Capitol Riots 2

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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,390

  • Been a while since I posted on the forum, but I checked in about Ohana and this is a point of contention for me.  For clarity, at the time of the riot at the Capitol, I called for the harshest of measures... the HARSHEST... to be taken against anyone breaching the inside of the building.  I saw it as crossing a line between legitimate protest and unlawful rioting, and the fact that it was our Capitol building crossed a line that made me want the HARSHEST of responses at that moment.  Now, I'm happy with jail time for those who entered the Capitol building.

    That said, it was NOT an insurrection.  It simply wasn't.  Part of that is my opinion, but the more meaningful part is the charges.  If you look up: 8 US Code Sec 2383, you see the following law on Rebellion or Insurrection:

    • Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
    If you go to the database/table created by the Trump haters at Insider (who call it an "insurrection") and search out the word "Insurrection" you will see that not a single person was charged with this crime.  If it was an insurrection, then they should have been charged with it.  There are a lot of charges for the almost 600 people charged, but none of it was for "Rebellion or Insurrection."  Words and facts matter.

    https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    Been a while since I posted on the forum, but I checked in about Ohana and this is a point of contention for me.  For clarity, at the time of the riot at the Capitol, I called for the harshest of measures... the HARSHEST... to be taken against anyone breaching the inside of the building.  I saw it as crossing a line between legitimate protest and unlawful rioting, and the fact that it was our Capitol building crossed a line that made me want the HARSHEST of responses at that moment.  Now, I'm happy with jail time for those who entered the Capitol building.

    That said, it was NOT an insurrection.  It simply wasn't.  Part of that is my opinion, but the more meaningful part is the charges.  If you look up: 8 US Code Sec 2383, you see the following law on Rebellion or Insurrection:

    • Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
    If you go to the database/table created by the Trump haters at Insider (who call it an "insurrection") and search out the word "Insurrection" you will see that not a single person was charged with this crime.  If it was an insurrection, then they should have been charged with it.  There are a lot of charges for the almost 600 people charged, but none of it was for "Rebellion or Insurrection."  Words and facts matter.

    https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1

    So, Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman's deaths weren't murders?
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  • Ummmmmm... what??????  OJ was charged with First Degree Murder.  Regardless of the verdict, he was charged with the crime being discussed, unlike the defendants in the current situation.  As I said, no charges for Rebellion or Insurrection were filed against any of those charged with crimes on Jan 6.   Your comment makes no sense, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    Ummmmmm... what??????  OJ was charged with First Degree Murder.  Regardless of the verdict, he was charged with the crime being discussed, unlike the defendants in the current situation.  As I said, no charges for Rebellion or Insurrection were filed against any of those charged with crimes on Jan 6.   Your comment makes no sense, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
    The absence of charges for a specific crime doesn't mean the crime didn't occur. My guess is that that prosecutors have a more difficult challenge in obtaining a conviction for rebellion/insurrection than they do for the charges as listed. If they don't cop a plea, they'll be convicted of one or more lesser charges and pay some penalty, rather than going scot free because a jury wasn't convinced of rebellion/insurrection. 50% chance they get convicted of rebellion/insurrection or 99% chance of being convicted of one or more of a lesser charge. They need to pay something and as I would prefer a conviction for rebellion/insurrection, I'll take what the government can obtain. They need to pay some price, even if its less than desired.

    I'm sure OJ was offered 2nd degree murder if he pleaded and avoided trial. Happens all the time.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    Been a while since I posted on the forum, but I checked in about Ohana and this is a point of contention for me.  For clarity, at the time of the riot at the Capitol, I called for the harshest of measures... the HARSHEST... to be taken against anyone breaching the inside of the building.  I saw it as crossing a line between legitimate protest and unlawful rioting, and the fact that it was our Capitol building crossed a line that made me want the HARSHEST of responses at that moment.  Now, I'm happy with jail time for those who entered the Capitol building.

    That said, it was NOT an insurrection.  It simply wasn't.  Part of that is my opinion, but the more meaningful part is the charges.  If you look up: 8 US Code Sec 2383, you see the following law on Rebellion or Insurrection:

    • Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
    If you go to the database/table created by the Trump haters at Insider (who call it an "insurrection") and search out the word "Insurrection" you will see that not a single person was charged with this crime.  If it was an insurrection, then they should have been charged with it.  There are a lot of charges for the almost 600 people charged, but none of it was for "Rebellion or Insurrection."  Words and facts matter.

    https://www.insider.com/all-the-us-capitol-pro-trump-riot-arrests-charges-names-2021-1

    I don't necessarily think it's an insurrection, even though several Republicans called it as such in the immediate aftermath.  However, just because something wasn't charged doesn't mean it didn't meet the statutory definition.  Charging someone with that crime is a high bar, needing clear evidence of intent.  It's interesting that you chose §2383, but I have believed §2384 could have been charged to some of the ones that have the graver conspiracy charges.  This is seditious conspiracy and I think there is no doubt that several had the intent to commit what I have bolded.

    If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    To be crystal clear, the attempt to prevent the lawful counting of the electoral college votes, as required by the Constitution, was seditious conspiracy. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    edited July 2021
    This explains it well and as the investigations continue, charges may very well be upgraded.

    https://www.themarshallproject.org/2021/01/08/a-civilian-s-guide-to-insurrection-legalese

    Insurrection

    “What happened here today was an insurrection,” said Sen. Mitt Romney, Republican of Utah, on Wednesday night.

    Insurrection also falls under the same suite of federal laws as sedition, and the two can be difficult to distinguish. But it is charged by federal prosecutors far more rarely—almost never in American history. It means, essentially, to incite, assist in or engage in a full-on rebellion against the government: a step beyond just conspiring against it, and requiring that significant violence be involved.

    Cliven Bundy, a Nevada rancher, mounted an armed standoff with the federal government in 2014—his son, Ammon Bundy, did the same in Oregon in 2016—on the basis of an explicitly anti-U.S. government philosophy. Still, prosecutors did not charge them with insurrection, which legal experts say is nearly impossible to prove in court.

    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    This explains it well and as the investigations continue, charges may very well be upgraded.

    https://www.themarshallproject.org/2021/01/08/a-civilian-s-guide-to-insurrection-legalese

    Insurrection

    “What happened here today was an insurrection,” said Sen. Mitt Romney, Republican of Utah, on Wednesday night.

    Insurrection also falls under the same suite of federal laws as sedition, and the two can be difficult to distinguish. But it is charged by federal prosecutors far more rarely—almost never in American history. It means, essentially, to incite, assist in or engage in a full-on rebellion against the government: a step beyond just conspiring against it, and requiring that significant violence be involved.

    Cliven Bundy, a Nevada rancher, mounted an armed standoff with the federal government in 2014—his son, Ammon Bundy, did the same in Oregon in 2016—on the basis of an explicitly anti-U.S. government philosophy. Still, prosecutors did not charge them with insurrection, which legal experts say is nearly impossible to prove in court.

    damn I'm good!  
  • Ummmmmm... what??????  OJ was charged with First Degree Murder.  Regardless of the verdict, he was charged with the crime being discussed, unlike the defendants in the current situation.  As I said, no charges for Rebellion or Insurrection were filed against any of those charged with crimes on Jan 6.   Your comment makes no sense, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
    The absence of charges for a specific crime doesn't mean the crime didn't occur. My guess is that that prosecutors have a more difficult challenge in obtaining a conviction for rebellion/insurrection than they do for the charges as listed.
    mrussel1 said:
    However, just because something wasn't charged doesn't mean it didn't meet the statutory definition.  Charging someone with that crime is a high bar, needing clear evidence of intent.
    Most of these people were charged with numerous offenses, so charging Sec 2383 along with the others presumably would've been done if there were the remotest of possibility of getting a conviction, as even if the prosecution of that charge weren't successful, it wouldn't preclude those charged with being convicted of the numerous other offenses for which they were charged.  In addition, it shouldn't matter how high the bar is or how challenging it would be to get a conviction for insurrection; members of Congress and other public figures are openly saying that this is worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor... well, we went to wars over those events.  A more challenging prosecution should be the least of the government's concerns if the allegation of "insurrection" isn't just divisive hyperbole.  I suggest it is just divisive hyperbole, and should be ceased at once.  By all means, lock these assclowns up, and for a lot more than 8 months, but this wasn't an insurrection.  Again, simply my opinion, but the lack of charges seems to back me up somewhat.
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  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,827
    edited July 2021
    Ummmmmm... what??????  OJ was charged with First Degree Murder.  Regardless of the verdict, he was charged with the crime being discussed, unlike the defendants in the current situation.  As I said, no charges for Rebellion or Insurrection were filed against any of those charged with crimes on Jan 6.   Your comment makes no sense, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
    The absence of charges for a specific crime doesn't mean the crime didn't occur. My guess is that that prosecutors have a more difficult challenge in obtaining a conviction for rebellion/insurrection than they do for the charges as listed.
    mrussel1 said:
    However, just because something wasn't charged doesn't mean it didn't meet the statutory definition.  Charging someone with that crime is a high bar, needing clear evidence of intent.
    Most of these people were charged with numerous offenses, so charging Sec 2383 along with the others presumably would've been done if there were the remotest of possibility of getting a conviction, as even if the prosecution of that charge weren't successful, it wouldn't preclude those charged with being convicted of the numerous other offenses for which they were charged.  In addition, it shouldn't matter how high the bar is or how challenging it would be to get a conviction for insurrection; members of Congress and other public figures are openly saying that this is worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor... well, we went to wars over those events.  A more challenging prosecution should be the least of the government's concerns if the allegation of "insurrection" isn't just divisive hyperbole.  I suggest it is just divisive hyperbole, and should be ceased at once.  By all means, lock these assclowns up, and for a lot more than 8 months, but this wasn't an insurrection.  Again, simply my opinion, but the lack of charges seems to back me up somewhat.
    Or if it's a 9/11/Pearl Harbor event, go to fucking war. Take them all out fucking Mossad Munich style.

    At the very least, strip them of their US citizenship and the rights and privileges that accompany it.
    Post edited by dankind on
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    Ummmmmm... what??????  OJ was charged with First Degree Murder.  Regardless of the verdict, he was charged with the crime being discussed, unlike the defendants in the current situation.  As I said, no charges for Rebellion or Insurrection were filed against any of those charged with crimes on Jan 6.   Your comment makes no sense, unless I'm misunderstanding your point.
    The absence of charges for a specific crime doesn't mean the crime didn't occur. My guess is that that prosecutors have a more difficult challenge in obtaining a conviction for rebellion/insurrection than they do for the charges as listed.
    mrussel1 said:
    However, just because something wasn't charged doesn't mean it didn't meet the statutory definition.  Charging someone with that crime is a high bar, needing clear evidence of intent.
    Most of these people were charged with numerous offenses, so charging Sec 2383 along with the others presumably would've been done if there were the remotest of possibility of getting a conviction, as even if the prosecution of that charge weren't successful, it wouldn't preclude those charged with being convicted of the numerous other offenses for which they were charged.  In addition, it shouldn't matter how high the bar is or how challenging it would be to get a conviction for insurrection; members of Congress and other public figures are openly saying that this is worse than 9/11 and Pearl Harbor... well, we went to wars over those events.  A more challenging prosecution should be the least of the government's concerns if the allegation of "insurrection" isn't just divisive hyperbole.  I suggest it is just divisive hyperbole, and should be ceased at once.  By all means, lock these assclowns up, and for a lot more than 8 months, but this wasn't an insurrection.  Again, simply my opinion, but the lack of charges seems to back me up somewhat.
    No, a federal prosecutor shouldn't charge someone under the 'remotest' of possibilities for a conviction.  The standard for a federal prosecutor is that the evidence would lead to a probable conviction.  In fact, avoiding an acquittal is a main tenant of federal prosecution. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    edited July 2021
    If only George Floyd had been afforded the same level of "justice." Gotta love the last line. And I have no sympathy for any of these people. None.

    What were the Capitol rioters thinking on Jan. 6?

    Robert Gieswein is a good man, according to family and friends, who describe him as gentle and compassionate. His mother says he has “an amazing work ethic.” His younger sister calls him “the most inspiring person in my life.” He bought clothes and shoes for the residents of a nursing home where he worked as a nurse’s aide. The 24-year-old had no criminal history when he traveled to Washington, D.C., in January and, according to the U.S. government, joined a violent siege of the U.S. Capitol.

    Gieswein appears to be affiliated with the radical militia group the Three Percenters, the FBI says, and the leader of a “private paramilitary training group” called the Woodland Wild Dogs. On Jan. 6, he donned goggles, a camouflage shirt, an army-style helmet and a military-style vest reinforced with an armored plate and a black pouch emblazoned with “MY MOM THINKS I’M SPECIAL.” Then, wielding a baseball bat and a noxious spray, he stormed the U.S. Capitol, attacked a federal officer and helped halt the certification of the 2020 presidential election, the government claims.

    Gieswein has pleaded not guilty to six criminal counts, including assaulting an officer and destruction of government property. Now he wants to be let out of jail, subject to very strict conditions, while he awaits trial — because the man he really is, according to his lawyer, is not the man the government says he was on that day.

    “If what the government says is true, then Mr. Gieswein committed assault on January 6,” federal public defender Ann Mason Rigby said July 1 during a hearing on his detention. “The question before the court is: Is he incorrigibly violent? Is that a characteristic that cannot be controlled? And that’s why you have to look at his history.”

    That’s what the U.S. District Court in D.C. is doing with at least 535 people who were somehow involved in the breach of the Capitol; there are hundreds of ongoing investigations beyond that, according to FBI Director Christopher A. Wray.

    Continued next post 

    Post edited by Kat on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    edited July 2021

    Continued from previous post

    It's a lot to absorb, psychologically and legally. The FBI is still tracking down participants and digging through their life stories. D.C. judges are handling multiple hearings per day; at least 11 were on the court's calendar on Monday alone. Defendants languish in jail as their families suffer. Attorneys are deluged with video and photo evidence produced by their own clients and gathered by the government. Amid the echoes and static of remote hearings, players are debating the differences between a principal actor and an aider or abettor, if a "momentary lapse in judgment" could last multiple hours, and whether a weapon meets the legal definition of "dangerous" if it didn't cause serious harm.

    Post edited by Kat on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,258

    Continued from previous post

    It's a lot to absorb, psychologically and legally. The FBI is still tracking down participants and digging through their life stories. D.C. judges are handling multiple hearings per day; at least 11 were on the court's calendar on Monday alone. Defendants languish in jail as their families suffer. Attorneys are deluged with video and photo evidence produced by their own clients and gathered by the government. Amid the echoes and static of remote hearings, players are debating the differences between a principal actor and an aider or abettor, if a "momentary lapse in judgment" could last multiple hours, and whether a weapon meets the legal definition of "dangerous" if it didn't cause serious harm.

    Exactly I don’t have a microdot of pity for anyone who walked stormed or danced into the capitol screw them all !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,524
    So many idiots....

     Bumble match turns in January 6 suspect who allegedly whipped police. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/politics/capitol-riot-bumble-dating-app-match-andrew-taake/index.html
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,425

    Justice Department leaves Rep. Mo Brooks on his own in Jan. 6 lawsuitHouse General Counsel's Office also declines to take a side in member-vs.-member litigation
    Alabama Republican Rep Mo Brooks here talking with Capitol Policel won039t get the backing of the Justice Department or House lawyers in his bid to be removed from a lawsuit related to the Jan 6 mob attack on the Capitol Tom WilliamsCQ Roll Call file photo
    Alabama Republican Rep. Mo Brooks, here talking with Capitol Policel, won't get the backing of the Justice Department or House lawyers in his bid to be removed from a lawsuit related to the Jan. 6 mob attack on the Capitol. (Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call file photo)

    By Todd Ruger
    Posted July 28, 2021 at 12:19pm

    Alabama Republican Rep. Mo Brooks will have a lonely fight to get legal protection from California Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell’s lawsuit over the Jan. 6 mob attack on the Capitol, now that government lawyers declined to back Brooks.

    The House General Counsel’s Office told a federal judge that it was not appropriate for House lawyers to weigh in on whether Brooks should be removed from the lawsuit stemming from his claim that he was acting within the scope of his employment as a member of Congress.

    That’s because the litigation pits one current member of Congress against another as individuals and “does not challenge any institutional action of the House or any of its component entities,” House General Counsel Doug Letter wrote in a court filing on Tuesday.

    And the Justice Department took a harder and more judgmental line later Tuesday when it declined to certify that Brooks had been acting within his official role as a member of Congress when he spoke at a rally ahead of the attack.

    “Brooks cannot show that his actions in inciting a deadly riot were somehow within the scope of his federal employment,” the Justice Department wrote.

    Brooks, who has filed his own responses in Swalwell’s lawsuit, has until Aug. 10 to file a response to the House General Counsel’s Office and the Justice Department.

    Swalwell filed a lawsuit in March that accuses Brooks, former President Donald Trump and others of directly inciting the attack on the Capitol. It describes how Brooks promoted and spoke at the rally near the Washington Monument before the attack.

    A federal judge will ultimately decide whether Brooks qualifies for a federal law that essentially gives immunity to government employees or officials on claims for negligent or wrongful acts when acting within the scope of their official duties.

    The statute allows members of Congress to have the United States substituted as the defendant in such a suit, and the government — not the lawmaker — bears any resulting liability.

    The House generally has a strong institutional interest in defending its traditionally broad view of what counts as a member acting within the scope of their office. The House General Counsel’s Office, under control of the Democrats because they have a majority, had not weighed in on the member-vs.-member lawsuit.

    The office kept that stance Tuesday even when the judge asked them to weigh in. Letter pointed to the same stance in a 2007 lawsuit, when then-Rep. John A. Boehner, R-Ohio, sued Rep. James McDermott, D-Wash., for disclosing to reporters a recording of a conference call with Republican leadership that a couple in Florida had intercepted on a police scanner radio.

    The Justice Department based its stance in the Brooks case in part on a letter from California Democratic Rep. Zoe Lofgren, the chair of the House Administration Committee, that states that Brooks undercut his own case for protections.

    “Essentially, in deflecting the allegation that his speech was an incitement to violence, Representative Brooks has sworn under oath to the court that his conduct was instead in furtherance of political campaigns,” Lofgren wrote to the DOJ.

    Standards of conduct for members and House precedent “are clear that campaign activity is outside the scope of official duties and not a permissible use of official resources,” Lofgren wrote.

    Brooks, in a petition he filed himself, points out that his tweets and his speech at the rally centered on the contested presidential election and whether to certify the state electoral counts, which was the business before Congress on the day of the Jan. 6 attack.

    The courts could decide that Brooks’ speech that day falls under the scope of official activities, such as communicating with the public on matters of public concern.

    Brooks was among the 147 Republican members of Congress who voted to reject votes from at least one state in the hours after the Trump-inspired mob’s attack delayed the process of counting electoral votes to determine the outcome of the presidential election.

    The Justice Department, in its filing, argues in part that the law that governs how Congress counts electoral votes does not give Brooks a right to challenge state results.

    continues ..




    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    Seems 3D is back in vogue! There's always more to the story, like bamboo fibers, overseas ballots, hacked ballot tabulating machines and dead people voting. Freedumbs gonna dumb. 'Murica, home of the scared. 

    As many Republicans try to rewrite history of Jan. 6 attack, Sen. Ron Johnson suggests FBI knew more than it has said

    A Republican senator suggested in a private conversation Saturday, without evidence, that the FBI knew more about the planning before the Jan. 6 Capitol riot than it has revealed so far, according to a video obtained by The Washington Post.

    The comments from Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), made after a political event at a Wauwatosa, Wis., hotel, reflect the spread of an unfounded claim that has traveled from far-right commentators to Tucker Carlson’s Fox News show to the highest levels of the GOP.

    “I don’t say this publicly, but are you watching what’s happening in Michigan?” Johnson said while discussing the Capitol attack with some of the event’s attendees. “. . . So you think the FBI had fully infiltrated the militias in Michigan, but they don’t know squat about what was happening on January 6th or what was happening with these groups? I’d say there is way more to the story.”

    Later on.............

    The claims were based on the false assumption that those named in numerous court filings as “unindicted co-conspirators” were federal agents or informants. Carlson, for instance, said on his June 15 show that “in potentially every single case, they were FBI operatives.”

    In fact, under federal case law, federal prosecutors cannot refer to federal operatives as “co-conspirators,” because they are acting on behalf of the government, not as part of the conspiracy. Instead, “unindicted co-conspirators” are referred to as such for other reasons, including a lack of evidence to file charges or an after-the-fact cooperation agreement with prosecutors.

    3D makes an appearance!.............

    Asked about Johnson’s claims, Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill pointed to a recent statement from the speaker’s office calling the GOP campaign to blame Pelosi an act of “deflection, distortion, and disinformation” and a “pathetic attempt to distract” from the select committee’s work.

    What's a senator without referencing freedumb?..........................

    The video of Johnson’s remarks was taken by Bridget Kurt, a 49-year-old Atlanta resident and hospice employee who was staying at the Radisson hotel in Wauwatosa while visiting family. She said she approached Johnson in the hotel bar after the political event ended and the premises were reopened to the public.

    Kurt said she was compelled to confront Johnson as a lifelong Republican who has been dismayed with party leaders’ handling of the coronavirus pandemic and the Jan. 6 attack.

    “I am so tired of the conspiracy theorists and the Trumpsters destroying our country, our world and our Republican Party,” said Kurt, a Wisconsin native who said she campaigned for Paul D. Ryan in the former House speaker’s early congressional races. “It’s sad, because Wisconsin is better than this.”

    Johnson, who is nearing the end of his second term and has not yet announced whether he plans to seek reelection, has been a prominent voice among elected Republicans urging skepticism of coronavirus vaccinations, questioning potential side effects and vocally opposing vaccine mandates.

    “It’s time for Americans to reclaim their freedom,” he said in a recent statement opposing President Biden’s vaccination rules for federal employees.

    Kurt is heard addressing Johnson at the end of the four-minute recording: “I just want to let you know there truly is a surge in Georgia. I work in hospice. So I just want to make sure you’re encouraging people to get the vaccine.”

    “I’m not going to do that,” Johnson responded as his supporters jeered Kurt. “I don’t encourage or discourage.”

    The skit continues....................

    Ron Johnson on video: FBI knew more about Jan. 6 riot - The Washington Post

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,769
    The FBI always knows more than it says. I'll bet they know more about Senator Johnson too.

    Falling down,...not staying down
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    Kat said:
    The FBI always knows more than it says. I'll bet they know more about Senator Johnson too.

    I don't disagree but the proper forum for finding out about what the FBI knew/knows, and when is with the investigating committee, not casting inaccurate legal aspersions (asparagus) in the right wing media echo chamber. But alas, that would allow for and give legitimacy to the committee and we certainly can't have that. The funny thing is, it was POOTWH's DOJ and FBI "that knew more about the tourist visit before it happened."

    I also agree that the FBI knows a whole lot more about the repub complicity and is just waiting to be asked in the appropriate forum.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,425
    Capitol rioters enter 1st guilty pleas to assaulting police
    By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN
    2 hours ago

    A New Jersey gym owner and a Washington state man on Friday became the first people charged in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol to plead guilty to assaulting a law enforcement officer during the deadly siege.

    The pair of plea deals with federal prosecutors could be a benchmark for dozens of other cases in which Capitol rioters are charged with attacking police as part of an effort to halt the certification of President Joe Biden’s election victory. Both defendants face more than three years in prison if a judge adheres to estimated sentencing guidelines spelled out in the plea agreements.

    The estimated sentencing guidelines for Scott Kevin Fairlamb range from about 3 1/2 to 4 1/4 years in prison. But the judge isn't bound by that recommendation when he sentences Fairlamb, a 44-year-old former mixed martial arts fighter who owned Fairlamb Fit gym in Pompton Lakes, New Jersey. Fairlamb's lawyer and prosecutors can seek a sentence above or below those guidelines.

    The sentencing guidelines in Devlyn Thompson's plea deal recommend a slightly higher sentence than Fairlamb, ranging from less than four years to 4 3/4 years in prison. After Fairlamb's hearing, Thompson, 28, of Puyallup, Washington, pleaded guilty to assaulting a police officer with a dangerous weapon, a baton.

    The same judge who accepted Fairlamb's guilty plea ordered Thompson to be jailed in Seattle. Thompson had been free since his participation in the Capitol riot.

    The pleas come less than two weeks after a group of police officers testified at a congressional hearing about their harrowing confrontations with the mob of insurrectionists. Five officers who were at the Capitol that day have died, four of them by suicide. The Justice Department has said that rioters assaulted approximately 140 police officers on Jan. 6. About 80 of them were U.S. Capitol Police officers and about 60 were from the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department.

    Fairlamb, whose brother is a U.S. Secret Service agent, was one of the first people to breach the Capitol after other rioters smashed windows using riot shields and kicked out a locked door, according to federal prosecutors. After leaving the building, Fairlamb harassed a line of police officers, shouting in their faces and blocking their progress through the mob, prosecutors wrote in a court filing.

    A video showed him holding a collapsible baton and shouting, “What (do) patriots do? We f——— disarm them and then we storm the f——— Capitol!”

    Assistant U.S. Attorney Tejpal Chawla said Thompson was on the front lines of the most violent clashes that day, in a tunnel at the Capitol.

    “This is one of the largest domestic terrorism events in U.S. history, where a group of individuals attacked the citadel of our constitutional democracy in an effort to overthrow the valid election results of the president of the United States,” Chawla said.

    Thomas Durkin, one of Thompson's attorneys, said Jan. 6 was a “horrible, horrible event” but disputed the prosecutor's characterization of the attack.

    “I think it's dangerous to start throwing around ‘domestic terrorism’ in circumstances like this,” he said.

    U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth set a sentencing date of Sept. 27 for both Thompson and Fairlamb, who has been jailed since his Jan. 22 arrest at his home in Stockholm, New Jersey.

    Thompson wasn’t arrested after he was charged last month with one count of assaulting a Metropolitan Police officer. His attorneys said in a court filing that he has autism spectrum disorder.

    Fairlamb's lawyer, Harley Breite, said he will ask the judge for a sentence below the government's recommended guidelines.

    Fairlamb’s involvement in the riot has “eviscerated large parts of his life,” his attorney said.

    “He has lost his business. The mortgage on his home where he lives with his wife is in peril. And he has been publicly disgraced,” Breite said during an interview after Friday’s remote hearing.

    Breite said his client wanted to “pay the price for what he had done and then move on with his life.”

    “It wasn’t so much about the deal. It was about his desire to own up to what he had done, make himself a better person for the future and move on,” the lawyer added.

    Fairlamb pleaded guilty to two counts, obstruction of an official proceeding and assaulting a Metropolitan Police Department officer. The counts carry a maximum of more than 20 years in prison.

    Another video captured Fairlamb shoving and punching a police officer in the head after he left the Capitol, according to an FBI agent’s affidavit.

    “As a former MMA fighter, the defendant was well aware of the injury he could have inflicted on (the officer),” prosecutors wrote. “His actions and words on that day all indicate a specific intent to obstruct a congressional proceeding through fear, intimidation, and violence, including violence against uniformed police officers.”

    Fairlamb’s brother was one of the Secret Service agents assigned to protect former first lady Michelle Obama, Breite said.

    Fairlamb’s social media accounts indicated that he subscribed to the QAnon conspiracy theory and promoted a bogus claim that former President Donald Trump would become the first president of “the new Republic” on March 4, prosecutors wrote. QAnon has centered on the baseless belief that Trump was fighting against a cabal of Satan-worshipping, child sex trafficking cannibals, including “deep state” enemies, prominent Democrats and Hollywood elites.

    The rioters believed Trump's lies that he was robbed of a second term because of massive voter fraud nationwide. In fact, claims of massive fraud have been refuted by numerous judges, state election officials and even Trump’s own administration.

    On July 27, a House panel investigating the deadly riot heard emotional testimony from four police officers who tried to defend the Capitol when the mob of Trump supporters stormed the building.

    At least nine people who were at the Capitol on Jan. 6 died during or after the rioting, including Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who collapsed after he was sprayed by rioters with a chemical irritant. Four other police officers have died by suicide, including two Metropolitan Police officers who were found dead within the past month.

    Police shot and killed a woman, Ashli Babbitt, who was part of a group of people trying to beat down the doors of the House chamber. Three other Trump supporters who died had suffered medical emergencies.

    continued....




    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,258
    mickeyrat said:
    Capitol rioters enter 1st guilty pleas to assaulting police
    By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN
    2 hours ago

    A New Jersey gym owner and a Washington state man on Friday became the first people charged in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol to plead guilty to assaulting a law enforcement officer during the deadly siege.

    The pair of plea deals with federal prosecutors could be a benchmark for dozens of other cases in which Capitol rioters are charged with attacking police as part of an effort to halt the certification of President Joe Biden’s election victory. Both defendants face more than three years in prison if a judge adheres to estimated sentencing guidelines spelled out in the plea agreements.

    The estimated sentencing guidelines for Scott Kevin Fairlamb range from about 3 1/2 to 4 1/4 years in prison. But the judge isn't bound by that recommendation when he sentences Fairlamb, a 44-year-old former mixed martial arts fighter who owned Fairlamb Fit gym in Pompton Lakes, New Jersey. Fairlamb's lawyer and prosecutors can seek a sentence above or below those guidelines.

    The sentencing guidelines in Devlyn Thompson's plea deal recommend a slightly higher sentence than Fairlamb, ranging from less than four years to 4 3/4 years in prison. After Fairlamb's hearing, Thompson, 28, of Puyallup, Washington, pleaded guilty to assaulting a police officer with a dangerous weapon, a baton.

    The same judge who accepted Fairlamb's guilty plea ordered Thompson to be jailed in Seattle. Thompson had been free since his participation in the Capitol riot.

    The pleas come less than two weeks after a group of police officers testified at a congressional hearing about their harrowing confrontations with the mob of insurrectionists. Five officers who were at the Capitol that day have died, four of them by suicide. The Justice Department has said that rioters assaulted approximately 140 police officers on Jan. 6. About 80 of them were U.S. Capitol Police officers and about 60 were from the Washington, D.C., Metropolitan Police Department.

    Fairlamb, whose brother is a U.S. Secret Service agent, was one of the first people to breach the Capitol after other rioters smashed windows using riot shields and kicked out a locked door, according to federal prosecutors. After leaving the building, Fairlamb harassed a line of police officers, shouting in their faces and blocking their progress through the mob, prosecutors wrote in a court filing.

    A video showed him holding a collapsible baton and shouting, “What (do) patriots do? We f——— disarm them and then we storm the f——— Capitol!”

    Assistant U.S. Attorney Tejpal Chawla said Thompson was on the front lines of the most violent clashes that day, in a tunnel at the Capitol.

    “This is one of the largest domestic terrorism events in U.S. history, where a group of individuals attacked the citadel of our constitutional democracy in an effort to overthrow the valid election results of the president of the United States,” Chawla said.

    Thomas Durkin, one of Thompson's attorneys, said Jan. 6 was a “horrible, horrible event” but disputed the prosecutor's characterization of the attack.

    “I think it's dangerous to start throwing around ‘domestic terrorism’ in circumstances like this,” he said.

    U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth set a sentencing date of Sept. 27 for both Thompson and Fairlamb, who has been jailed since his Jan. 22 arrest at his home in Stockholm, New Jersey.

    Thompson wasn’t arrested after he was charged last month with one count of assaulting a Metropolitan Police officer. His attorneys said in a court filing that he has autism spectrum disorder.

    Fairlamb's lawyer, Harley Breite, said he will ask the judge for a sentence below the government's recommended guidelines.

    Fairlamb’s involvement in the riot has “eviscerated large parts of his life,” his attorney said.

    “He has lost his business. The mortgage on his home where he lives with his wife is in peril. And he has been publicly disgraced,” Breite said during an interview after Friday’s remote hearing.

    Breite said his client wanted to “pay the price for what he had done and then move on with his life.”

    “It wasn’t so much about the deal. It was about his desire to own up to what he had done, make himself a better person for the future and move on,” the lawyer added.

    Fairlamb pleaded guilty to two counts, obstruction of an official proceeding and assaulting a Metropolitan Police Department officer. The counts carry a maximum of more than 20 years in prison.

    Another video captured Fairlamb shoving and punching a police officer in the head after he left the Capitol, according to an FBI agent’s affidavit.

    “As a former MMA fighter, the defendant was well aware of the injury he could have inflicted on (the officer),” prosecutors wrote. “His actions and words on that day all indicate a specific intent to obstruct a congressional proceeding through fear, intimidation, and violence, including violence against uniformed police officers.”

    Fairlamb’s brother was one of the Secret Service agents assigned to protect former first lady Michelle Obama, Breite said.

    Fairlamb’s social media accounts indicated that he subscribed to the QAnon conspiracy theory and promoted a bogus claim that former President Donald Trump would become the first president of “the new Republic” on March 4, prosecutors wrote. QAnon has centered on the baseless belief that Trump was fighting against a cabal of Satan-worshipping, child sex trafficking cannibals, including “deep state” enemies, prominent Democrats and Hollywood elites.

    The rioters believed Trump's lies that he was robbed of a second term because of massive voter fraud nationwide. In fact, claims of massive fraud have been refuted by numerous judges, state election officials and even Trump’s own administration.

    On July 27, a House panel investigating the deadly riot heard emotional testimony from four police officers who tried to defend the Capitol when the mob of Trump supporters stormed the building.

    At least nine people who were at the Capitol on Jan. 6 died during or after the rioting, including Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who collapsed after he was sprayed by rioters with a chemical irritant. Four other police officers have died by suicide, including two Metropolitan Police officers who were found dead within the past month.

    Police shot and killed a woman, Ashli Babbitt, who was part of a group of people trying to beat down the doors of the House chamber. Three other Trump supporters who died had suffered medical emergencies.

    continued....




    I hope they all get the max sentence! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,425

    History, the adage goes, is written by the victors.
    Would that it were true.
    In the Civil War, the U.S. Army, at a staggering human cost, eventually crushed the traitors who took up arms against their own country. But Lost Cause mythology rewrote the rebellion as a conflict over states’ rights, portrayed Confederates as gallant heroes fighting impossible odds, romanticized plantation life and sanitized slavery. The fictions, taught to generations of southerners, fueled Jim Crow and white supremacy.
    In the retelling of Jan. 6, we see an echo of Lost Cause mythology. On that terrible day, terrorists took up arms against the United States, sacking the seat of the U.S. government in a deadly rampage. White supremacists marauded through the Capitol. It was a coup attempt, aimed at overturning the will of the people with brute force, encouraged by a defeated president and his allies. The Capitol Police and D.C. Metropolitan Police, badly outnumbered, ultimately prevailed in putting down the insurrection.
    But now the losers are trying to rewrite the history of that day. The terrorists were “patriots.” Theirs was a “normal tourist visit.” They weren’t armed. They were “hugging and kissing” the police. A woman, shot as she breached the last barrier keeping elected representatives from the mob, was a martyr shot in cold blood. The Capitol Police were ill-trained. It was Nancy Pelosi’s fault.
    The losers, again, are trying to write the history. They must not be allowed to succeed — for if they do, they will certainly try again to attack democracy.
    President Biden joined the battle against the revisionists on Thursday as he presented the Congressional Gold Medal to the police who saved democracy on Jan. 6. “We cannot allow history to be rewritten,” he said.
    In a speech honoring the heroism of the police, Biden, at one point brushing a tear from his eye, called the attackers what they were. “A mob of extremists and terrorists launched a violent and deadly assault on the People’s House and the sacred ritual to certify a free and fair election,” he said. “It was insurrection … It was unconstitutional. And maybe most important, it was fundamentally un-American.”
    To that list of labels, Ty Seidule adds one more: “It was a lynch mob.”
    Seidule is qualified to say so. A retired U.S. Army general, he taught history for two decades at West Point. Now at Hamilton College, he’s the author of “Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning with the Myth of the Lost Cause,” a disembowelment of Lost Cause lies he learned in his own upbringing as a White southerner.
    ['Cape Up' Podcast | How Ty Seidule went from revering Robert E. Lee to being one of his fiercest detractors]
    He told me of the disgust he felt when he saw a photo of an insurrectionist in the Capitol on Jan. 6 carrying the Confederate battle flag — “the Flag of Treason,” he calls it — past a portrait of Charles Sumner, the abolitionist senator nearly caned to death by Preston Brooks, a proslavery congressman from South Carolina. Seidule wanted to suit up in his old uniform and fight the Capitol terrorists. “The people who did that need to be in orange jumpsuits and shackles,” he said.
    In his book, Seidule writes of the importance of words in defeating the Lost Cause lies. It wasn’t “Union” against “Confederate,” he argues. It was the “U.S. Army fighting … against a rebel force that would not accept the results of a democratic election and chose armed rebellion.” Confederate generals didn’t fight with “honor”; they abrogated “an oath sworn to God to defend the United States” and “killed more U.S. Army soldiers than any other enemy, ever.” It wasn’t “the War Between the States,” as Lost Cause mythology would have it; the Civil War was, properly, “The War of the Rebellion.” They weren’t “plantations” as glorified by Margaret Mitchell, but “enslaved labor farms.” Writes Seidule: “Accurate language can help us destroy the lies of the Lost Cause.”
    So, too, can accurate language destroy the lies now being floated to justify Jan. 6.
    [Opinion by Ty Seidule: What to rename the Army bases that honor Confederate soldiers]
    These were not tourists. These were not patriots. They were terrorists, as D.C. police officer Daniel Hodges, savagely beaten on Jan. 6, labeled them in congressional testimony. They were armed — with rebar, poles, knives, bear spray, tasers and an untold number of firearms — and they were unspeakably violent in their attack on the duly elected government of the United States.
    The revisionist history serves a purpose: Sanitizing sedition so the foes of democracy will be able to attack it again, but successfully. This is why those who still revere our democracy must answer the lies with the true stories of Jan. 6 — again and again. “We’re not going to let them win the narrative,” Seidule said. “History is too important.”

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,425
    this is a very good question......


    Judge asks why Capitol rioters are paying just $1.5 million for attack, while U.S. taxpayers will pay more than $500 million
    By Spencer S. Hsu
    August 09 at 3:29 PM ET
    A federal judge on Monday questioned why U.S. prosecutors are asking Capitol riot defendants to pay only $1.5 million in restitution while American taxpayers are paying more than $500 million to cover the costs of the Jan. 6 attack by a pro-Trump mob.
    Chief U.S. District Judge Beryl A. Howell of Washington challenged the toughness of the Justice Department’s stance in a plea hearing for a Colorado Springs man who admitted to one of four nonviolent misdemeanor counts of picketing in the U.S. Capitol.
    Howell has already asked in another defendant’s plea hearing whether no-prison misdemeanor plea deals offered by the government are too lenient for individuals involved in “terrorizing members of Congress,” asking pointedly whether the government had “any concern about deterrence?”
    On Monday, she pressed the U.S. attorney’s office in Washington on why it was seeking to require only $2,000 in each felony case and $500 in each misdemeanor case.
    “I’m accustomed to the government being fairly aggressive in terms of fraud when there have been damages that accrue from a criminal act for the restitution amount,” said Howell, a former Brooklyn federal prosecutor and Senate Judiciary Committee general counsel.
    “Where we have Congress acting, appropriating all this money due directly to the events of January 6th, I have found the damage amount of less than $1.5 million — when all of us American taxpayers are about to foot the bill for close to half a billion dollars — a little bit surprising,” she said.
    [Congress passes $2.1 billion in emergency funding for Capitol security and Afghan resettlement]
    The judge alluded to a $2.1 billion security bill passed overwhelmingly July 29 by Congress to cover the costs of the Jan. 6 attack, including reimbursements totaling $521 million for the National Guard and $70 million to the Capitol Police, plus $300 million for Capitol security improvements.
    Authorities say the riot contributed to the deaths of five people during or immediately following the attack and the deaths by suicide of multiple police officers. The attack also led to assaults on nearly 140 officers and forced the evacuation of a joint session of Congress meeting to confirm the results of the 2020 presidential election.
    Assistant U.S. Attorney Clayton Henry O’Connor told Howell the government would explain how it computed the damage and restitution estimate before October.
    The department and U.S. attorney’s office declined to comment beyond court statements.
    [Jan. 6 riot caused $1.5 million in damage to Capitol — and U.S. prosecutors want defendants to pay]
    Prosecutors gave few details in early June when they put a price tag for the first time on damage done to the Capitol in the riots, saying in court filings that as of mid-May the sum totaled “approximately $1,495,326.55.”
    The basis of the estimate was not clear but appeared to reflect the immediate costs of replacing broken windows, doors and other property. A spokeswoman for the Architect of the Capitol said the agency gave damage assessments to the Justice Department, which calculated the per-case penalty, and separate assessments to House and Senate appropriators for wider security costs.
    Federal law allows judges at sentencing to order convicted offenders to reimburse victims for property damage and other losses, depending whether losses are a direct and foreseeable result of an offender’s crime. But the law also makes restitution a negotiable item pursuant to plea agreement.
    [National Guard leaders warn of cuts, furloughs if Congress doesn’t repay Jan. 6 debts soon]
    Howell on Monday eventually accepted the guilty plea of Glenn Wes Lee Croy, 46, who admitted traveling with an Ohio co-defendant to attend a rally for President Donald Trump at the Ellipse, walking to the Capitol, and standing at its steps for about an hour before entering the just-breached building at 2:20 p.m.

    continues.....


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,425
    suppose this goes here....


    Militia' involved in Michigan plot proposed attacking Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, feds say

    Jackie Borchardt
    The Columbus Dispatch

    Men charged with plotting to kidnap and overthrow Michigan's governor also had their sights on Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine, federal prosecutors disclosed in a court filing Monday.

    Fourteen men have been charged in the alleged plot, which federal investigators say involved abducting Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, and leaving her on a boat in the middle of Lake Michigan in retaliation for the state's COVID-19 restrictions. Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam, a Democrat, was also discussed as a potential target during a meeting of self-described "militia" members in Dublin, Ohio, an FBI agent testified in October.

    The mention of Ohio's governor, a Republican, in Monday's filing is new. The defendants have argued they were entrapped by the FBI and there was no plot. Prosecutors said in Monday's 22-page filing that's not possible because the accused "proposed attacking the governors of Michigan, Ohio, and Virginia" a month before meeting with an FBI informant.

    DeWine said in October that he "absolutely had no knowledge" about the plan before reading a news report and declined to answer questions about security measures for him and his staff. DeWine said the plan was "shocking" and "horrible" and "outside our political process."



    continues....



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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937
    which is why militia's should be "well regulated"....fucking insane
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    which is why militia's should be "well regulated"....fucking insane
    But then you’d have to take away everyone’s guns. So no, more guns are the answer.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,425
    Whitmet conspirator....


    Man gets 6 years in prison in Michigan governor kidnap plot
    By DAVID EGGERT and ED WHITE
    10 mins ago

    GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (AP) — A man upset over state-ordered coronavirus restrictions was sentenced to just over six years in prison Wednesday for planning to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a significant break that reflected his quick decision to cooperate and help agents build cases against others.

    Ty Garbin admitted his role in the alleged scheme weeks after his arrest last fall. He is among six men charged in federal court but the only one to plead guilty so far. It was a key victory for prosecutors as they try to prove an astonishing plot against the rest.

    Garbin apologized to Whitmer, who was not in court, and her family.

    “I cannot even begin to imagine the amount of stress and fear her family felt because of my actions. And for that I am truly sorry,” the 25-year-old aviation mechanic told the judge.

    In his plea agreement, Garbin said the six men trained at his property near Luther, Michigan, constructing a “shoot house” to resemble Whitmer’s vacation home and “assaulting it with firearms.”

    The government, noting Garbin’s exceptional cooperation, asked U.S. District Judge Robert Jonker to give him credit for helping investigators reinforce their case against his co-defendants.

    The “Constitution is designed to ensure that we work out our fundamental and different views peacefully, not at the point of a gun, not with some other blunt force threat or a kidnapping conspiracy," the judge said.

    Prosecutors recommended a nine-year prison term. But Jonker went shorter, at 6 1/4 years, saying he was convinced that Garbin was an “excellent prospect” to stay out of trouble when released from prison.


    continues....


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,814
    edited August 2021
    If Whitney loses, he’ll e pardoned 

    edit: federal charges. So if MAGA wins the White House 
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,072
    6 years isn’t enough 
    hippiemom = goodness
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