Police abuse
Comments
-
Now we wait for the acquittal.tbergs said:
It's not a defense in court. You're still criminally liable for the manslaughter charge, but you and others seem to be trying to sell it off as intentional murder.gimmesometruth27 said:
try using that defense in court.tbergs said:
Ever been in a situation like that? Ever been under heavy stress and have that adrenaline dump? People act all high and mighty like they'd never make a mistake. Good for all you better people arm chairing because you're perfect. People have hit the gas many times instead of the brake because they get tunnel vision and cognitive thought is non existent.gimmesometruth27 said:
when you hold a taser out in front of you and a gun out in front of you, when you aim down the sight, they both look different, right? the handles feel different in your hands, right? i mean, come on. that explanation is laughable.HughFreakingDillon said:
lol, yeah, that explanation isn't believable in the least (to me, anyway).gimmesometruth27 said:i don't know about you all, but when i eat soup i routinely accidently grab a fork instead of a spoon.
I'm sick of people making fun of it. Yeah, sure, she was supposed to be perfect because she's a cop, right? Humans fuck up, and that's what she did.
i used to work in surgery. i used to pass powered instruments to the surgeon. the drills and saws felt the same if you grabbed them by the handle. that is why when the doc asked for the reciprocating saw we made sure to look down and make sure we did not hand him the oscillating saw by mistake. it is a high pressure situation, but we double checked what we were handing him because we did not want to risk anything happening to the patient.
i have been in pressure situations like that, and i did not fuck up. so spare me that excuse. the grip on the taser is completely different than that of the gun by design. the gun is metal, the taser is a different material. if you show me someone who cannot tell the difference between the taser and the gun by tactile feel AND vision, i will show you someone who has no fucking business being a police officer.
That's good you could look down to visually verify surgical tools, completely different setting. Thankfully the patient is sedated and unable to move so they can't physically harm you while you look down to verify what you're doing. Stressful situation, but completely different.
Yes, 99.9% of the time the cop does notice or is aware, but there is a chance of failure and mistake, especially under stress and adrenaline. This is one of those times and there should be a consequence beyond loss of job. Charges should be announced today and I expect manslaughter.I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:
george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered.Lerxst1992 said:cblock4life said:Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict.I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.
the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.
If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen.
If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly.To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest
Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.0 -
I think this one will be a slam dunk conviction. What's fucked up is that this officer unintentionally killed someone due to her actions over the span of about 5 seconds and Chauvin had minutes upon minutes to change the course of that incident and did nothing, yet they will probably end up getting convicted of the same charge, 2nd degree manslaughter. That alone shows the issues with the justice system.dankind said:
Now we wait for the acquittal.tbergs said:
It's not a defense in court. You're still criminally liable for the manslaughter charge, but you and others seem to be trying to sell it off as intentional murder.gimmesometruth27 said:
try using that defense in court.tbergs said:
Ever been in a situation like that? Ever been under heavy stress and have that adrenaline dump? People act all high and mighty like they'd never make a mistake. Good for all you better people arm chairing because you're perfect. People have hit the gas many times instead of the brake because they get tunnel vision and cognitive thought is non existent.gimmesometruth27 said:
when you hold a taser out in front of you and a gun out in front of you, when you aim down the sight, they both look different, right? the handles feel different in your hands, right? i mean, come on. that explanation is laughable.HughFreakingDillon said:
lol, yeah, that explanation isn't believable in the least (to me, anyway).gimmesometruth27 said:i don't know about you all, but when i eat soup i routinely accidently grab a fork instead of a spoon.
I'm sick of people making fun of it. Yeah, sure, she was supposed to be perfect because she's a cop, right? Humans fuck up, and that's what she did.
i used to work in surgery. i used to pass powered instruments to the surgeon. the drills and saws felt the same if you grabbed them by the handle. that is why when the doc asked for the reciprocating saw we made sure to look down and make sure we did not hand him the oscillating saw by mistake. it is a high pressure situation, but we double checked what we were handing him because we did not want to risk anything happening to the patient.
i have been in pressure situations like that, and i did not fuck up. so spare me that excuse. the grip on the taser is completely different than that of the gun by design. the gun is metal, the taser is a different material. if you show me someone who cannot tell the difference between the taser and the gun by tactile feel AND vision, i will show you someone who has no fucking business being a police officer.
That's good you could look down to visually verify surgical tools, completely different setting. Thankfully the patient is sedated and unable to move so they can't physically harm you while you look down to verify what you're doing. Stressful situation, but completely different.
Yes, 99.9% of the time the cop does notice or is aware, but there is a chance of failure and mistake, especially under stress and adrenaline. This is one of those times and there should be a consequence beyond loss of job. Charges should be announced today and I expect manslaughter.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
yes, I know you were referring to Wright; I was commenting on your assertion that there is something to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority; Floyd did respect authority, and he still wound up dead.Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered.Lerxst1992 said:cblock4life said:Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict.I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.
the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.
If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen.
If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly.To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest
Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.
I 100% understand why a black person would flee or resist arrest. I think many of them think they have a better chance of survival if they take off.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I've pretended to be an expert on many things, but criminal law isnt one of the yet. So I'm not sure what the differences are, but there is probably a lesser charge of endangerment that is probably more fitting for the reasons you said.tbergs said:
I think this one will be a slam dunk conviction. What's fucked up is that this officer unintentionally killed someone due to her actions over the span of about 5 seconds and Chauvin had minutes upon minutes to change the course of that incident and did nothing, yet they will probably end up getting convicted of the same charge, 2nd degree manslaughter. That alone shows the issues with the justice system.dankind said:
Now we wait for the acquittal.tbergs said:
It's not a defense in court. You're still criminally liable for the manslaughter charge, but you and others seem to be trying to sell it off as intentional murder.gimmesometruth27 said:
try using that defense in court.tbergs said:
Ever been in a situation like that? Ever been under heavy stress and have that adrenaline dump? People act all high and mighty like they'd never make a mistake. Good for all you better people arm chairing because you're perfect. People have hit the gas many times instead of the brake because they get tunnel vision and cognitive thought is non existent.gimmesometruth27 said:
when you hold a taser out in front of you and a gun out in front of you, when you aim down the sight, they both look different, right? the handles feel different in your hands, right? i mean, come on. that explanation is laughable.HughFreakingDillon said:
lol, yeah, that explanation isn't believable in the least (to me, anyway).gimmesometruth27 said:i don't know about you all, but when i eat soup i routinely accidently grab a fork instead of a spoon.
I'm sick of people making fun of it. Yeah, sure, she was supposed to be perfect because she's a cop, right? Humans fuck up, and that's what she did.
i used to work in surgery. i used to pass powered instruments to the surgeon. the drills and saws felt the same if you grabbed them by the handle. that is why when the doc asked for the reciprocating saw we made sure to look down and make sure we did not hand him the oscillating saw by mistake. it is a high pressure situation, but we double checked what we were handing him because we did not want to risk anything happening to the patient.
i have been in pressure situations like that, and i did not fuck up. so spare me that excuse. the grip on the taser is completely different than that of the gun by design. the gun is metal, the taser is a different material. if you show me someone who cannot tell the difference between the taser and the gun by tactile feel AND vision, i will show you someone who has no fucking business being a police officer.
That's good you could look down to visually verify surgical tools, completely different setting. Thankfully the patient is sedated and unable to move so they can't physically harm you while you look down to verify what you're doing. Stressful situation, but completely different.
Yes, 99.9% of the time the cop does notice or is aware, but there is a chance of failure and mistake, especially under stress and adrenaline. This is one of those times and there should be a consequence beyond loss of job. Charges should be announced today and I expect manslaughter.
0 -
a slam dunk conviction? a white officer killing a black man resisting arrest is NEVER a slam dunk conviction. I sure hope you're right, but I'm not holding my breath.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
-
This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered.Lerxst1992 said:cblock4life said:Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict.I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.
the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.
If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen.
If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly.To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest
Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.
This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.
If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.
Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.
Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!
I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
Good point but Chauvin was at least charged with higher graded crimes, and can still be convicted on them (unlikely, but still). But I get what you’re getting at. The most likely outcome for both is 2nd degree manslaughter...yet Chauvin was more callous, and his negligence was more deliberate (if that makes sense). Potter’s negligence was more stupidity-based, but the result was the same: the arrestee died.tbergs said:
I think this one will be a slam dunk conviction. What's fucked up is that this officer unintentionally killed someone due to her actions over the span of about 5 seconds and Chauvin had minutes upon minutes to change the course of that incident and did nothing, yet they will probably end up getting convicted of the same charge, 2nd degree manslaughter. That alone shows the issues with the justice system.dankind said:
Now we wait for the acquittal.tbergs said:
It's not a defense in court. You're still criminally liable for the manslaughter charge, but you and others seem to be trying to sell it off as intentional murder.gimmesometruth27 said:
try using that defense in court.tbergs said:
Ever been in a situation like that? Ever been under heavy stress and have that adrenaline dump? People act all high and mighty like they'd never make a mistake. Good for all you better people arm chairing because you're perfect. People have hit the gas many times instead of the brake because they get tunnel vision and cognitive thought is non existent.gimmesometruth27 said:
when you hold a taser out in front of you and a gun out in front of you, when you aim down the sight, they both look different, right? the handles feel different in your hands, right? i mean, come on. that explanation is laughable.HughFreakingDillon said:
lol, yeah, that explanation isn't believable in the least (to me, anyway).gimmesometruth27 said:i don't know about you all, but when i eat soup i routinely accidently grab a fork instead of a spoon.
I'm sick of people making fun of it. Yeah, sure, she was supposed to be perfect because she's a cop, right? Humans fuck up, and that's what she did.
i used to work in surgery. i used to pass powered instruments to the surgeon. the drills and saws felt the same if you grabbed them by the handle. that is why when the doc asked for the reciprocating saw we made sure to look down and make sure we did not hand him the oscillating saw by mistake. it is a high pressure situation, but we double checked what we were handing him because we did not want to risk anything happening to the patient.
i have been in pressure situations like that, and i did not fuck up. so spare me that excuse. the grip on the taser is completely different than that of the gun by design. the gun is metal, the taser is a different material. if you show me someone who cannot tell the difference between the taser and the gun by tactile feel AND vision, i will show you someone who has no fucking business being a police officer.
That's good you could look down to visually verify surgical tools, completely different setting. Thankfully the patient is sedated and unable to move so they can't physically harm you while you look down to verify what you're doing. Stressful situation, but completely different.
Yes, 99.9% of the time the cop does notice or is aware, but there is a chance of failure and mistake, especially under stress and adrenaline. This is one of those times and there should be a consequence beyond loss of job. Charges should be announced today and I expect manslaughter.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com0 -
Freddie Gray complied.
Why is it that we have armed police officers patrolling middle schools and body slamming students? What other country has armed police in their middle and high schools? The inability of some to see the bigger picture is astounding to me. Two charges that I'm aware of, one illegal possession of a firearm and the other a no show court appearance equals a rap sheet worthy of being a menace to society? As a young black man, you know of all these instances where people like you are killed by the cops and yet, you also see a white kid with a long gun shoot multiple people, try to surrender to the police and be allowed to walk away. This shit isn't happening in a vacuum and it wouldn't surprise me if the conversation in the cop bar after work is "just claim you mistook your gun for your taser." Because we all know cops never conspire, plant evidence or cover up.
Has any kind of weapon been found in the car or on the person of Daunte Wright? So, why was he shot, again?
Just comply, you'll be fine. Yea, sure.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:a slam dunk conviction? a white officer killing a black man resisting arrest is NEVER a slam dunk conviction. I sure hope you're right, but I'm not holding my breath.True. But I wonder whether the Police Department's statement about what happened can lead to her being convicted.The most likely outcome between her and Chauvin is she'll do time and Chauvin won't. That certainly would not be consistent with intent and which one I'd be more concerned with being on the street.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
"Black drivers are 20% more likely to be pulled over than white drivers." Why is that?
What Black drivers are doing to protect themselves during traffic stops - CNN
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
I don't think 12yo Tamir Rice had a chance to comply.0
-
dankind said:
This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered.Lerxst1992 said:cblock4life said:Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict.I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.
the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.
If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen.
If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly.To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest
Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.
This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.
If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.
Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.
Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!
This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.
This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.
This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.
Truth0 -
What do you mean by that in this case? Leading up to the shooting, what did the cops do wrong in this case? Are the police not supposed to arrest someone with an active warrant? Are they supposed to just let him flee without attempting to restrain him?dankind said:
This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered.Lerxst1992 said:cblock4life said:Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict.I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.
the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.
If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen.
If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly.To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest
Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.
This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.
If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.
Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.
Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!
No one is asking him to meet them half way, but the police need to do their jobs. And that includes arresting people with a warrant. I mean, we had a lot of talk recently about being more aggressive with gun laws. Are those gun laws only supposed ot apply to white people? Of course not. So I just don't understand what you meant by the victims are not supposed to meet their abusers half way. Up until the moment she pulled the trigger, what did they do wrong? I see nothing. Had it actually been a taser and not a gun, I'd say the police did everything right. SO what does not meeting them halfway look like, not allowing himself to be arrested?
Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
Couple of reading recommendations:
The End of Policing by Alex Vitale
- Lots of great proposals/ideas. I agreed with most of the points the author makes, some not so much. Worth reading.
As for how the office could have mistaken a taser for a sidearm, and how stress/adrenaline/situational events can lead to what happened Sunday afternoon:
On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society by Dave Grossman
0 -
You see nothing wrong with how three armed cops handled that situation? Wow. Tell me, why was Daunte Wright shot?mace1229 said:
What do you mean by that in this case? Leading up to the shooting, what did the cops do wrong in this case? Are the police not supposed to arrest someone with an active warrant? Are they supposed to just let him flee without attempting to restrain him?dankind said:
This is your third white supremacist post blowing the exact same dogwhistle.Lerxst1992 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
george floyd did none of those things. he complied and he was murdered.Lerxst1992 said:cblock4life said:Can we all agree it’s time for cops to be cops instead of the cop, judge, jury, and executioner? Yes the victim was wrong, but that in no way entitles an officer to convict.I don’t think anyone on the forum is saying the officer is trying to be an executioner. The officer made a brutally poor mistake, lost her career and possibly will serve a few years for manslaughter. If you don’t hear that in her voice on the video, we'll need to agree to disagree.
the victim made a conscious decision to flea arrest, to drive without plates, to ignore a court appointment and an appearance in front of a judge, carry a gun illegally and run from the police. All of these were conscious decisions by the victim at different points in time. Did he deserve to die? of course not, this is a tragedy. But he made six conscious decisions, each of which put his life in more danger.
If democrats and the black community pretend in this case there is nothing to be learned about living within the law and respecting authority, this will turn into a gift to trump and his comrades, just like defund the police was. It is time for all of us to acknowledge when we take risky behavior involving the police, bad accidents can happen.
If I was a black person, I'd be terrified every single time I saw a siren. seriously. do I think they are being hunted? no, but I do believe that police (and the general public) have pre-conceived notions of how a person of a certain skin colour is going to act/react, how much danger they are going to be, etc, and act/react accordingly.To be clear, I was commenting on Wright, not Floyd. In this case, they didn’t have preconceived notions, they had knowledge of multiple violations of law and a physical altercation initiated by the suspect.The taser was a terrible accident, the cop did not look down and had every reason to believe the criminal could have a gun in his car and had a split second to react. A horrible accident, but one the victim clearly placed himself in harms way by becoming physical in his attempt to flee arrest
Certain times call for accountability. Potter may serve four years for this horrible accident. If the black community chooses to ignore the rap sheet a young 20 year old was building in short order, they are not going to find the solutions they are hoping for.
This should be obvious, but it is not on victims to meet their abusers halfway.
If more than half the country thinks as this post lays out, then it deserves another fucking DJT and whatever may come of it.
Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that in the US's short, violent history, instances in which minority victims attempted to meet their white abusers halfway have almost never worked out for the minority community in the long run. The white abusers quickly retool their olive branches into switches.
Also, the rap sheet I saw contained two misdemeanors on it. I had plenty more on mine before my 21st birthday, and I continued to resist arrest, flee, etc., whenever confronted by LEOs. I just can't believe my luck!
No one is asking him to meet them half way, but the police need to do their jobs. And that includes arresting people with a warrant. I mean, we had a lot of talk recently about being more aggressive with gun laws. Are those gun laws only supposed ot apply to white people? Of course not. So I just don't understand what you meant by the victims are not supposed to meet their abusers half way. Up until the moment she pulled the trigger, what did they do wrong? I see nothing. Had it actually been a taser and not a gun, I'd say the police did everything right. SO what does not meeting them halfway look like, not allowing himself to be arrested?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Maybe someone can explain to me why a "compliant" black man was maced. And some here don't think its open season. Just comply.
Caron Nazario saw Eric Garner, his ‘uncle,’ die in police hands. Then officers assaulted him six years later.
For a moment, as the video played on his cellphone, Charles Welch thought he was about to watch a White police officer kill one of his family members for the second time.
On the screen, he saw his wife’s cousin, Caron Nazario, a 27-year-old Army second lieutenant who, while still in uniform, had been pulled over by a pair of officers in Windsor, Va. Both men had drawn their weapons, and now both were screaming at Nazario, who struggled to understand what they wanted from him.
“What’s going on?” he asked, in a video from the December traffic stop that has since exploded across the Internet.
“What’s going on is you’re fixing to ride the lightning, son,” Officer Joe Gutierrez shouted back, using a slang term that can refer to execution.
Welch, 52, couldn’t process what he was seeing on his phone. He had helped raise Nazario and considered him to be his nephew. Welch held his breath as tears streaked his cheeks.
He had seen a version of this video before.
His wife, Raquel, was also a cousin to Eric Garner, the Black man who died on a Staten Island sidewalk in 2014 after an officer wrapped him in a chokehold. The national outrage, demands for change and immortalization of his last words — “I can’t breathe” — did little to quell the anguish his family suffered. Among them was a young man, Caron Nazario, who called Garner his uncle.
Raquel contacted him soon after Garner’s death. Amid her grief, she needed to remind him of a message he’d heard many times before: If a police officer ever confronted him, he had to stay calm, comply, never make them feel threatened.
Six years later, on a cool winter evening, he was driving home from military training when police lights flashed behind him. His Chevrolet Tahoe was so new that he still hadn’t received permanent plates, but the temporary ones taped to the inside were visible through the back window.
Nazario, who is Black and Latino, didn’t want to pull over in the dark, so he continued on for a brief stretch until he reached a well-lit BP gas station. It was there that Gutierrez and another officer, Daniel Crocker, drew their handguns and demanded that Nazario step outside.
Despite Nazario’s composure — quietly asking for an explanation, pleading with the officers to relax, holding his hands up through the window — Gutierrez pepper-sprayed him in the face before pulling him out and striking him repeatedly with his knee.
“I’m actively serving this country and this is how you’re going to treat me?” Nazario said, never once raising his voice.
Nazario, who was released without charges, filed a lawsuit this month that claims Gutierrez and Crocker violated his constitutional rights, specifically the Fourth Amendment. The lawsuit says police also threatened to end Nazario’s military career if he spoke out about the incident. He’s seeking at least $1 million in damages.
The litigation has focused even more of the nation’s attention on how police treat Black men at a moment when Derek Chauvin, a former Minneapolis officer, is facing trial for the death of George Floyd. Not far from the courthouse, another unarmed Black man, Daunte Wright, was killed by a police officer on Sunday in a Minneapolis suburb.
What many people have found most remarkable about Nazario’s experience isn’t the alleged mistreatment — the same sort they’ve seen time after time — but, instead, the way he responded to it.
“That demeanor is who he is all the time,” Raquel said. “That’s just who he is.”
Her husband recalled episodes during Nazario’s childhood when he’d remain so stoic during a scolding that it would frustrate his mother.
“Ma,” he’d tell her, “calm down.”
Garner’s mom, Gwen Carr, recognized that same poise in him as a child growing up around the corner from her home in Brooklyn — and, she thinks, it kept him alive.
“I really thank God that it ended up the way it did because if he had stopped in that dark place, I’m sure they would have taken his life,” Carr said. “I’m so glad he drove and he got to that gas station.”
Carr recalled Nazario’s early years fondly. He was, she said, a smart student and a talented athlete, later playing baseball — he was a pitcher — and running track at George Westinghouse High School.
“He was respectful, responsible. A good kid,” Carr said. “Everyone liked him.”
Nazario, one of four siblings raised by a single mom, had wanted to join the military since childhood. He was enthralled by the stories that Raquel’s father, a decorated Vietnam veteran, told about the war, and he’d always liked to help people.
Growing up, Nazario, who got As and Bs, received several awards for community service, including special citations from the city council and Brooklyn borough officials. In high school, he volunteered to serve as a map technician at local government meetings.
In 2011, he enrolled at Virginia State University, drawn to its status as a historically Black college. Two years later, Nazario left to enlist in the Army as a combat medic. He then returned to VSU and was accepted into the ROTC program, earning the chance to become an officer.
It was an intense environment, said Alexis Simmons, who served in the same ROTC program, but Nazario was always the “de-escalator.”
“If somebody was arguing, he’d be the one to talk everybody down,” she said, also recalling his keen sense of empathy. One day, she was struggling with a personal issue, but doing her best to hide it. He still noticed. Nazario pulled her aside and told her he was there for her if she needed anything.
Deon Tillman, a classmate and campus photographer, posted images this week on Facebook of Nazario at his graduation, dressed in full uniform. For as long as he has known Nazario, Tillman wrote, “he has been chill, cool, calm and collected.”
He hopes that those photos, and not the ones of Nazario handcuffed on the pavement, will be the lasting images people have of him.
Nazario was commissioned in the Virginia National Guard in December 2016 and works as an Army Health Services Administration officer. He served on active duty last year as part of the Guard’s coronavirus response, a spokesman said. After the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection, his attorney said, he also was activated to serve in the District, working on the medical staff at the central command center.
In February, Nazario returned home to New York after Raquel’s father died. At the funeral, he mentioned that he’d been pulled over by police, but, with typical understatement, shared few details. Most of his family had no idea what he’d endured until the video spread this weekend.
Raquel and her husband began checking on him nearly every day.
“He’s not doing okay,” Raquel said of Nazario, who still endures nightmares about that night. “As calm as he was, I think anybody who went through that would be dealing with trauma.”
In a call, the couple learned something else about him, too: The Army might deploy him to Afghanistan later this year.
They were stunned. He’d just survived what was, in their view, a near-death experience, and now he could be sent to a combat zone? Was he well enough to do that? Couldn’t he get out of it somehow?
“If they ask me to go,” Nazario told them, “I’m going to go.”
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Imagine if conservative white Americans got half as mad about what happened to Ahmoud Arbery or Caron Nazario as they did when a couple of black NFL players knelt during the anthem?
Yeah, I can't imagine it either.0 -
That incident, this current incident and the Floyd incident all had very different circumstances ending in the same result, death by cop, but that doesn't mean they all should be treated the same way. An officer intentionally shooting someone, unintentionally shooting someone and using excessive force all require law enforcement to be held accountable for these failures and make changes to how they respond to calls. That may be anything from scenario based training on de-escalation, duty to act when using any type of force, after action review by civilian or designated unbiased board, increased firearms proficiency and simulation scenario training. Sometimes the incident has nothing to do with race and is more to do with incompetence and negligence and other times it's clear that race was the factor. Many of these cops were assholes no matter who they dealt with and additionally some were racist assholes.Merkin Baller said:I don't think 12yo Tamir Rice had a chance to comply.
It has been ingrained for years that an officer's life is on the line every shift they work and that isn't true. While officers needs to be cognizant of the potential for violence and weapons involved incidents, that is not the majority of their work. I think I read a stat that none of the officers who work for Brooklyn Center actually even live in the city. That's an amazingly sad statistic, but I don't think it's uncommon. If people knew the officers and the officers knew their community outside their shift, it would change how these interactions unfold. Community policing has been a cliche for decades, but the merits of an effective program far outweigh any of the cons. Make these cops be a part of the community they serve beyond the siloed negative interactions they experience from a limited part of the population every day they come to work.
Post edited by tbergs onIt's a hopeless situation...0 -
How many times during a surgery have you been presented with a fight or flight response? A pressure situation and one where a physiological response is triggered really should not be compared. I do not think the officer intended to use deadly force, but rather reacted to a split second response out of their control and will pay the price, much like the victim. If we are willing to question the officers actions we also have to question the actions of the victim. Both made mistakes and the outcome was very unfortunate. Not a single human is infallible and I think that is important to remember. This particular case does not appear to be racially motivated IMO.gimmesometruth27 said:
try using that defense in court.tbergs said:
Ever been in a situation like that? Ever been under heavy stress and have that adrenaline dump? People act all high and mighty like they'd never make a mistake. Good for all you better people arm chairing because you're perfect. People have hit the gas many times instead of the brake because they get tunnel vision and cognitive thought is non existent.gimmesometruth27 said:
when you hold a taser out in front of you and a gun out in front of you, when you aim down the sight, they both look different, right? the handles feel different in your hands, right? i mean, come on. that explanation is laughable.HughFreakingDillon said:
lol, yeah, that explanation isn't believable in the least (to me, anyway).gimmesometruth27 said:i don't know about you all, but when i eat soup i routinely accidently grab a fork instead of a spoon.
I'm sick of people making fun of it. Yeah, sure, she was supposed to be perfect because she's a cop, right? Humans fuck up, and that's what she did.
i used to work in surgery. i used to pass powered instruments to the surgeon. the drills and saws felt the same if you grabbed them by the handle. that is why when the doc asked for the reciprocating saw we made sure to look down and make sure we did not hand him the oscillating saw by mistake. it is a high pressure situation, but we double checked what we were handing him because we did not want to risk anything happening to the patient.
i have been in pressure situations like that, and i did not fuck up. so spare me that excuse. the grip on the taser is completely different than that of the gun by design. the gun is metal, the taser is a different material. if you show me someone who cannot tell the difference between the taser and the gun by tactile feel AND vision, i will show you someone who has no fucking business being a police officer.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.8K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.1K Flea Market
- 39.1K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.7K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help