Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,538
    Biden
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,831
    Biden
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 

    Without the primary system we never would have seen Slick Willie nor Barack Obama become POTUS.  Letting the rotting sewer systems pick their own candidates would only work better if we had about 20 parties to choose from.

    Not saying the primary system isn't messy (I cannot stand how the media stands up who they think the leaders will be before a single primary is held...and it is way too long...and some states don't even have a say based on the way it is laid out) but I do not think the system you describe is any more desirable.  Trump is a symbol of what is wrong with people more than what is wrong with system.  He would have been laughed off the primary podium without such a huge percentage of this country being total fucking morons.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    Biden
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    I'm not understanding why it is weird that people vote in a primary to pick who they want to run for their respective party.  I agree that there is some primary fatigue after a while but I don't see how else to do it.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,538
    Biden
    F Me In The Brain said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 

    Without the primary system we never would have seen Slick Willie nor Barack Obama become POTUS.  Letting the rotting sewer systems pick their own candidates would only work better if we had about 20 parties to choose from.

    Not saying the primary system isn't messy (I cannot stand how the media stands up who they think the leaders will be before a single primary is held...and it is way too long...and some states don't even have a say based on the way it is laid out) but I do not think the system you describe is any more desirable.  Trump is a symbol of what is wrong with people more than what is wrong with system.  He would have been laughed off the primary podium without such a huge percentage of this country being total fucking morons.
    how is never having trump as president less desirable? and why would bill or barry never be potus without the primary system?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited January 2021
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    One thing  I would like to add that you guys get right you vote for your president and senators individually. I have to vote for a member of parliament that is the same party as the prime minister that I want. I despise my conservative MP in my riding and much prefer the liberal MP who was currently elected. If I want a conservative prime minster I have to vote for the PC MP I do not want. 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,538
    Biden
    PJNB said:
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    One thing  I would like to add that you guys get right you vote for your president and senators individually. I have to vote for a member of parliament that is the same party as the prime minister that I want. I despise my conservative MP in my riding and much prefer the liberal MP who was currently elected. If I want a conservative prime minster I have to vote for the PC MP I do not want. 
    yeah, i'd love to be able to vote individually as well. it's dumb our vote is for the entire party. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,831
    Biden
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 

    Without the primary system we never would have seen Slick Willie nor Barack Obama become POTUS.  Letting the rotting sewer systems pick their own candidates would only work better if we had about 20 parties to choose from.

    Not saying the primary system isn't messy (I cannot stand how the media stands up who they think the leaders will be before a single primary is held...and it is way too long...and some states don't even have a say based on the way it is laid out) but I do not think the system you describe is any more desirable.  Trump is a symbol of what is wrong with people more than what is wrong with system.  He would have been laughed off the primary podium without such a huge percentage of this country being total fucking morons.
    how is never having trump as president less desirable? and why would bill or barry never be potus without the primary system?

    Neither of those fellows were high on anyone's radar as POTUS favorites as the primaries began. 
    Don't recall who it might have been in 92....Tsongas?  Brown?  Would not have been Clinton.  Most didn't even know who the dude was before Gennifer Flowers came out.
    In 08 it would have been Hillary.  No doubt.  (Unless Bill had never been President and it had been Tsongas. :lol: )

    We cannot change the entire system to block Trump.  You read past my point about it being the idiots much more than the system.  We have hundreds of years in place without Donald Trump.  The country is fucked up and we do some bad shit to anyone who isn't white and we do bad shit to other countries and we don't support anyone well who doesn't have a lot of money....but the problem isn't primaries.  The problem is people.  Largely, white people.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,540
    edited January 2021
    Biden
    Rank Choice Voting - let as many parties, candidates run as they'd like. Then the individual with the best policy proposals and ideas will win. I stick that this is the opposite of sports where the name on the front of the jersey (political party) matters more than the name on the back (candidate). Less institutional power is needed in politics. RCV gets rid of the need of primaries. Between only one election and taking away the power of parties all of a sudden you have shorter election cycles so that public servants can, ya know, serve the public. Then you reform finances of both campaigns and coporations, so that corporations aren't treated like individuals humans and reduce the power of PACs.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,886
    Biden
    mcgruff10 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    I'm not understanding why it is weird that people vote in a primary to pick who they want to run for their respective party.  I agree that there is some primary fatigue after a while but I don't see how else to do it.  
    This is much closer to democracy than how UK or Canada chooses its PM.
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,831
    Biden
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    Rank Choice Voting - let as many parties, candidates run as they'd like. Then the individual with the best policy proposals and ideas will win. I stick that this is the opposite of sports where the name on the front of the jersey (political party) matters more than the name on the back (candidate). Less institutional power is needed in politics. RCV gets rid of the need of primaries. Between only one election and taking away the power of parties all of a sudden you have shorter election cycles so that public servants can, ya know, serve the public. Then you reform finances of both campaigns and coporations, so that corporations aren't treated like individuals humans and reduce the power of PACs.

    This makes sense, not knowing much more about it than you shared.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,886
    Biden
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I m not understanding rank choice voting.  Like who votes? How do you know who’s policy is better? 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,538
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    brianlux said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i have been saying for years that we should not have a 2.5 year campaign for a 4 year job. it is just fucking insane.

    This!  Canada has it figured out, why can't we?
    the primary system is also ridiculous. our parties pick their own leaders in house based on who they think the people will vote for. none of this 13 people parading around the country and voting for the person you eventually hope to vote for. it's so weird. 
    I'm not understanding why it is weird that people vote in a primary to pick who they want to run for their respective party.  I agree that there is some primary fatigue after a while but I don't see how else to do it.  
    This is much closer to democracy than how UK or Canada chooses its PM.
    maybe in principle, but when it essentially comes down to who has more money and which candidates are given time to speak on the stage, they're kind of chosen for you. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,540
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I'm not talking about just the Presidential here. You can get there if you start bottom-up. States need to change the way they vote.
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,540
    edited January 2021
    Biden
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I m not understanding rank choice voting.  Like who votes? How do you know who’s policy is better? 
    What do you mean who votes? You vote. You figure out candidates' stances just like you do in every other election.

    RCV you can vote for as many or as little candidates as you'd like to vote for, and you rank them - #1 most preferred #Z least preferred.
    Post edited by Jearlpam0925 on
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    edited January 2021
    Biden
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I m not understanding rank choice voting.  Like who votes? How do you know who’s policy is better? 
    What do you mean who votes? You vote.
    Ok I just read up on it.....No thanks.
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,540
    Biden
    And now that I think about it - EC votes could still be doled via RCV.

    Also to explain further - candidates then are tallied by their amount of votes. If any one candidate garners a majority of #1 votes they're automatically the winner. Otherwise, you keep lopping off the least preferred until you get a majority. Better explained here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHRPMJmzBBw
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,540
    Biden
    Hey this is good, too:

    https://youtu.be/v7gZPEeOh1I
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,886
    Biden
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I'm not talking about just the Presidential here. You can get there if you start bottom-up. States need to change the way they vote.
    I see.  Yes, it can be used in local elections (Maine?), but I'm cynical on the presidential side
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,540
    edited January 2021
    Biden
    mrussel1 said:
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Rank choice voting requires the elimination of the electoral college,  unless you want every election decided in the house.  It's a pipe dream 
    I'm not talking about just the Presidential here. You can get there if you start bottom-up. States need to change the way they vote.
    I see.  Yes, it can be used in local elections (Maine?), but I'm cynical on the presidential side
    I mean you're doing the same thing - awarding the EC votes to the winner of a state's election. Yes, Maine used it for the Presidential, too.

    I don't see the downside in rewarding the candidate with the broadest appeal instead of the one that fans flames.

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