Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!
Comments
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BidenSpiritual_Chaos said:Sam Elliot?
I was wondering who the narrator is. I think you might be right.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Biden
He did a handfulHalifax2TheMax said:
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."static111 said:
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.Halifax2TheMax said:
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?static111 said:
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Biden
Definitely sam elliot. unmistakable.brianlux said:By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
BidenHey Don The Con,
There's a process we go through in elections called counting the votes. Win or Lose, you won't know the result until ALL the votes are counted. Just sit down, be quiet and wait until the votes are counted like the rest of us have to do.
I couldn't be more disgusted by what's been going on in this political season.
Falling down,...not staying down0 -
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."static111 said:
He did a handfulHalifax2TheMax said:
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."static111 said:
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.Halifax2TheMax said:
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?static111 said:
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
I'm sitting this one outI don't see that much difference between suppressing voters and keeping or working to lower that low 55%(?) voter turnout, and throwing away ballots cast after the fact.
Pretty much the same crime against democracy."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Biden
To your other point and this one...static111 said:
The working class is much more diverse than middle aged white men lol. That is a huge problem equating millions of diverse people as drooling Trump voting morons because of their social economic status. Construction workers, service workers, frontline workers, store clerks, landscapers, factory workers etc...all these people are middle aged white men that harken back to the days of yore? That is a pretty simplistic view of things.mrussel1 said:
Democrats.. and gay marriage, obamacare, abortion, etc. Working class whites are not with us here. They are stuck in the 50's/60's.Spiritual_Chaos said:
"our positions on social issues"mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
What social issues, and who are "us" ?
I completely understand your point, but I don't think people like you are the ones that have left the D party. You went left, the majority went to the right. And it's not because of taxes and healthcare, it was about social issues. Now I agree that Trump grabbed some Obama voters with the populist message, I'm just not convinced that's the majority of the working class.0 -
I'm sitting this one outDid the white working class vote for Obama?"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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Biden
Certainly many did. But the question is whether the acceleration of progressive social issues turned them back to Trump, or could it have been economic issues as Static or Bernie might indicated. The answer is probably both, but I have always felt that the social issues, immigration, and the like is what moved them right. Obviously no one can make a statement that encompasses all people of a certain class, race, religion, etc.Spiritual_Chaos said:Did the white working class vote for Obama?0 -
Biden
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.Halifax2TheMax said:
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."static111 said:
He did a handfulHalifax2TheMax said:
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."static111 said:
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.Halifax2TheMax said:
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?static111 said:
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.Post edited by static111 onScio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Biden
I concur with your statement here. And judging frommrussel1 said:
To your other point and this one...static111 said:
The working class is much more diverse than middle aged white men lol. That is a huge problem equating millions of diverse people as drooling Trump voting morons because of their social economic status. Construction workers, service workers, frontline workers, store clerks, landscapers, factory workers etc...all these people are middle aged white men that harken back to the days of yore? That is a pretty simplistic view of things.mrussel1 said:
Democrats.. and gay marriage, obamacare, abortion, etc. Working class whites are not with us here. They are stuck in the 50's/60's.Spiritual_Chaos said:
"our positions on social issues"mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
What social issues, and who are "us" ?
I completely understand your point, but I don't think people like you are the ones that have left the D party. You went left, the majority went to the right. And it's not because of taxes and healthcare, it was about social issues. Now I agree that Trump grabbed some Obama voters with the populist message, I'm just not convinced that's the majority of the working class.
my life experiences in the working class it really comes down to economic anxiety and loud mouth GOP politicians pointing the finger to blame some other group that fuels all
of the right wing hysteria amongst the NCWs. I really believe if we Do more to support the working class we can solve a lot of problems. If everyone had good wages and a path to some form
of economic stability we would see less blame going around. Getting away from paying benefits by allowing 36 hour work weeks is something that needs to be taken care of. Higher wages For the working class(fight for 15) that would reduce that NCW economic anxiety coupled with existing affirmative action programs would help reduce the White-Minority wealth gap. Not to mention the urgent need to fixthe public education system that GOP and the more Neo-Liberal Democrats have destroyed over the years. That wouldn’t solve racism or fix backwards ideas of NCWs right away but it would be a good start.Post edited by static111 onScio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"static111 said:
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.Halifax2TheMax said:
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."static111 said:
He did a handfulHalifax2TheMax said:
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."static111 said:
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.Halifax2TheMax said:
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?static111 said:
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
BidenSometimes I miss automatic multi quotePost edited by static111 onScio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
BidenHalifax2TheMax said:
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"static111 said:
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.Halifax2TheMax said:
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."static111 said:
He did a handfulHalifax2TheMax said:
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."static111 said:
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.Halifax2TheMax said:
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?static111 said:
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
This all started in response to @mrussel1 a comment about the working class. Let’s ask him what definition he was meaning? I think usually it refers to people that aren’t in middle management and above and do actual labor. What do you traditionally think of when you think of the working class @halifax2t@Halifax2TheMax ?mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
is there a political scientist approved definition?Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
I typically think blue collar within a defined income range. But I'm not sure what the low and high ends of that are. $35K to $60K? I'm just trying to understand why you would say if dems cared about "working class" issues, the "working class" would be a given to go dem. That has not been the case since at least Reagan.static111 said:Halifax2TheMax said:
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"static111 said:
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.Halifax2TheMax said:
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."static111 said:
He did a handfulHalifax2TheMax said:
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."static111 said:
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.Halifax2TheMax said:
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?static111 said:
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
This all started in response to @mrussel1 a comment about the working class. Let’s ask him what definition he was meaning? I think usually it refers to people that aren’t in middle management and above and do actual labor. What do you traditionally think of when you think of the working class @halifax2t@Halifax2TheMax ?mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
is there a political scientist approved definition?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Biden
I think of it as blue collar jobs. Construction, electrician, etc. You might be in charge of 3 HVAC guys but you're still working class. By contrast, a teller at the bank, a customer service rep, i think of that as white collar. Maybe my definition isn't the official political media one though.static111 said:Halifax2TheMax said:
How do you define "working class?" I work, am I working class? Is it by type of job, blue collar versus white collar, for example? Or is it by income range? If so, what's the range? And who makes up the other 60% of "working class?"static111 said:
I tried to find some statistics. The best I could find was that NCWs make up approximately 40% of the “working class” this according to an article from CBS in 2019. According to PEW election data 60% of NCW “working class” support Trump. So that makes up what 24% of NCW “working class” that support trump. I would say yes working class policies would make working class votes a given. Now if instead of actually saying “working class” and instead saying NCWs that support Trump I would agree that isn’t a given, but NCW Trump voters are actually a minority of the working class.Halifax2TheMax said:
Who's discounting "millions of working people?" You claimed that if the democratic ideals are embraced and promoted, "working class" would be a given. The "working class" is a large diverse group and the white, non-educated, the largest bloc, have increasingly left the dems because of the "other." They're not nor have they ever really been, a "given."static111 said:
He did a handfulHalifax2TheMax said:
And yet he fired unionized air traffic controllers, weakened unions and overwhelming won re-election with support of the "working class." Some "given."static111 said:
Jimmy Carter being a weak president. Also began deregulating industries Which angered many unions.Halifax2TheMax said:
“A given?” How do you explain Reagan, then?static111 said:
This is misleading man. I’m working class as are millions of other people that support the social issues of the democrat party. Not everyone that isn’t a CPA or PMP votes for Trump and the Repubs. The reason Trump got elected is because he promised t working class something. Granted he had no intention to deliver but he did at least make the effort to lie. Abandoning working class as it were because they don’t share your social positions is not smart politics. Honestly if you provide policies that help lower class and working class out In their lives it will be easier for people like me to talk to the people you are thinking of about the social issues. A rising tide floats all boats. If you provide the policies And not just hollow promises for the “working class“ whatever that actually means, They will come and the Democrats. Will have that old faithful reliable voting block in the pocket again. When unions were strong and wages were high and property was affordable the working class vote was a given.mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
of good things but was overall very conservative and weak for the working class. As wonderful of a philanthropist as he is now does not negate that he was a weak president that was very conservative by democrat standards and would likely not have been supported had not a flux of conservatives fled the republicans after Nixon. But sure let’s discount millions of working people cause a small drooling minority of them support trump.
This all started in response to @mrussel1 a comment about the working class. Let’s ask him what definition he was meaning? I think usually it refers to people that aren’t in middle management and above and do actual labor. What do you traditionally think of when you think of the working class @halifax2t@Halifax2TheMax ?mrussel1 said:
The problem is that the working class despises our positions on social issues. So what do you do? Do you advocate for your actual constituency, or change your social stances?Spiritual_Chaos said:Sen. Bernie Sanders Calls Out the Democratic Party's Neglect of the Working Class
https://youtu.be/TmJnP3VXqSc
is there a political scientist approved definition?0 -
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