2023/2024 NBA Season October 18th Opening Tip off! Pg 48

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Comments

  • An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    I personally like to see everyone balling together, just get rid of those stupid east/west jerseys and let them hoop in their own.
    I mean I am not a fan of all star games much anymore, I'm just talking about getting more people together who aren't in their usual team "bubble" in the pandemic seems to be more trouble than it's worth. 
    I think the players like it more than the fans.

    Except Griffey Jr.  I think he hated any allstar game, lol.
  • cutzcutz Posts: 11,400
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    I personally like to see everyone balling together, just get rid of those stupid east/west jerseys and let them hoop in their own.
    How about International vs U.S.A. ?
  • cutz said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    I personally like to see everyone balling together, just get rid of those stupid east/west jerseys and let them hoop in their own.
    How about International vs U.S.A. ?
    That's cool every 4 years when it's called the Olympics.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,170
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,139
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    Case to be made for that, certainly. With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,170
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,170
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201
    All-Star game is lame. I think a dunk contest would be cool though. You could easily just have the contestants live stream their dunks from their team’s practice facility. Wouldn’t be as much fun without fan reactions and such but would be better than nothing and there wouldn’t be any added risk. 
  • RiotZact said:
    All-Star game is lame. I think a dunk contest would be cool though. You could easily just have the contestants live stream their dunks from their team’s practice facility. Wouldn’t be as much fun without fan reactions and such but would be better than nothing and there wouldn’t be any added risk. 
    Don't even bother if this is what they do.  Not interested...
  • Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,139
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,139
    edited January 2021
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Logic makes sense.

    I still want an allstar game.  I'm selfish...
  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,412
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Logic makes sense.

    I still want an allstar game.  I'm selfish...
    Like your boy Lebron..lol..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,139
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Logic makes sense.

    I still want an allstar game.  I'm selfish...
    Big game tonight!
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,170
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Logic makes sense.

    I still want an allstar game.  I'm selfish...
    Big game tonight!
    Yep, Celts at Spurs. Huge game.  ;)
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • 23scidoo said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Logic makes sense.

    I still want an allstar game.  I'm selfish...
    Like your boy Lebron..lol..
    You must hate on Brady and Gretzky too huh?
  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,412
    23scidoo said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Logic makes sense.

    I still want an allstar game.  I'm selfish...
    Like your boy Lebron..lol..
    You must hate on Brady and Gretzky too huh?
    I know Brady but not the other guy..i have respect for Brady and for LeBron.. but he has big ego like Ronaldo ..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.
    They are all at risk now anyways.  If they follow protocol and don't break that then the risk should be very limited.  It's when people do stupid shit that ruin it for others.
    Stupid shit =  a mass gathering of people, during a global pandemic, for an exhibition basketball game.


    Again, they do it with 2 teams pretty much every night anyway so chalk that up to stupid shit too?

    Come on now...

    Go Lakers.
    Kind of, yeah. lol
    At least those games matter. But look how many games are being cancelled or postponed. The Wizards just had over two weeks off. 

    And with an all star game,  you'll have more people in the same arena who are not normally around each other so they're going to be placed at a higher risk than usual.  It's a bad idea. If a player tests positive at an all star game with a bunch of players from a bunch of different teams, I'd imagine a lot more teams than before will have games postponed as a result...or will be without their best players for a period of time. 
    Logic makes sense.

    I still want an allstar game.  I'm selfish...
    Like your boy Lebron..lol..
    You must hate on Brady and Gretzky too huh?
    I know Brady but not the other guy..i have respect for Brady and for LeBron.. but he has big ego like Ronaldo ..
    When you are that good you get to have that as far as I am concerned.

    Gretzy, Wayne is the greatest hockey player to have ever lived.  Look up the term "Gretzky Factor" when applied to other sports.  It's pretty amazing what he did that no other hockey player ever will.
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,382
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    An all star game seems like a ridiculous idea during a global pandemic, doesn't it?
    Seems quite the stupid idea.
    Then they shouldn't be playing at all if that's how you feel...
    With an all star game, you will have even more people together who are not normally together. So I would think that poses a great risk than how they are doing it now. 
    Correct.
    Plus its an exhibition game. Playing real games and ultimately playoffs is different than an all star game. Apple and oranges.
    Not really.  There is no bubble anymore for any of them so as long as they go through the protocols I say let them play.
    But the all star game is an unnecessary exhibition. Why take any added risk that could jeopardize players for games that actually count.

    because it’s “black thanksgiving,” that’s why!!!!!!
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,382
    guess who holds the Jazz record for made 3’s.

    john stockton? no.

    gordon hayward? no.

    jeff hornacek? no.













    this fucking guy holds the record. every team should have a slo-mo joe.


    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • PapPap Aspra Spitia, Greece Posts: 28,122
    ^ Great player! :clap:
    Athens 2006 / Milton Keynes 2014 / London 1&2 2022 / Seattle 1 2024 / Dublin 2024 / Manchester 2024 / London 2024
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,382
    I don’t know about “great,” but a super valuable asset!
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,412
    Crazy finale on Chicago!!!!
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 18,412
    Jokic stop Jazz..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,382
    23scidoo said:
    Jokic stop Jazz..

    I predicted it. It had to happen.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
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