Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
BLM is a lot more than just support for human lives. They are a political organization. Our local chapter was pretty vocal about legalizing prostitution and organized multiple anti-police protests. So it’s a lot more than just black lives .
BLM is a lot more than just support for human lives. They are a political organization. Our local chapter was pretty vocal about legalizing prostitution and organized multiple anti-police protests. So it’s a lot more than just black lives .
It's all part of the same larger issue regarding BIPOC lives in our society
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
edited February 2022
Bye
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Again, I'm all for helping kids learn the importance of getting along with others, and not being racists. I learned that as a kid by being with kids of other colors, nationalities, religions, etc., not by being paraded around by adults naively thinking little kids have the cognitive ability to understand what a march is really about. Give kids a chance to interact together and let kids be kids and the problems will settle themselves. Worked fine for us.
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
Are you indoctrinating or teaching? That is where I would draw the line.
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
Are you indoctrinating or teaching? That is where I would draw the line.
Focus on all the religious and nationalistic indoctrinating over some kids walking around playing demonstration.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
edited February 2022
fuck it
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Again, I'm all for helping kids learn the importance of getting along with others, and not being racists. I learned that as a kid by being with kids of other colors, nationalities, religions, etc., not by being paraded around by adults naively thinking little kids have the cognitive ability to understand what a march is really about. Give kids a chance to interact together and let kids be kids and the problems will settle themselves. Worked fine for us.
It did. But if you don't believe me, that fine. No need to tire yourself out with that weariness. I know what did and don't work for me and others I grew up with.
Hey, it's great that you know that it worked for you and some friends that you grew up with, but I would argue that it did not make a dent in US society.
I've raised two five-year-olds (now nine and eleven), and they were/still are more than capable of learning about the systemic issues that they were/are facing because generations like yours and mine think that things "worked fine for us."
Post edited by dankind on
I SAW PEARL JAM
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
Again, I'm all for helping kids learn the importance of getting along with others, and not being racists. I learned that as a kid by being with kids of other colors, nationalities, religions, etc., not by being paraded around by adults naively thinking little kids have the cognitive ability to understand what a march is really about. Give kids a chance to interact together and let kids be kids and the problems will settle themselves. Worked fine for us.
It did. But if you don't believe me, that fine. No need to tire yourself out with that weariness. I know what did and don't work for me and others I grew up with.
Hey, it's great that you know that it worked for you and some friends that you grew up with, but I would argue that it did not make a dent in US society.
I've raised two five-year-olds (now nine and eleven), and they were/still are more than capable of learning about the systemic issues that they were/are facing because generations like yours and mine think that things "worked fine for us."
Dankind, I don't respond well to weary faces or being told to go pound sand, so I appreciate your good and clear explanation and I'm glad you are doing your best to raise your kids in ways that might make a difference. I hope they do.
As far as things working out fine, I only mean that in terms of my own perspective. But in terms of how my generation or yours as made a difference, what I think about that right now is too depressing, negative, hope destroying, and nonconstructive. No one needs that.
Keep up the good work with those kids.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
Are you indoctrinating or teaching? That is where I would draw the line.
But where are you drawing that line? Is taking children to church indoctrination? In my opinion, yes. How about taking kids to help out in a soup kitchen or a shelter for homeless people? What about an animal shelter?
I would suggest that views on what is indoctrination and what is teaching depend on who is doing the observing. Why is it widely viewed as a good thing to indoctrinate kids into religion but it's suspect if you indoctrinate them into human rights issues? I know which views I would rather share with a child.
Obviously I would be in favour of talking to the kids about what your reasons are, why you view the world and your place in it the way you do, and what your values are.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
Are you indoctrinating or teaching? That is where I would draw the line.
But where are you drawing that line? Is taking children to church indoctrination? In my opinion, yes. How about taking kids to help out in a soup kitchen or a shelter for homeless people? What about an animal shelter?
I would suggest that views on what is indoctrination and what is teaching depend on who is doing the observing. Why is it widely viewed as a good thing to indoctrinate kids into religion but it's suspect if you indoctrinate them into human rights issues? I know which views I would rather share with a child.
Obviously I would be in favour of talking to the kids about what your reasons are, why you view the world and your place in it the way you do, and what your values are.
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
Are you indoctrinating or teaching? That is where I would draw the line.
But where are you drawing that line? Is taking children to church indoctrination? In my opinion, yes. How about taking kids to help out in a soup kitchen or a shelter for homeless people? What about an animal shelter?
I would suggest that views on what is indoctrination and what is teaching depend on who is doing the observing. Why is it widely viewed as a good thing to indoctrinate kids into religion but it's suspect if you indoctrinate them into human rights issues? I know which views I would rather share with a child.
Obviously I would be in favour of talking to the kids about what your reasons are, why you view the world and your place in it the way you do, and what your values are.
Whataboutisms? I never said anything about religion, not sure how that got thrown in?
What I see in the school is to me, indoctrinating.
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
Considering the brain isn’t fully developed until 25…
Oh no! Two white childless dudes are concerned about children they don't have to raise/wouldn't know the first thing about raising in 2022.
I have enough cousins that I have helped raise over the years I get a pass hopefully, lol?
I helped to raise a few cousins and step-nephews/step-nieces as well. Commendable, for sure, but no pass for you.
I'm not talking just two here. I have 50+ cousins that I helped w in babysitting, watching, etc. I want a pass damnit... I once dated a girl w a kid for 2 years. That should account for something...
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
Are you indoctrinating or teaching? That is where I would draw the line.
But where are you drawing that line? Is taking children to church indoctrination? In my opinion, yes. How about taking kids to help out in a soup kitchen or a shelter for homeless people? What about an animal shelter?
I would suggest that views on what is indoctrination and what is teaching depend on who is doing the observing. Why is it widely viewed as a good thing to indoctrinate kids into religion but it's suspect if you indoctrinate them into human rights issues? I know which views I would rather share with a child.
Obviously I would be in favour of talking to the kids about what your reasons are, why you view the world and your place in it the way you do, and what your values are.
Whataboutisms? I never said anything about religion, not sure how that got thrown in?
What I see in the school is to me, indoctrinating.
I know you didn't say anything about religion. I did, while using it as an example of another area where the line between indoctrination and teaching depends on who you ask and their opinion. Not sure why you would call that a "whataboutism". Can we not draw comparisons anymore to illustrate a point?
So now that that's clear, where are you drawing that line?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
edited February 2022
I would be slow to discounting the parenting experiences of people who never had children of their own. My own experiences, for example. I helped raise two boys for a few years (plus was an integral part of their lives for several). Their folks were in a difficult situation and I was there and was able to help. I had the boys with me much of the time and home schooled one of them through the 4th grade to get him caught up with things. I was also teaching at the time and obviously that gives one a lot of experience with kids. In fact, I probably cared about some of those kids more than their parents did.
So please don't jump to the conclusion that just because you brought kids into the world you think you know more about kids than those of us who didn't. That's making a huge assumption that is not always at all true.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I’m sharing my experience. And in my experience, it doesn’t count.
I have similar stories to tell as you and Chris. Then, later in life, I wound up with two of my own children, which is where our experiences of raising children diverge.
Nothing I experienced during those years of raising my Florida cracker family’s several oopsie kids prepared me at all for fatherhood.
So, again, commendable, but no pass from me.
Post edited by dankind on
I SAW PEARL JAM
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
CK, lets meet up in the Lounge Car and we'll commiserate. First brew is on me.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Who says they were forced? I'll take that with a huge grain of salt. Someone posting this has an agenda.
Would the poster be as outraged if the kids were holding pro-environment signs and chanting "Save the trees"?
You think a 5yo has the brain capacity to understand what they are really doing?
We involve children in activities that they don’t fully understand all the time; that’s how kids learn. Children are always soaking up the messages and values of the adults around them. None of us knows what the facts are of this event but I do know that our local primary schools regularly involve kids in community events for various causes. Would you argue that kids shouldn’t raise money for cancer research because they don’t fully understand oncology? That they shouldn’t be allowed into climate change marches because they don’t fully understand climate science? And if not, why would marching for human rights be any different?
Are you indoctrinating or teaching? That is where I would draw the line.
But where are you drawing that line? Is taking children to church indoctrination? In my opinion, yes. How about taking kids to help out in a soup kitchen or a shelter for homeless people? What about an animal shelter?
I would suggest that views on what is indoctrination and what is teaching depend on who is doing the observing. Why is it widely viewed as a good thing to indoctrinate kids into religion but it's suspect if you indoctrinate them into human rights issues? I know which views I would rather share with a child.
Obviously I would be in favour of talking to the kids about what your reasons are, why you view the world and your place in it the way you do, and what your values are.
Whataboutisms? I never said anything about religion, not sure how that got thrown in?
What I see in the school is to me, indoctrinating.
I know you didn't say anything about religion. I did, while using it as an example of another area where the line between indoctrination and teaching depends on who you ask and their opinion. Not sure why you would call that a "whataboutism". Can we not draw comparisons anymore to illustrate a point?
So now that that's clear, where are you drawing that line?
Kids are sponges and will pretty much do whatever the rest of the kids are doing. They follow.
Anything forced on to a child that doesn't have a say is a form of indoctrinating. That can go with sports and liking a certain team. Your father/cousin likes the Bears. You end up liking the Bears because there isn't a 2nd choice.
Something I do find interesting is letting children choose their own gender. Fluidity. Let the kid choose their path as they see fit. There is nothing indoctrinating about that and something I don't understand. If that is better for the kids then I am all for it.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,772
CK, lets meet up in the Lounge Car and we'll commiserate. First brew is on me.
Deal!
Alright! Here's to you, bud!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,126
I have not participated in BLM protests but my daughter most certainly has. She lives in DC, joined a protest group there and has gotten arrested. She was in the park that day that was cleared for Trump’s ridiculous photo opportunity. I gather she got protesting in her blood when in the early 2000’s I took her to many peaceful protest marches against the wars in the Middle East. I will continue to support BLM protest marches as my daughter continues to march peacefully.
peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Comments
It's all part of the same larger issue regarding BIPOC lives in our society
I've raised two five-year-olds (now nine and eleven), and they were/still are more than capable of learning about the systemic issues that they were/are facing because generations like yours and mine think that things "worked fine for us."
But where are you drawing that line? Is taking children to church indoctrination? In my opinion, yes. How about taking kids to help out in a soup kitchen or a shelter for homeless people? What about an animal shelter?
I would suggest that views on what is indoctrination and what is teaching depend on who is doing the observing. Why is it widely viewed as a good thing to indoctrinate kids into religion but it's suspect if you indoctrinate them into human rights issues? I know which views I would rather share with a child.
Obviously I would be in favour of talking to the kids about what your reasons are, why you view the world and your place in it the way you do, and what your values are.
yes you do you fucking liberal bully….
What I see in the school is to me, indoctrinating.
I know you didn't say anything about religion. I did, while using it as an example of another area where the line between indoctrination and teaching depends on who you ask and their opinion. Not sure why you would call that a "whataboutism". Can we not draw comparisons anymore to illustrate a point?
So now that that's clear, where are you drawing that line?
Anything forced on to a child that doesn't have a say is a form of indoctrinating. That can go with sports and liking a certain team. Your father/cousin likes the Bears. You end up liking the Bears because there isn't a 2nd choice.
Something I do find interesting is letting children choose their own gender. Fluidity. Let the kid choose their path as they see fit. There is nothing indoctrinating about that and something I don't understand. If that is better for the kids then I am all for it.
peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)