Riots/Looting/Violence and general post-George Floyd madness

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

cincybearcat said:

dankind said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

I think the key to G.B.'s statement is work.  Optimism has far less to do with making good changes than does hard work.  I keep coming back to that theme:  hard work. 

I'm not a fan of it but, yes, burning down businesses and building will get attention to the problem.  But what is going to lead to change is smart thinking, good, competent leadership and hard work.  We are not going to accomplish positive change unless more people do (and support with their dollars) the work.

And I don't mean just clicking on an on-line petition.  That is not work.  I'm talking about attending meetings, participating at least at the city, county, and state level.  Organizing gatherings to promote awareness.  Hand writing and personally calling representatives.  Tithing your income to environmental and social organizations.  Cleaning garbage off of beaches and planting trees.  Educating one's self and passing along reliable information on to others.  Being courteous to your fellow humans and standing up for all animals.

Let's see who is up for that.

As someone who’s been doing all
of those things for decades, I haven’t really seen the fruits of this labor, and I’ve crossed the threshold from faith to fatigue. 

I’d rather just move to one of the dozens of countries that have better healthcare, education, sustainability, etc., because I honestly don’t think the US nor it’s citizens are worth it. 

Have you looked into moving to one of these countries? Wondering the process for being a recipient of the heath care works for people that move there.

PJNB said:

cincybearcat said:

dankind said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

I think the key to G.B.'s statement is work.  Optimism has far less to do with making good changes than does hard work.  I keep coming back to that theme:  hard work. 

I'm not a fan of it but, yes, burning down businesses and building will get attention to the problem.  But what is going to lead to change is smart thinking, good, competent leadership and hard work.  We are not going to accomplish positive change unless more people do (and support with their dollars) the work.

And I don't mean just clicking on an on-line petition.  That is not work.  I'm talking about attending meetings, participating at least at the city, county, and state level.  Organizing gatherings to promote awareness.  Hand writing and personally calling representatives.  Tithing your income to environmental and social organizations.  Cleaning garbage off of beaches and planting trees.  Educating one's self and passing along reliable information on to others.  Being courteous to your fellow humans and standing up for all animals.

Let's see who is up for that.

As someone who’s been doing all
of those things for decades, I haven’t really seen the fruits of this labor, and I’ve crossed the threshold from faith to fatigue. 

I’d rather just move to one of the dozens of countries that have better healthcare, education, sustainability, etc., because I honestly don’t think the US nor it’s citizens are worth it. 

Have you looked into moving to one of these countries? Wondering the process for being a recipient of the heath care works for people that move there.

For Canada I think the hardest part is to become a citizen. Once a citizen depending on the province you reside in health care should be available to you either right away or a maximum of 90 days. 

dignin said:

PJNB said:

cincybearcat said:

dankind said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

I think the key to G.B.'s statement is work.  Optimism has far less to do with making good changes than does hard work.  I keep coming back to that theme:  hard work. 

I'm not a fan of it but, yes, burning down businesses and building will get attention to the problem.  But what is going to lead to change is smart thinking, good, competent leadership and hard work.  We are not going to accomplish positive change unless more people do (and support with their dollars) the work.

And I don't mean just clicking on an on-line petition.  That is not work.  I'm talking about attending meetings, participating at least at the city, county, and state level.  Organizing gatherings to promote awareness.  Hand writing and personally calling representatives.  Tithing your income to environmental and social organizations.  Cleaning garbage off of beaches and planting trees.  Educating one's self and passing along reliable information on to others.  Being courteous to your fellow humans and standing up for all animals.

Let's see who is up for that.

As someone who’s been doing all
of those things for decades, I haven’t really seen the fruits of this labor, and I’ve crossed the threshold from faith to fatigue. 

I’d rather just move to one of the dozens of countries that have better healthcare, education, sustainability, etc., because I honestly don’t think the US nor it’s citizens are worth it. 

Have you looked into moving to one of these countries? Wondering the process for being a recipient of the heath care works for people that move there.

For Canada I think the hardest part is to become a citizen. Once a citizen depending on the province you reside in health care should be available to you either right away or a maximum of 90 days. 

I don't think you need to be a citizen to get health care here in Alberta. My brother in-law who is an American has a healthcare number and he isn't a citizen. Maybe just a permanent resident? I will have to ask him because I'm curious now.

oftenreading said:

dignin said:

PJNB said:

cincybearcat said:

dankind said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

I think the key to G.B.'s statement is work.  Optimism has far less to do with making good changes than does hard work.  I keep coming back to that theme:  hard work. 

I'm not a fan of it but, yes, burning down businesses and building will get attention to the problem.  But what is going to lead to change is smart thinking, good, competent leadership and hard work.  We are not going to accomplish positive change unless more people do (and support with their dollars) the work.

And I don't mean just clicking on an on-line petition.  That is not work.  I'm talking about attending meetings, participating at least at the city, county, and state level.  Organizing gatherings to promote awareness.  Hand writing and personally calling representatives.  Tithing your income to environmental and social organizations.  Cleaning garbage off of beaches and planting trees.  Educating one's self and passing along reliable information on to others.  Being courteous to your fellow humans and standing up for all animals.

Let's see who is up for that.

As someone who’s been doing all
of those things for decades, I haven’t really seen the fruits of this labor, and I’ve crossed the threshold from faith to fatigue. 

I’d rather just move to one of the dozens of countries that have better healthcare, education, sustainability, etc., because I honestly don’t think the US nor it’s citizens are worth it. 

Have you looked into moving to one of these countries? Wondering the process for being a recipient of the heath care works for people that move there.

For Canada I think the hardest part is to become a citizen. Once a citizen depending on the province you reside in health care should be available to you either right away or a maximum of 90 days. 

I don't think you need to be a citizen to get health care here in Alberta. My brother in-law who is an American has a healthcare number and he isn't a citizen. Maybe just a permanent resident? I will have to ask him because I'm curious now.

You are correct that if you are a PR you have can live in Canada indefinitely and enjoy almost all the benefits, including health care. You don't get a Canadian passport and you can't vote or hold elected office, but that's about it for differences. 

brianlux said:

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

I think the key to G.B.'s statement is work.  Optimism has far less to do with making good changes than does hard work.  I keep coming back to that theme:  hard work. 

I'm not a fan of it but, yes, burning down businesses and building will get attention to the problem.  But what is going to lead to change is smart thinking, good, competent leadership and hard work.  We are not going to accomplish positive change unless more people do (and support with their dollars) the work.

And I don't mean just clicking on an on-line petition.  That is not work.  I'm talking about attending meetings, participating at least at the city, county, and state level.  Organizing gatherings to promote awareness.  Hand writing and personally calling representatives.  Tithing your income to environmental and social organizations.  Cleaning garbage off of beaches and planting trees.  Educating one's self and passing along reliable information on to others.  Being courteous to your fellow humans and standing up for all animals.

Let's see who is up for that.

My family is doing that in Austin.  Our efforts combined with the community at large has led the city to reallocate $100 million of police budget dollars to community issues.   But there are still ways for the cops to access that money and of course there is a huge smear campaign going on that we are all radical communists or something and that the police won’t be able to function etc.  and the work still isn’t stopping.   How long realistically is the work supposed to last.  It’s been 155 years since the civil war ended. 70 years since schools began integration and only roughly 55 years since African Americans were guaranteed to have their vote protected.  I realize that there is more than protests and online clicks. The real question for me isn’t if we can do the hard work it’s if we can do the hard work long enough to achieve real structural change before more of the same state based violence gives way to chaos that makes the last few months look like a stroll through candy land.

My answer to your question is couched in my reply above to dankind and what I've said elsewhere:  it involves determination, smart thinking, good leadership, and a greater number of people doing the hard work.  These days, we are lacking in most if not all of that.  Too few us us are willing to dig in and do the work.  And some of us are just plain worn out shouldering the burden.  I've heard this from others of my generation- both the warriors and peacemakers.  We are tired and we have not had enough support.  Posting shit on social media and clicking on-line petitions isn't cutting it. 

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

I think the key to G.B.'s statement is work.  Optimism has far less to do with making good changes than does hard work.  I keep coming back to that theme:  hard work. 

I'm not a fan of it but, yes, burning down businesses and building will get attention to the problem.  But what is going to lead to change is smart thinking, good, competent leadership and hard work.  We are not going to accomplish positive change unless more people do (and support with their dollars) the work.

And I don't mean just clicking on an on-line petition.  That is not work.  I'm talking about attending meetings, participating at least at the city, county, and state level.  Organizing gatherings to promote awareness.  Hand writing and personally calling representatives.  Tithing your income to environmental and social organizations.  Cleaning garbage off of beaches and planting trees.  Educating one's self and passing along reliable information on to others.  Being courteous to your fellow humans and standing up for all animals.

Let's see who is up for that.

My family is doing that in Austin.  Our efforts combined with the community at large has led the city to reallocate $100 million of police budget dollars to community issues.   But there are still ways for the cops to access that money and of course there is a huge smear campaign going on that we are all radical communists or something and that the police won’t be able to function etc.  and the work still isn’t stopping.   How long realistically is the work supposed to last.  It’s been 155 years since the civil war ended. 70 years since schools began integration and only roughly 55 years since African Americans were guaranteed to have their vote protected.  I realize that there is more than protests and online clicks. The real question for me isn’t if we can do the hard work it’s if we can do the hard work long enough to achieve real structural change before more of the same state based violence gives way to chaos that makes the last few months look like a stroll through candy land.

My answer to your question is couched in my reply above to dankind and what I've said elsewhere:  it involves determination, smart thinking, good leadership, and a greater number of people doing the hard work.  These days, we are lacking in most if not all of that.  Too few us us are willing to dig in and do the work.  And some of us are just plain worn out shouldering the burden.  I've heard this from others of my generation- both the warriors and peacemakers.  We are tired and we have not had enough support.  Posting shit on social media and clicking on-line petitions isn't cutting it. 

Agreed about click petitions and social media Bri.  Also agreed about the hard work having to be put in.  Since this has been happening for long before I was born and we still have so far to go I question if we can get there before it is to late.   We’ve had over 50 years to make the gradual changes since Civil Rights began being seen as a serious issue.  I really believe that we need to accelerate the timeline or it will kill The USA.

And to tag onto the original article that Halifax posted last night that really sent me into the doom and gloom.  No amount of city council meetings and legislation is going to stop the attitudes of grown men who would punch 60 year old women In the stomach and justify it by claiming democrats are evil while they shout all lives matter.

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

static111 said:

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can we just give Tejas to Mexico in exchange for them building the wall?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/protests-violence/2020/08/27/3f232e66-e578-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

”Peaceful protests.”

Everyday I feel more and more like we need another civil war and this time the winning side needs to be ruthless in establishing dominance 

Ummm, no thanks.

Yeah. I’m more for way higher voter turnout so these jag-offs go back under their rocks. 

Voter turnout stops Trump.  Not the larger issues of racism  and property over people.

That’s the long haul. Preserving a liberal democracy with a diverse population is going to take 20-30 years of work. 

Do you think we have 20-30 years of bi monthly slayings of black males by the state continues? If we keep slashing taxes for the wealthy and nothing trickles down? If the fed allows inflation to grow while wages are stagnant as we continue to measure the health of the economy by the stock market?  I’m not that optimistic.  

I think the key to G.B.'s statement is work.  Optimism has far less to do with making good changes than does hard work.  I keep coming back to that theme:  hard work. 

I'm not a fan of it but, yes, burning down businesses and building will get attention to the problem.  But what is going to lead to change is smart thinking, good, competent leadership and hard work.  We are not going to accomplish positive change unless more people do (and support with their dollars) the work.

And I don't mean just clicking on an on-line petition.  That is not work.  I'm talking about attending meetings, participating at least at the city, county, and state level.  Organizing gatherings to promote awareness.  Hand writing and personally calling representatives.  Tithing your income to environmental and social organizations.  Cleaning garbage off of beaches and planting trees.  Educating one's self and passing along reliable information on to others.  Being courteous to your fellow humans and standing up for all animals.

Let's see who is up for that.

My family is doing that in Austin.  Our efforts combined with the community at large has led the city to reallocate $100 million of police budget dollars to community issues.   But there are still ways for the cops to access that money and of course there is a huge smear campaign going on that we are all radical communists or something and that the police won’t be able to function etc.  and the work still isn’t stopping.   How long realistically is the work supposed to last.  It’s been 155 years since the civil war ended. 70 years since schools began integration and only roughly 55 years since African Americans were guaranteed to have their vote protected.  I realize that there is more than protests and online clicks. The real question for me isn’t if we can do the hard work it’s if we can do the hard work long enough to achieve real structural change before more of the same state based violence gives way to chaos that makes the last few months look like a stroll through candy land.

My answer to your question is couched in my reply above to dankind and what I've said elsewhere:  it involves determination, smart thinking, good leadership, and a greater number of people doing the hard work.  These days, we are lacking in most if not all of that.  Too few us us are willing to dig in and do the work.  And some of us are just plain worn out shouldering the burden.  I've heard this from others of my generation- both the warriors and peacemakers.  We are tired and we have not had enough support.  Posting shit on social media and clicking on-line petitions isn't cutting it. 

Agreed about click petitions and social media Bri.  Also agreed about the hard work having to be put in.  Since this has been happening for long before I was born and we still have so far to go I question if we can get there before it is to late.   We’ve had over 50 years to make the gradual changes since Civil Rights began being seen as a serious issue.  I really believe that we need to accelerate the timeline or it will kill The USA.

And to tag onto the original article that Halifax posted last night that really sent me into the doom and gloom.  No amount of city council meetings and legislation is going to stop the attitudes of grown men who would punch 60 year old women In the stomach and justify it by claiming democrats are evil while they shout all lives matter.

I believe you are right, 111, and that's sad because we we're making good progress at times during these last 50 years.  I truly hope we start moving fast in the right direction, but it is hard to hold out hope.  Yest still, I try to remain hopeful.

I agree Brian. I guess its hardest to hold on to the hope when it seems like it is the most hopeless.  Can't get stuck in the dark too long, because there is still work to do!