#46 President Joe Biden

brianlux · February 2021

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule. My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

I'm a fan of indexed Min Wage. Maybe something like 4 or 5 tiers based on the cost of living in an area. You can't really do it at the state level because rural to urban is so different. But it's a hard thing to do, it's hard to build and hard to manage. I know there is a counter from Manchin out there for $11. That's better than we have today and maybe not as disruptive as a huge jump to $15.

I agree, setting this up would be difficult. But I think it could be done and I think it could be done even down to the county level. The cost of living in San Francisco County California is WAY different than the cost of living in Alpine County, California.

How could it be done? By giving the assignment to state workers who spend half their working hours on the internet posting on FaceBook or music forums, etc. I personally know people who are or have worked for the state who do that. The work force to make this happen is there and added costs would be very little to next to none.

mace1229 · February 2021

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule. My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

I'm a fan of indexed Min Wage. Maybe something like 4 or 5 tiers based on the cost of living in an area. You can't really do it at the state level because rural to urban is so different. But it's a hard thing to do, it's hard to build and hard to manage. I know there is a counter from Manchin out there for $11. That's better than we have today and maybe not as disruptive as a huge jump to $15.

I would be if it was more complex to include age or something else too. I'm not for a national "liveable wage" even if it is tiered. And nearly the entire argument against it is not everyone needs a liveable wage. But I never see that addressed. I have 8th graders asking me for work permits, do they need a salary or hourly wage that is enough to support a family? There is nothing wrong with paying a 14 year old with a 7th or 8th grade education, who is at their first job with little to no experience, half of what would be considered a liveable wage for an adult. To increase the minimum wage they should expand the student learner wage program that increase those exempt from a minimum wage.

mrussel1 · February 2021

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule. My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

I'm a fan of indexed Min Wage. Maybe something like 4 or 5 tiers based on the cost of living in an area. You can't really do it at the state level because rural to urban is so different. But it's a hard thing to do, it's hard to build and hard to manage. I know there is a counter from Manchin out there for $11. That's better than we have today and maybe not as disruptive as a huge jump to $15.

I would be if it was more complex to include age or something else too. I'm not for a national "liveable wage" even if it is tiered. And nearly the entire argument against it is not everyone needs a liveable wage. But I never see that addressed. I have 8th graders asking me for work permits, do they need a salary or hourly wage that is enough to support a family? There is nothing wrong with paying a 14 year old with a 7th or 8th grade education, who is at their first job with little to no experience, half of what would be considered a liveable wage for an adult. To increase the minimum wage they should expand the student learner wage program that increase those exempt from a minimum wage.

There will be unintended consequences of that. For example, if you say min wage for under 18 is $10, employers will go heavy on hiring $10 workers. That could be counterproductive and produce higher unemployment for those that actually need the job, rather than working for spending cash.

mrussel1 · February 2021

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule. My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

I'm a fan of indexed Min Wage. Maybe something like 4 or 5 tiers based on the cost of living in an area. You can't really do it at the state level because rural to urban is so different. But it's a hard thing to do, it's hard to build and hard to manage. I know there is a counter from Manchin out there for $11. That's better than we have today and maybe not as disruptive as a huge jump to $15.

I agree, setting this up would be difficult. But I think it could be done and I think it could be done even down to the county level. The cost of living in San Francisco County California is WAY different than the cost of living in Alpine County, California.

How could it be done? By giving the assignment to state workers who spend half their working hours on the internet posting on FaceBook or music forums, etc. I personally know people who are or have worked for the state who do that. The work force to make this happen is there and added costs would be very little to next to none.

Haha Brian.. you're getting crotchety!

static111 · February 2021

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule. My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule. My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

I'm a fan of indexed Min Wage. Maybe something like 4 or 5 tiers based on the cost of living in an area. You can't really do it at the state level because rural to urban is so different. But it's a hard thing to do, it's hard to build and hard to manage. I know there is a counter from Manchin out there for $11. That's better than we have today and maybe not as disruptive as a huge jump to $15.

I would be if it was more complex to include age or something else too. I'm not for a national "liveable wage" even if it is tiered. And nearly the entire argument against it is not everyone needs a liveable wage. But I never see that addressed. I have 8th graders asking me for work permits, do they need a salary or hourly wage that is enough to support a family? There is nothing wrong with paying a 14 year old with a 7th or 8th grade education, who is at their first job with little to no experience, half of what would be considered a liveable wage for an adult. To increase the minimum wage they should expand the student learner wage program that increase those exempt from a minimum wage.

Dear god this would be abused so bad. No one would have jobs but seniors and students of a certain age that “don’t need” a livable wage. Not to mention how stupid it would be if two people are doing the same job, cashier, line cook etc and one guy is 32 and makes 15 but the other guy is 65 or 18 and only makes 10 or whatever someone else decides is enough. Holy moly that’s why we created minimum wage laws and unions in the first place, to not abuse the labor force...

The Juggler · February 2021

If Manchin won't go for $!5 but is on board for $11, why the hell won't they just agree on $12ish? It's not gonna be $15 if he's not going along with it. It looks like $15 will result in 1 million job losses (though, they'll most likely be high school kids apparently). I would think $11 or $12 is a pretty good start. It's a hell of a lot better than 7 bucks.

mickeyrat · February 2021

what seems lost in thd discussion is 15 isnt automatic. it steps up over time to eventually reach 15

mrussel1 · February 2021

The Juggler said:

If Manchin won't go for $!5 but is on board for $11, why the hell won't they just agree on $12ish? It's not gonna be $15 if he's not going along with it. It looks like $15 will result in 1 million job losses (though, they'll most likely be high school kids apparently). I would think $11 or $12 is a pretty good start. It's a hell of a lot better than 7 bucks.

Mick is right. Also, it's kind of moot at this point. It's not going through reconciliation so it will need 60 votes.

The Juggler · February 2021

I know it is a few steps to get there, I am just looking at what the CBO says. I just don't see why they can't meet in the middle.

oftenreading · February 2021

static111 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule.   My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

CBO releases analysis on $15 min wage by 2025. It's a mixed bag. Helps some but net job loss.

Increasing the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025, from the current $7.25 an hour level, as President Biden has called for, would cut employment by 1.4 million and reduce the number of Americans below the poverty line by 900,000, according to a study released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office on Monday.
The cumulative federal budget deficit from 2021 to 2031 would increase by $54 billion if a $15 federal minimum was enacted because higher prices for goods and services would contribute to an increase in federal spending, the report found. Government spending on nutrition supplements would fall, but that would be offset by increased spending on Social Security benefits, unemployment benefits and health-care programs, the CBO said.
The report found enrollment in Medicaid, health care for low-income Americans, would fall because many workers would earn more, but program costs would increase to higher prices for medical services.
Economic output would be reduced slightly, primary because of decreased employment, CBO said.

I have yet to hear anyone beside myself suggest a more flexible wage schedule.   My plan would be to increase minimum wage to a living wage for full-time workers and base that wage on cost of living according to where one lives (cost of living varies a great deal in varying parts of the country). I would also give exceptions to minimum wage for students or elderly wanting a part-time job to make a little extra money or have something to do. Why should a small business owner pay minimum wages to a senior who wants a part time job to supplement his or her retirement or social security or just to have something to give him or herself a sense of purpose? Or to a student who just wants some work experience and some money to buy records and lattes? I mean, seriously, it's very hard to keep a small business running as it it without having to deal with increased payroll given to people working who do not need a living wage.

Why is this issue being looked at in black and white? Why is there so little common sense being applied to this issue? No wonder people get frustrated with government.

I'm a fan of indexed Min Wage. Maybe something like 4 or 5 tiers based on the cost of living in an area. You can't really do it at the state level because rural to urban is so different. But it's a hard thing to do, it's hard to build and hard to manage. I know there is a counter from Manchin out there for $11. That's better than we have today and maybe not as disruptive as a huge jump to $15.

I would be if it was more complex to include age or something else too. I'm not for a national "liveable wage" even if it is tiered. And nearly the entire argument against it is not everyone needs a liveable wage. But I never see that addressed. I have 8th graders asking me for work permits, do they need a salary or hourly wage that is enough to support a family? There is nothing wrong with paying a 14 year old with a 7th or 8th grade education, who is at their first job with little to no experience, half of what would be considered a liveable wage for an adult. To increase the minimum wage they should expand the student learner wage program that increase those exempt from a minimum wage.

Dear god this would be abused so bad. No one would have jobs but seniors and students of a certain age that “don’t need” a livable wage. Not to mention how stupid it would be if two people are doing the same job, cashier, line cook etc and one guy is 32 and makes 15 but the other guy is 65 or 18 and only makes 10 or whatever someone else decides is enough. Holy moly that’s why we created minimum wage laws and unions in the first place, to not abuse the labor force...

Equal pay for equal work.

Those looking in from the outside have zero clue what workers are doing with their money.

I have known teenagers in high school who were supporting a family of 6, including both parents.

oftenreading · February 2021

I also keep reading about the wave of seniors who can’t afford to retire and are still working into their 70s and beyond. I’m sure it won’t make it any easier on them to have their wages cut.

static111 · February 2021

oftenreading said:

I also keep reading about the wave of seniors who can’t afford to retire and are still working into their 70s and beyond. I’m sure it won’t make it any easier on them to have their wages cut.

Right, I will probably be working past “retirement” whatever that is. I hope some pencil pusher doesn’t decide to cut my pay because at a certain age I don’t need money anymore 🙄. I think a lot of people need to go work some minimum wage jobs and then get paid even less because they don’t deserve the full minimum, pretty sure some opinions would change real quick.

brianlux · February 2021

static111 said:

oftenreading said:

I also keep reading about the wave of seniors who can’t afford to retire and are still working into their 70s and beyond. I’m sure it won’t make it any easier on them to have their wages cut.

Right, I will probably be working past “retirement” whatever that is. I hope some pencil pusher doesn’t decide to cut my pay because at a certain age I don’t need money anymore 🙄. I think a lot of people need to go work some minimum wage jobs and then get paid even less because they don’t deserve the full minimum, pretty sure some opinions would change real quick.

You all are missing my point. Please, don't just skim over what I said.

And hey, look, I'm 69 going on 70. Since pandemic, I've only been working a few hours here and there at $15 and hour (like very few hours) in a high cost of living state plus what I make selling books and records through my own business (not a lot of money). But a) I'm not complaining and b) don't get the idea I don't care and c) I wish I had the time and energy to help people learn to manage their money better. My wife and I live comfortably on a significantly below average income. It can be done if you're use some common sense and learn how to manage one's money.

static111 · February 2021

brianlux said:

static111 said:

oftenreading said:

I also keep reading about the wave of seniors who can’t afford to retire and are still working into their 70s and beyond. I’m sure it won’t make it any easier on them to have their wages cut.

Right, I will probably be working past “retirement” whatever that is. I hope some pencil pusher doesn’t decide to cut my pay because at a certain age I don’t need money anymore 🙄. I think a lot of people need to go work some minimum wage jobs and then get paid even less because they don’t deserve the full minimum, pretty sure some opinions would change real quick.

You all are missing my point. Please, don't just skim over what I said.
And hey, look, I'm 69 going on 70. Since pandemic, I've only been working a few hours here and there at $15 and hour (like very few hours) in a high cost of living state plus what I make selling books and records through my own business (not a lot of money). But a) I'm not complaining and b) don't get the idea I don't care and c) I wish I had the time and energy to help people learn to manage their money better. My wife and I live comfortably on a significantly below average income. It can be done if you're use some common sense and learn how to manage one's money.

Yes I agree that people definitely need to learn money management skills. I also believe that life shouldn’t be a contest of how frugal one can be until the end of their days and that people doing the same job should have relatively equal pay. I understand what you are saying, but I’ve never thought that someone doesn’t deserve as much as another person doing the same job simply because they are a High School student and don’t “need” the money. Same with being retired or semi retired or whatever, if you are doing the same job you absolutely do deserve the same pay. There are just way too many individual extenuating circumstances to put a plan like that into effect and have it be fair. That is kind of why I am for universal programs.

brianlux · February 2021

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

oftenreading said:

I also keep reading about the wave of seniors who can’t afford to retire and are still working into their 70s and beyond. I’m sure it won’t make it any easier on them to have their wages cut.

Right, I will probably be working past “retirement” whatever that is. I hope some pencil pusher doesn’t decide to cut my pay because at a certain age I don’t need money anymore 🙄. I think a lot of people need to go work some minimum wage jobs and then get paid even less because they don’t deserve the full minimum, pretty sure some opinions would change real quick.

You all are missing my point. Please, don't just skim over what I said.
And hey, look, I'm 69 going on 70. Since pandemic, I've only been working a few hours here and there at $15 and hour (like very few hours) in a high cost of living state plus what I make selling books and records through my own business (not a lot of money). But a) I'm not complaining and b) don't get the idea I don't care and c) I wish I had the time and energy to help people learn to manage their money better. My wife and I live comfortably on a significantly below average income. It can be done if you're use some common sense and learn how to manage one's money.

Yes I agree that people definitely need to learn money management skills. I also believe that life shouldn’t be a contest of how frugal one can be until the end of their days and that people doing the same job should have relatively equal pay. I understand what you are saying, but I’ve never thought that someone doesn’t deserve as much as another person doing the same job simply because they are a High School student and don’t “need” the money. Same with being retired or semi retired or whatever, if you are doing the same job you absolutely do deserve the same pay. There are just way too many individual extenuating circumstances to put a plan like that into effect and have it be fair. That is kind of why I am for universal programs.

If it sounds like I'm in a competition to be more frugal, I'm only competing with myself. And, believe me, I do take frugality time outs. Why, just last night I ordered Henry Rollin's latest book. That was WAY more than I normally pay for a book. But, damn, it's Henry, ya know?!

As for equal pay for equal work, yes. I mostly agree. But if you have a person needing full-time work to keep going vs an elderly person wanting to just keep busy and be useful or a student wants some part-time work for lattes and buying entertainment, you have to add into the equation "equal work for differing circumstances". Why should a person working full-time trying to keep a family going get paid the same as the student or elderly person just wanting something to do and a little money? Big difference. You guys aren't looking at the whole picture. It's not all black and white.

I stand by my belief that locale and situation should be taken into account regarding minimum wage. Yes, that means I support differing wages for differing situations. That does not mean I am heartless.

static111 · February 2021

brianlux said:

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

oftenreading said:

I also keep reading about the wave of seniors who can’t afford to retire and are still working into their 70s and beyond. I’m sure it won’t make it any easier on them to have their wages cut.

Right, I will probably be working past “retirement” whatever that is. I hope some pencil pusher doesn’t decide to cut my pay because at a certain age I don’t need money anymore 🙄. I think a lot of people need to go work some minimum wage jobs and then get paid even less because they don’t deserve the full minimum, pretty sure some opinions would change real quick.

You all are missing my point. Please, don't just skim over what I said.
And hey, look, I'm 69 going on 70. Since pandemic, I've only been working a few hours here and there at $15 and hour (like very few hours) in a high cost of living state plus what I make selling books and records through my own business (not a lot of money). But a) I'm not complaining and b) don't get the idea I don't care and c) I wish I had the time and energy to help people learn to manage their money better. My wife and I live comfortably on a significantly below average income. It can be done if you're use some common sense and learn how to manage one's money.

Yes I agree that people definitely need to learn money management skills. I also believe that life shouldn’t be a contest of how frugal one can be until the end of their days and that people doing the same job should have relatively equal pay. I understand what you are saying, but I’ve never thought that someone doesn’t deserve as much as another person doing the same job simply because they are a High School student and don’t “need” the money. Same with being retired or semi retired or whatever, if you are doing the same job you absolutely do deserve the same pay. There are just way too many individual extenuating circumstances to put a plan like that into effect and have it be fair. That is kind of why I am for universal programs.

If it sounds like I'm in a competition to be more frugal, I'm only competing with myself. And, believe me, I do take frugality time outs. Why, just last night I ordered Henry Rollin's latest book. That was WAY more than I normally pay for a book. But, damn, it's Henry, ya know?!

As for equal pay for equal work, yes. I mostly agree. But if you have a person needing full-time work to keep going vs an elderly person wanting to just keep busy and be useful or a student wants some part-time work for lattes and buying entertainment, you have to add into the equation "equal work for differing circumstances". Why should a person working full-time trying to keep a family going get paid the same as the student or elderly person just wanting something to do and a little money? Big difference. You guys aren't looking at the whole picture. It's not all black and white.

I stand by my belief that locale and situation should be taken into account regarding minimum wage. Yes, that means I support differing wages for differing situations. That does not mean I am heartless.

I’m for minimum wage tied to cost of living in an area. But I don’t think I can ever get on board with differing pay for the same work. Too many chances to get abused. Who is to say who deserves full pay etc. Now that I think about it more thing minimum wage to locality could be abused as well, moving your business to a town with a lower min, etc. Anyways contrary to popular belief the minimum wage was never meant to be for “starter” jobs it was meant so people didn’t have to kill themselves working. There are just too many circumstances out there that would be abused and I think that’s why it needs to be a minimum. Imagine a 16 year old gets a part time job at a factory working as hard or harder than the next guy that’s 40 doing the same job. I agree with you in a lot of your posts in the AMT, but I will always be equal work for equal pay mindset. The good thing though that I can agree with you on is that something definitely needs to change with how things are, and I can tell that you want a world that is better for all people!

oh and congrats on the book splurge!

brianlux · February 2021

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

oftenreading said:

I also keep reading about the wave of seniors who can’t afford to retire and are still working into their 70s and beyond. I’m sure it won’t make it any easier on them to have their wages cut.

Right, I will probably be working past “retirement” whatever that is. I hope some pencil pusher doesn’t decide to cut my pay because at a certain age I don’t need money anymore 🙄. I think a lot of people need to go work some minimum wage jobs and then get paid even less because they don’t deserve the full minimum, pretty sure some opinions would change real quick.

You all are missing my point. Please, don't just skim over what I said.
And hey, look, I'm 69 going on 70. Since pandemic, I've only been working a few hours here and there at $15 and hour (like very few hours) in a high cost of living state plus what I make selling books and records through my own business (not a lot of money). But a) I'm not complaining and b) don't get the idea I don't care and c) I wish I had the time and energy to help people learn to manage their money better. My wife and I live comfortably on a significantly below average income. It can be done if you're use some common sense and learn how to manage one's money.

Yes I agree that people definitely need to learn money management skills. I also believe that life shouldn’t be a contest of how frugal one can be until the end of their days and that people doing the same job should have relatively equal pay. I understand what you are saying, but I’ve never thought that someone doesn’t deserve as much as another person doing the same job simply because they are a High School student and don’t “need” the money. Same with being retired or semi retired or whatever, if you are doing the same job you absolutely do deserve the same pay. There are just way too many individual extenuating circumstances to put a plan like that into effect and have it be fair. That is kind of why I am for universal programs.

If it sounds like I'm in a competition to be more frugal, I'm only competing with myself. And, believe me, I do take frugality time outs. Why, just last night I ordered Henry Rollin's latest book. That was WAY more than I normally pay for a book. But, damn, it's Henry, ya know?!

As for equal pay for equal work, yes. I mostly agree. But if you have a person needing full-time work to keep going vs an elderly person wanting to just keep busy and be useful or a student wants some part-time work for lattes and buying entertainment, you have to add into the equation "equal work for differing circumstances". Why should a person working full-time trying to keep a family going get paid the same as the student or elderly person just wanting something to do and a little money? Big difference. You guys aren't looking at the whole picture. It's not all black and white.

I stand by my belief that locale and situation should be taken into account regarding minimum wage. Yes, that means I support differing wages for differing situations. That does not mean I am heartless.

I’m for minimum wage tied to cost of living in an area. But I don’t think I can ever get on board with differing pay for the same work. Too many chances to get abused. Who is to say who deserves full pay etc. Now that I think about it more thing minimum wage to locality could be abused as well, moving your business to a town with a lower min, etc. Anyways contrary to popular belief the minimum wage was never meant to be for “starter” jobs it was meant so people didn’t have to kill themselves working. There are just too many circumstances out there that would be abused and I think that’s why it needs to be a minimum. Imagine a 16 year old gets a part time job at a factory working as hard or harder than the next guy that’s 40 doing the same job. I agree with you in a lot of your posts in the AMT, but I will always be equal work for equal pay mindset. The good thing though that I can agree with you on is that something definitely needs to change with how things are, and I can tell that you want a world that is better for all people!

oh and congrats on the book splurge!

Well, look at it this way, no body is high office is going to hear let alone listen to my cockamamie ideas anyway, lol.

Say, I wonder where on earth that word came from- cockamamie. Weird, huh?

And thanks. Yeah, I must be a bit of a Rollins fanatic. When this next book arrives, I will have a total of 34 of Henry's books. A bit obsessive I suppose!

dankind · February 2021

I think that a 14- to 17-year-old me would not even bother looking for a part-time job for partial pay, and I’d probably have all sorts of angst—that is, in addition to my normal teen angst—about being a second-class citizen.

And I’d likely commit a lot more petty crimes (shoplifting, burglary, trespassing).

mickeyrat · February 2021

likely he says

Gern Blansten · February 2021

https://twitter.com/existentialfish/status/1359895931064262656

Fucking idiot

#46 President Joe Biden

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