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I don't get it. Like with my examples, if you ban cigarettes, why not ban everything that is bad? Why single out cigarettes? I'm not a fan of smoking other than a cigar about once a week, but cigarettes are not the worst things we put in our bodies. So why target them and not fast food, energy drinks, soda, fatty/fried foods, processed meats? Lets ban working over time for our mental health too. Thats what doesn't make sense to me. If you go after tobacco because its for your own health, well there's probably at least a dozen things we consume on a regular basis that are worse. So why singe out one thing and ignore the rest? Or do we want the government that involved in what we do?tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
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Hobbes said:
The bible?mickeyrat said:Hobbes said:
Name a book or piece of music that is cause of death.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...turner diarieshitlers trash
"Helter Skelter?"
"Suicide Solution?"Yeah, bible has to be the #1 answer if someone is trying to connect a book with death. How many millions killed over the years in the name of the main character of that book?Lots.Making cigs illegal is not something I think the govt should do but if they are paying for healthcare and use that as the reason I would think they would need to look at buffets and super size meals at the same time. Obese folks cost a shitload and it is legal to try pretty much everything possible to make them fatter and more unhealthy.The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
I asked "what next" never saying it as a fact but a question. Surely you can see the difference in the 2?Hobbes said:
Take? You stated previously that New Zealanders willingly gave up their guns.tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Alcohol? Bungee jumping? Books? Music? Again, slippery slope fallacy.
If they banned the tobacco and went for Alcohol next It would sure be for some good convo.0 -
Those are all wonderful ideas that I would endorse. You make it sound like a bad idea.mace1229 said:
I don't get it. Like with my examples, if you ban cigarettes, why not ban everything that is bad? Why single out cigarettes? I'm not a fan of smoking other than a cigar about once a week, but cigarettes are not the worst things we put in our bodies. So why target them and not fast food, energy drinks, soda, fatty/fried foods, processed meats? Lets ban working over time for our mental health too. Thats what doesn't make sense to me. If you go after tobacco because its for your own health, well there's probably at least a dozen things we consume on a regular basis that are worse. So why singe out one thing and ignore the rest? Or do we want the government that involved in what we do?tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?0 -
If you had stopped at alcohol, then I would have been more inclined to agree with you. However, you leapt right to bungee jumping. Slippery slope. Much like your original argument: guns->cigarettes->books/music. Slippery slope.tempo_n_groove said:
I asked "what next" never saying it as a fact but a question. Surely you can see the difference in the 2?Hobbes said:
Take? You stated previously that New Zealanders willingly gave up their guns.tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Alcohol? Bungee jumping? Books? Music? Again, slippery slope fallacy.
If they banned the tobacco and went for Alcohol next It would sure be for some good convo.0 -
hold a referendum. let the public decideYour boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer0
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Depends on the public. Collectivist New Zealanders or Individualistic Americans?HughFreakingDillon said:hold a referendum. let the public decide0 -
NZ. this type of thing would NEVER fly in the states.Hobbes said:
Depends on the public. Collectivist New Zealanders or Individualistic Americans?HughFreakingDillon said:hold a referendum. let the public decideYour boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer0 -
Exactly. That's why many here are having a hard time with this concept. Their vision is skewed.HughFreakingDillon said:
NZ. this type of thing would NEVER fly in the states.Hobbes said:
Depends on the public. Collectivist New Zealanders or Individualistic Americans?HughFreakingDillon said:hold a referendum. let the public decide0 -
It asks a question. It also says to me, why stop there?Hobbes said:
If you had stopped at alcohol, then I would have been more inclined to agree with you. However, you leapt right to bungee jumping. Slippery slope. Much like your original argument: guns->cigarettes->books/music. Slippery slope.tempo_n_groove said:
I asked "what next" never saying it as a fact but a question. Surely you can see the difference in the 2?Hobbes said:
Take? You stated previously that New Zealanders willingly gave up their guns.tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Alcohol? Bungee jumping? Books? Music? Again, slippery slope fallacy.
If they banned the tobacco and went for Alcohol next It would sure be for some good convo.0 -
It is a bad idea when the government forces you to. Yes, giving up fats food would be good, but it should be your choice. The government shouldn't force you to. Should government force everyone to do yoga an hour a day to? Prison camp for those who dont?Hobbes said:
Those are all wonderful ideas that I would endorse. You make it sound like a bad idea.mace1229 said:
I don't get it. Like with my examples, if you ban cigarettes, why not ban everything that is bad? Why single out cigarettes? I'm not a fan of smoking other than a cigar about once a week, but cigarettes are not the worst things we put in our bodies. So why target them and not fast food, energy drinks, soda, fatty/fried foods, processed meats? Lets ban working over time for our mental health too. Thats what doesn't make sense to me. If you go after tobacco because its for your own health, well there's probably at least a dozen things we consume on a regular basis that are worse. So why singe out one thing and ignore the rest? Or do we want the government that involved in what we do?tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Fast food and ice cream is a poor diet. Its a good idea to give it up, but it should be your choice.
Let people make their own choices, many of us can do it in moderation. I enjoy ice cream. I dont eat it every day. Doesn't mean the government should come in and take it away.
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It is not unheard of for oppressive governments to limit expression and non-approved media, so I think it’s a valid argument.tempo_n_groove said:
It asks a question. It also says to me, why stop there?Hobbes said:
If you had stopped at alcohol, then I would have been more inclined to agree with you. However, you leapt right to bungee jumping. Slippery slope. Much like your original argument: guns->cigarettes->books/music. Slippery slope.tempo_n_groove said:
I asked "what next" never saying it as a fact but a question. Surely you can see the difference in the 2?Hobbes said:
Take? You stated previously that New Zealanders willingly gave up their guns.tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Alcohol? Bungee jumping? Books? Music? Again, slippery slope fallacy.
If they banned the tobacco and went for Alcohol next It would sure be for some good convo.0 -
Logical fallacy, that's why.tempo_n_groove said:
It asks a question. It also says to me, why stop there?Hobbes said:
If you had stopped at alcohol, then I would have been more inclined to agree with you. However, you leapt right to bungee jumping. Slippery slope. Much like your original argument: guns->cigarettes->books/music. Slippery slope.tempo_n_groove said:
I asked "what next" never saying it as a fact but a question. Surely you can see the difference in the 2?Hobbes said:
Take? You stated previously that New Zealanders willingly gave up their guns.tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Alcohol? Bungee jumping? Books? Music? Again, slippery slope fallacy.
If they banned the tobacco and went for Alcohol next It would sure be for some good convo.0 -
Too many people can't. That is why we have the health problems that we do in our country.mace1229 said:
It is a bad idea when the government forces you to. Yes, giving up fats food would be good, but it should be your choice. The government shouldn't force you to. Should government force everyone to do yoga an hour a day to? Prison camp for those who dont?Hobbes said:
Those are all wonderful ideas that I would endorse. You make it sound like a bad idea.mace1229 said:
I don't get it. Like with my examples, if you ban cigarettes, why not ban everything that is bad? Why single out cigarettes? I'm not a fan of smoking other than a cigar about once a week, but cigarettes are not the worst things we put in our bodies. So why target them and not fast food, energy drinks, soda, fatty/fried foods, processed meats? Lets ban working over time for our mental health too. Thats what doesn't make sense to me. If you go after tobacco because its for your own health, well there's probably at least a dozen things we consume on a regular basis that are worse. So why singe out one thing and ignore the rest? Or do we want the government that involved in what we do?tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Fast food and ice cream is a poor diet. Its a good idea to give it up, but it should be your choice.
Let people make their own choices, many of us can do it in moderation. I enjoy ice cream. I dont eat it every day. Doesn't mean the government should come in and take it away.
We should have the right to chose though, I agree with that. You can put the right to choose towards a many thing in our country also.0 -
You are viewing this through an individualistic lens. New Zealand is more of a collective and why they accept such sweeping changes.mace1229 said:
It is a bad idea when the government forces you to. Yes, giving up fats food would be good, but it should be your choice. The government shouldn't force you to. Should government force everyone to do yoga an hour a day to? Prison camp for those who dont?Hobbes said:
Those are all wonderful ideas that I would endorse. You make it sound like a bad idea.mace1229 said:
I don't get it. Like with my examples, if you ban cigarettes, why not ban everything that is bad? Why single out cigarettes? I'm not a fan of smoking other than a cigar about once a week, but cigarettes are not the worst things we put in our bodies. So why target them and not fast food, energy drinks, soda, fatty/fried foods, processed meats? Lets ban working over time for our mental health too. Thats what doesn't make sense to me. If you go after tobacco because its for your own health, well there's probably at least a dozen things we consume on a regular basis that are worse. So why singe out one thing and ignore the rest? Or do we want the government that involved in what we do?tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Fast food and ice cream is a poor diet. Its a good idea to give it up, but it should be your choice.
Let people make their own choices, many of us can do it in moderation. I enjoy ice cream. I dont eat it every day. Doesn't mean the government should come in and take it away.0 -
New Zealand has an oppressive government?PJPOWER said:
It is not unheard of for oppressive governments to limit expression and non-approved media, so I think it’s a valid argument.tempo_n_groove said:
It asks a question. It also says to me, why stop there?Hobbes said:
If you had stopped at alcohol, then I would have been more inclined to agree with you. However, you leapt right to bungee jumping. Slippery slope. Much like your original argument: guns->cigarettes->books/music. Slippery slope.tempo_n_groove said:
I asked "what next" never saying it as a fact but a question. Surely you can see the difference in the 2?Hobbes said:
Take? You stated previously that New Zealanders willingly gave up their guns.tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Alcohol? Bungee jumping? Books? Music? Again, slippery slope fallacy.
If they banned the tobacco and went for Alcohol next It would sure be for some good convo.0 -
mace1229 said:
It is a bad idea when the government forces you to. Yes, giving up fats food would be good, but it should be your choice. The government shouldn't force you to. Should government force everyone to do yoga an hour a day to? Prison camp for those who dont?Hobbes said:
Those are all wonderful ideas that I would endorse. You make it sound like a bad idea.mace1229 said:
I don't get it. Like with my examples, if you ban cigarettes, why not ban everything that is bad? Why single out cigarettes? I'm not a fan of smoking other than a cigar about once a week, but cigarettes are not the worst things we put in our bodies. So why target them and not fast food, energy drinks, soda, fatty/fried foods, processed meats? Lets ban working over time for our mental health too. Thats what doesn't make sense to me. If you go after tobacco because its for your own health, well there's probably at least a dozen things we consume on a regular basis that are worse. So why singe out one thing and ignore the rest? Or do we want the government that involved in what we do?tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Fast food and ice cream is a poor diet. Its a good idea to give it up, but it should be your choice.
Let people make their own choices, many of us can do it in moderation. I enjoy ice cream. I dont eat it every day. Doesn't mean the government should come in and take it away.Let them pay for their heart disease sickness or is it OK for the govt to pay because someone wants to smoke and get cancer or live on McDonald's and have a heart attack?The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
That’s my question, are these laws oppressive in nature? Do they encroach on civil liberties to the extent of being considered oppressive? One could make the case that they are more oppressive than other countries that allow these things, whether or not you believe they should be allowed.Hobbes said:
New Zealand has an oppressive government?PJPOWER said:
It is not unheard of for oppressive governments to limit expression and non-approved media, so I think it’s a valid argument.tempo_n_groove said:
It asks a question. It also says to me, why stop there?Hobbes said:
If you had stopped at alcohol, then I would have been more inclined to agree with you. However, you leapt right to bungee jumping. Slippery slope. Much like your original argument: guns->cigarettes->books/music. Slippery slope.tempo_n_groove said:
I asked "what next" never saying it as a fact but a question. Surely you can see the difference in the 2?Hobbes said:
Take? You stated previously that New Zealanders willingly gave up their guns.tempo_n_groove said:
I can see the banning guns, sure. I don't like it though.Hobbes said:
Multiple layers, sure. My thinking that each (alcohol, narcotics, tobacco) are substances that have lethal consequences.tempo_n_groove said:
In that they both gave way to cartels and organized crime?Hobbes said:
Actually, these examples are more related than your guns-cigarettes-books/music scenario.tempo_n_groove said:
We tried the whole prohibition thing and that seemed to work out so well that it gave birth to organized crime.mace1229 said:
I wouldn't think it leaps to books or music, but I had a similar thought. Why not alcohol, or fast food? Heart disease is the biggest killer and bad diet/fast food is a big contributor.tempo_n_groove said:
That country willfully gave up their guns so why not smoking? I'm sure other things are on the docket too.PJPOWER said:Not sure if this fits into the “Breaking News” category, but maybe;
New Zealand considers banning smoking for anyone born after 2004:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/16/new-zealand-aims-to-create-smoke-free-generation-cigarettesJust curious about what everyone thinks about this. Justified or overstepping? I think it is idiotic to smoke cigarettes, and have seen many people I’m close to suffer from the choice to do so, but evidently some people still like doing it for some reason. Any smokers around here have comments on New Zealand’s approach to this?
Anything else that causes problems? A book or certain music perhaps?
Not a fan of this...
Think of all the lives we'd save here if we banned fast food and sugar drinks.
We did the same thing with drugs/narcotics and that seemed to go swimmingly well also.
Now mind you these 3 are not the same but would they, the smokers be allowed to do ecigs/vapes? Can I not puff on a cigar anymore?
Lots of questions.
I would agree.
A better argument than banning guns leads to banning tobacco which leads to banning books/music. Slippery slope, much?
Banning cigarettes? I get it but I don't like it.
What else would they take next? It would be interesting to see what happens. Alcohol next? Bungee jumping?
Alcohol? Bungee jumping? Books? Music? Again, slippery slope fallacy.
If they banned the tobacco and went for Alcohol next It would sure be for some good convo.By definition, banning anything is oppressing liberty. A certain degree is tolerable in society, but when does it get actually labeled “oppressive”. Where is the line?
Do you think NZ is oppressive, why or why not? They are moving the needle in the direction of oppressing liberties once afforded to generations before...Post edited by PJPOWER on0 -
there would have to be a massive cultural shift for anything like that to fly in the US, and even Canada. we should be teaching kids at a very young age that McDonald's is a legal form of edible heroin.
we are brainwashed to crave that shit.
imagine if there was a drive thru "Green Leaf" or something every block. kids eating kale smoothies on the way to soccer practice.Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer0 -
Exactly, I am more for people making their own decisions than governments having to tell them what they can or cannot consume/do. But education is key in that being functional...which is where the ball is getting dropped in a major way.HughFreakingDillon said:there would have to be a massive cultural shift for anything like that to fly in the US, and even Canada. we should be teaching kids at a very young age that McDonald's is a legal form of edible heroin.
we are brainwashed to crave that shit.
imagine if there was a drive thru "Green Leaf" or something every block. kids eating kale smoothies on the way to soccer practice.
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