Like Springsteen with the food bank, veterans.  How about stopping dog meat festival.  Bring people together or at least don’t provoke divide people paying their hard earned money to be entertained.
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,069
    edited May 2022
    JeBurkhardt said:
    You see it in every State. I live in Southern Illinois and I might as well be living Oklahoma or Texas politically locally. Illinois has the reputation of being a blue state, but outside of Chicago, Springfield, St Louis Metro area and few other places, the State is as red as a fire hydrant. 
    Yep. The real divide in this country is rural vs. urban. Rural California or Oregon is the same as rural Alabama. Same with cities. 
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,940
    ComeToTX said:
    Exactly. Texas had more Biden voters than any state outside California. 
    And California had more Trump voters than any state period.  It is very useful to remember this when we talk about the red state/blue state divide.  There were more Trump voters in CA than TX, more Biden voters in TX than NY, more Trump voters in NY than OH, more Biden voters in OH than MA, more Trump voters in MA than MS, and more Biden voters in MS than VT.

    It would be foolish and unfair to boycott Oklahoma, especially when the band has been holding the ticket money for over two years.  "Punishing" people who may or may not agree with particular legislation is unfair.  And what if they agree with you about one issue but disagree about another issue?  Should they get a questionnaire or commission a poll before shows are scheduled?  It's like the Catholic bishops withholding Communion from politicians who support a woman's right to an abortion, but who are conveniently silent about other politicians who support the death penalty, which directly contravenes the Church's teaching.  And a boycott would be foolish because it wouldn't accomplish anything.  Many of the people on the other side of this issue from Pearl Jam are opposed to abortion because they believe it is murder, and they believe God disapproves of it.  Rock band boycotts are not going to sway them from these deeply held beliefs.

    With respect to the "I wish musicians would just play music" argument, I think that's simplistic.  Musicians are artists.  For many artists, including Pearl Jam, the songs are political.  Pearl Jam has been writing anti-war songs ("Garden"; "Yellow Ledbetter") and making pro-choice statements ("Porch") since the beginning.  You can't separate their music and their politics.  And it has been 30 years.  It's a known quantity.  If you go see Pearl Jam in 2022, you know there might be politics.  If you can't stomach it, don't go.  I always remember a friend who complained about Bono getting political at U2 shows by saying, "I don't want to hear about politics.  Just sing 'Sunday Bloody Sunday.'"  The song is obviously very political, but the friend was oblivious because he was ignorant of Irish history and politics.  What really bothered him is not when someone talked about politics; it was when someone talked about politics in a way that he disagreed with.  This is a common phenomenon.

    I mostly align with Pearl Jam politically, and definitely on abortion and war, and I sometimes get uncomfortable when Eddie talks about politics, but mostly because I think he sometimes can be didactic and dismissive and I think it ends up being counterproductive-- in other words, it preaches to the choir but doesn't convert anyone else and actually might alienate some people.  I will say that I thought he managed to address political issues in a much more appealing way on this tour.  His two political asides in Fresno (on guns and abortion) were particularly thoughtful and humorous.

    I'm more uncomfortable with athletes getting political because, unlike artists, their job does not entail the promulgation of any sort of ideas.  There's also something coercive about political stands in team sports.  When Muhammad Ali took a stand against the Vietnam War, he represented himself alone and he bore the consequences of his actions alone.  When an MLB team all gets together in support of, for example, Black Lives Matter, you know there are players on that team that either don't believe that, or who just would rather not put themselves out there one way or the other on social or political issues, but they don't want to be the guy who causes a rift in the locker room by saying, "I don't want to be part of this."  That's troublesome.  Having said that, I don't begrudge any athlete using their platform to further a cause, but I totally understand why some people get upset about it when they do.

    Last thing: it's one of the interesting things about the rock world.  Pearl Jam and many other rock bands are very liberal, particularly on social issues, but their fans tend to be older and whiter, which is demographically a conservative cohort.  There will always be a tension there.
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • Nick Namenone
    Nick Namenone Posts: 72
    JZ280705 said:
    Roger Waters boycotts Israel who he is obsessed with, and is a useful idiot for Hamas who arrests and tortured their own people,  whose press he has given interviews to.  He also defends Assad and other murderous dictators.  A bigger hypocrite I’ve never seen.

    Meanwhile, he plays dozens of shows in the US despite his profound hatred for our country which he constantly shuts on, while raging against the evils of capitalism from his luxury mansion in the Hamptons.  

    Six days before Russia attacked Ukraine, Waters went on the pro Putin RT where he gave this despicable interview.  He’s been a fan of Putin for years and has yet to apologize for it.  

    Waters is the only act whose politics has made me boycott him despite my having been a fan of Pink Floyd since 1970.

    I wish musicians would just play music and not act like they are experts on political matters even one’s I may agree with.  Who cares what actors, celebrities and musicians think.  If they want to use their art to unite people, that’s great. But usually it’s to satisfy their own ego.  Google “Film Actors Guild”

    Musicians, artists and entertainers are people and as such they have every right to express themselves politically. Just you have the right to express that you wish they wouldn’t.  The guys in Pearl Jam have been politically active from the very beginning.  They guys in Pearl Jam seem to put in the work to inform themselves on various political issues.  All of the guys are very involved in giving to various communities which is inherently political. If you don’t want to hear about politics you need to find a different band.  These guys have the time and the resources and the experience in various political and charitable organizations.  They might not be experts but they are well informed and passionate. They make mistakes and they make choices and say things you might disagree with and that I disagree with but I would never presume to tell another human being to stop being themselves and entertain me.  That is a weird , entitled thing to demand. Why should they shut up?  Maybe you should move on?   Or stick around and enjoy the music and ignore the politics if you don’t like it and protest if they offend you. It is your right after all.

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