60 Minutes tonight

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

so it was announced that loan forgiveness is happening for a ton of people and a revamp of the program is in the works

I hope this is true.

dankind said:

static111 said:

dankind said:

static111 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

2 stories in tonights episode and its fairly well infuriating, so far......

I wasn't surprised at the FB piece.  I also don't think it's much of a whistleblower story.  The girl sounds like she has an axe to grind though.

this woman has an axe to grind? what gives that impression?

Some of the things she said, I don't recall exactly, but a few things she came off as wanting to stick it to FB.  

That is what I got from it.

I was also not the slightest surprised by the story.  It's been known for a while now that this is what they have been doing.

What was the other story that angered you?  The student loan one?  That blew me away and none of it was new either.  The part of that one that got me though was when the gal explained that her minimum payment was a cent under to qualify as a payment.  That one my jaw dropped.

Student loans are a complete scam.  Programmed all through school that the only way to get a future is to get an education. For those of us with less advantages, we get stuck borrowing at high compounding interest rates our whole lives. Unless we get lucky and get a decent job, then we pay those loans off for years before we actually get to begin building any sort of wealth.  There is a better way out there for sure.

My kids will be paying off mine.

luckily they don't transfer down the line...they may not receive any inheritance but they won't have to pay for yours at least.

That must be a recent change. My wife and I have always filed separately so that my debt doesn't impact her credit and also so that her salary isn't included in the calculations for my payment plan. I wonder if we can file jointly now with neither of us being penalized for the stupidest decision I've ever made in my life (i.e., higher ed).

my GF has been paying for years and still owes 6 figures

why wouldn't people open a low interest line of credit so they can pay it off decades earlier?

You'd have to ask her why it is structured and why she has tried to get it consolidated and can't.  She has done many a thing and hit a wall each time.

The principals are huge because the cost of higher education in the US is through the roof. Interest rates don't get much lower than they do on student loans. But with principals at six figures, those interest payments alone can be similar to a mortgage payment. And the balances just get bigger every year for a lot of us. Mine is well more than double what I originally borrowed at this point.

Mine was double what I actually borrowed.  For a couple years I put everything extra towards it.  Been making decent payments since the cares act lowered rates to zero.  I am now just below what I originally borrowed, nearly a decade later.  I might actually have a chance at paying it off if they decide to extend the interest freeze.

My wife really wants to buy a house, but I am in the lets not buy a house until we pay off our student loans camp, which would basically mean we may possibly never reach homeownership before becoming geriatrics, and we don't even have 6 figure debt combined.

I’m not a real estate expert, but my $0.02 is buy if you can afford it, unless you plan to move every 2-3 years. Most places it’s cheaper to own, meaning your mortgage is less than the rental rate. I bought my first home 8 years ago and it’s doubled in equity. My mortgage is less than half what the rental market would be by now.
That’s the whole reason people buy property to rent, they can get a $1000 mortgage and rent it for $1500 the first year. 10 years later they have the same mortgage (taxes and insurance will go up slightly) but by then they have a ton of equity that the renters paid for and are now renting the same place for $2000.

Agree on all points.  The problem is coming up with money for a down payment while paying rent and making those payments towards the student loans.  10% down gotta come from somewhere. And while I have been steadily making more money the last few years it seems like the price of everything goes up at the same time.  Could be worse, but it could be better.

You can do an FHA mortgage with 3.5% down. 

Yea but you’ll pay PMI(mortgage insurance) on the loan. Plus, if you only have 3.5% to put down, not sure it’s a good time to buy a home. Just my opinion 

Especially not in the austin, tx area with a 500k median selling price lol

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

I used to do mortgages for about 7 years. I’ll never forget the first time I ordered the appraisal. The appraiser asked “where do you need it to come in?”  I was shocked. 

Lol...yeah I started back in 2002. That was literally how it worked back then. Crazy. 

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

I used to do mortgages for about 7 years. I’ll never forget the first time I ordered the appraisal. The appraiser asked “where do you need it to come in?”  I was shocked. 

To some degree I understand that. If an appraiser knows what is needed/required they can always decide if it truly meets that value instead of their own calculated value that might be $1,000 off what they are looking for.

But that just opened the door for overly inflated values.

Broker tells the appraiser they need 300k on a house that should only be worth about  250k...appraiser knows this guy gives him a lot of business and it's implied that if the appraiser doesn't give him the value they're looking for, then they're just going to find another appraiser willing to play ball so he goes along with it. This then snowballs....a few years later when things come crashing down, millions of people are underwater on their homes with no way of getting out other than walking away and having their credit destroyed. 

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

I used to do mortgages for about 7 years. I’ll never forget the first time I ordered the appraisal. The appraiser asked “where do you need it to come in?”  I was shocked. 

To some degree I understand that. If an appraiser knows what is needed/required they can always decide if it truly meets that value instead of their own calculated value that might be $1,000 off what they are looking for.

But that just opened the door for overly inflated values.

Broker tells the appraiser they need 300k on a house that should only be worth about  250k...appraiser knows this guy gives him a lot of business and it's implied that if the appraiser doesn't give him the value they're looking for, then they're just going to find another appraiser willing to play ball so he goes along with it. This then snowballs....a few years later when things come crashing down, millions of people are underwater on their homes with no way of getting out other than walking away and having their credit destroyed. 

Right but it depends on the circumstances. Your example reflects fraud if the house is truly only worth $250K.

My point was that asking the question "where do you need the value" isn't necessarily fraudulent. 

Gern Blansten said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

I used to do mortgages for about 7 years. I’ll never forget the first time I ordered the appraisal. The appraiser asked “where do you need it to come in?”  I was shocked. 

To some degree I understand that. If an appraiser knows what is needed/required they can always decide if it truly meets that value instead of their own calculated value that might be $1,000 off what they are looking for.

But that just opened the door for overly inflated values.

Broker tells the appraiser they need 300k on a house that should only be worth about  250k...appraiser knows this guy gives him a lot of business and it's implied that if the appraiser doesn't give him the value they're looking for, then they're just going to find another appraiser willing to play ball so he goes along with it. This then snowballs....a few years later when things come crashing down, millions of people are underwater on their homes with no way of getting out other than walking away and having their credit destroyed. 

Right but it depends on the circumstances. Your example reflects fraud if the house is truly only worth $250K.

My point was that asking the question "where do you need the value" isn't necessarily fraudulent. 

I've been in the industry since 2002. The example I provided wasn't an outlier, it was the normal way of doing business up until the crash...

I think simply asking that question opens the door for fraud. It's better for everyone to have the appraiser be independent so he can provide a good honest value regardless of whether it kills a deal or not. 

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

I used to do mortgages for about 7 years. I’ll never forget the first time I ordered the appraisal. The appraiser asked “where do you need it to come in?”  I was shocked. 

To some degree I understand that. If an appraiser knows what is needed/required they can always decide if it truly meets that value instead of their own calculated value that might be $1,000 off what they are looking for.

That’s the responsible way of looking at it. But in my experience  , that’s not what they meant. 

I'm not arguing that there aren't shady appraisers but I have experienced many issues where appraiser doesn't give the value wanted and it has been a problem for the buyer.  

Values are inflated around my area but there are comparative sales to back them up. The question will be if there is a bubble and it breaks will these people that paid $180K for a $140K house be able to sell it for $160K in five years or will they end up owing more on it then it appraises for.

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

I used to do mortgages for about 7 years. I’ll never forget the first time I ordered the appraisal. The appraiser asked “where do you need it to come in?”  I was shocked. 

To some degree I understand that. If an appraiser knows what is needed/required they can always decide if it truly meets that value instead of their own calculated value that might be $1,000 off what they are looking for.

That’s the responsible way of looking at it. But in my experience  , that’s not what they meant. 

I'm not arguing that there aren't shady appraisers but I have experienced many issues where appraiser doesn't give the value wanted and it has been a problem for the buyer.  

Values are inflated around my area but there are comparative sales to back them up. The question will be if there is a bubble and it breaks will these people that paid $180K for a $140K house be able to sell it for $160K in five years or will they end up owing more on it then it appraises for.

Where do people buy homes for $180k, these days?

Do you live in Alaska?

North Dakota?

Please clue me in as well, I would like to know of an affordable place to live.  Here in Austin 500k+ is the median going rate, and that includes some real fixer uppers.

F Me In The Brain said:

GlowGirl said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

Gern Blansten said:

nicknyr15 said:

The Juggler said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

While not ideal, the mortgage will probably still be cheaper even with PMI than a rental in many cases. And in several years I think you can refinance and use your equity as a down payment and get rid of it.
After living in California my entire life, I left 9 years ago because I knew I'd never be able to own there. I was tired of rent going up and having no equity. When I moved to Colorado my entire mortgage on my 5 bedroom house was $6 less than my half of the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment in LA. Since then housing has about doubled, I don't know if I could move to Colorado now if I didn't then. And its still cheaper to buy than rent here. Housing is crazy in so many places, we could be close to another bubble popping.

yeah it's an odd market...houses in our downtown area that were selling for $140K three years ago are going for $180K immediately.  We have a lot of growth here but it does make you wonder if banks are lending based on inflated values and the market drops there are going to be issues.

The market is what the market is. It is nothing like it was 14 years ago when banks/brokers were flat out telling appraisers where they needed the house to appraised for and stuff. Nowadays we have to order them through third party vendors who randomly assign local appraisers. So there's no conflict of interest anymore.

There is going to be a correction at some point, but I don't think it will be anything like what happened back then. 

I used to do mortgages for about 7 years. I’ll never forget the first time I ordered the appraisal. The appraiser asked “where do you need it to come in?”  I was shocked. 

To some degree I understand that. If an appraiser knows what is needed/required they can always decide if it truly meets that value instead of their own calculated value that might be $1,000 off what they are looking for.

That’s the responsible way of looking at it. But in my experience  , that’s not what they meant. 

I'm not arguing that there aren't shady appraisers but I have experienced many issues where appraiser doesn't give the value wanted and it has been a problem for the buyer.  

Values are inflated around my area but there are comparative sales to back them up. The question will be if there is a bubble and it breaks will these people that paid $180K for a $140K house be able to sell it for $160K in five years or will they end up owing more on it then it appraises for.

Where do people buy homes for $180k, these days?

Do you live in Alaska?

North Dakota?

I think in NYC you could buy a parking spot for that

I know that even in some places where it used to be affordable to live (like VT, where I grew up and some of my family still lives) that the prices are out of control. 

When we were looking for a parking spot back in 2012, the least expensive we could find in our Brooklyn neighborhood was $200K. It was in a lot, not even a garage spot.