Is the Athens boot really that bad?

Spencer · October 2006

Athina wrote:

Come on guys... You are writing like 70year-olds full of weird comments.
The show was something else... We had been waiting for it all these years... That's why we all sang that loud, to express our feelings. For most of us in Greece it was the first time we shaw them live. How was your first live experience??? So get a grip and do not judge that bad on live shows. They are taking place for the crowds to sing and yell, not to be criticized for the sound...

The show WAS something else, that's the point though. It's a fantastic show that I'll probably only ever listen to once due to some inconsiderate fans and some lazy audio mixing...and I just think that's a shame.

The live shows are for people to yell and sing, yes, but the bootlegs are to listen to THE BAND. Totally different experience.

Avocado Surf Co. · October 2006

I held off on getting this one till the other night. I'm a boot addict and have most of the 2006 shows so far (only missing about 5). I've purchased most of them.

I'd heard such bad things about this one that I just traded with a buddy. Man... if I'd paid for this one I think I'd be demanding my money back.

Lets hear it for a remix.

goldstar · October 2006

spencer wrote:

...due to some inconsiderate fans...and I just think that's a shame.

The live shows are for people to yell and sing, yes.

alright. first off: i have learned to manage (somehow) with the squeeking girl. i can thuroughly enjoy most of the show. the 2 main tracks which were "ruined" are footsteps and betterman, and it's a terrible thing. really. the screaming thing just murders the songs. i get chills running down my spine when she starts her singing antics. really. it's terrible. i twitch and nearly suffer a spasm.

however: you CANNOT call a fan screaming her lungs out during a show (probably one of her first ones, if not THE first one) and giving all the love she has for the band and the music (and yes - as we all know by now - for eddie)... where was i? oh yes. you CANNOT call that fan inconsiderate!!! i mean - for F***'s sake - she probably snapped a vocal chord screaming so hard. because - as quoted above (from the same post, though i did a BIT of editting) - the show is for people to yell and sing. a fan at a show should enjoy the show, however he or she feels like, without constantly thinking "oh, i better not shout because it'll ruin the bootleg".

F*** the bootleg.
enjoy the F***ing show.
rock on.
peace (we need it).

Pegasus · October 2006

lots of useless petitions around here but I thought that one might get us something:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=3838894

keyser · October 2006

goldstar wrote:

i have learned to manage (somehow) with the squeeking girl. i can thuroughly enjoy most of the show. the 2 main tracks which were "ruined" are footsteps and betterman [..]

nah! Black is ruined too!

By spliting the channels you can say that the girls were on mike's side. almost no screaming can be listened on ed's mic. So i think it was possible for basecamp to cut those off.

TheSkyEtc · October 2006

Low_Light03 wrote:

The show and music is great but there are some really annoying loud girls during most of the show singing along and it makes you wanna turn it off. Great band energy though, and a great acoustic version of I AM MINE.

..speaking of which,here is my take.Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWLsA83YTsI

p.s. Awesome show, especially for us Greeks, but the bootleg could be muuuuuuuch better..
I think somebody gave that girl a mic. hehe.

goldstar · October 2006

keyser wrote:

nah! Black is ruined too!

By spliting the channels you can say that the girls were on mike's side. almost no screaming can be listened on ed's mic. So i think it was possible for basecamp to cut those off.

the only vocal mic on mike's side is jeff's,
and i don't think it was even on during those 2 (ok - 3) songs,
so i don't know what to think of it all now.

anyway, it sucks, we've sucked it up.

move along now. nothing to see here.

brain of c · October 2006

i had a dog who had no nose.

how did he smell?

awfull.

goldstar · October 2006

hahahaha!!!

pantelis79 · October 2006

Athina wrote:

Come on guys... You are writing like 70year-olds full of weird comments.
The show was something else... We had been waiting for it all these years... That's why we all sang that loud, to express our feelings. For most of us in Greece it was the first time we shaw them live. How was your first live experience??? So get a grip and do not judge that bad on live shows. They are taking place for the crowds to sing and yell, not to be criticized for the sound...

This was my first Pearl Jam show, too. Most probably it was the best show I have ever attended till today - and I have attended quite many. I was also screaming my lungs out and I was just in front of Stone, by the barrier. I can't hear my voice on the bootleg, though

I suppose that the show is mixed from the soundboard feed and some mic feeds that come from above the stage, in order to catch the audience noise. Since we can only listen to 2 people from the audience, my conclusion is:The mixing is awful, period.

Aaaaa, can't wait to see them again!!

SneedyBaumbach · October 2006

Okay, I've heard mixed reviews on the Athens boot, and now someone is again pointing out the insanely loud and off-key crowd. But after watching the video posted there for "I Am Mine", I wonder, how big is the OAKA Sports Halle, attendance-wise?

I didn't look like the biggest arena from those close up shots of the stage, and if you've only got 5-10,000 people, chances are the loudest of the bunch will take up part of the mix, or at least it would sound that way on a recording --instead of the typical arena-laden sea of voices, cheers and hoots, you here a few dozen people more than others, thus making the "official" boot sound more like a fan recording. I don't know how the mix could be improved unless there are ambient noise microphones at the venues.

That's not neccessarily a bad thing; I was listening to one of the European '96 shows and I was friggin' blown away by the crowd response; it sounded like everyone in the room was singing along, and they all seemed to know the 'No Code' album by heart (a feat in an of itself); it's not often you can say a crowd keeps up with the actual act. I don't remember which city it was (I want to say Warsaw, they were apeshit for the band). Late in '96...

I've come to the conclusion that it's the theorem of international talent trade-off; when a band plays a foreign nation, they're going to get much more crowd reaction than when they play on domestic soil; we yanks tend to give the same response to U.K. bands (there are no shortages of Anglophiles on the East Coast campuses, that's for sure).

When a band doesn't come 'round but once or twice in a decade, then it's your rock-given right to let loose. Some of the most incredible live versions of songs like "Black" and "Betterman" are driven by the crowd's input on that night. They make it magic. My thoughts are that the crowd will aways be part of the set itself; they're a collective member of the group on the live recordings. Sometimes that's great; sometimes it's not; they will be on or off some nights just like any member of the the band. The difference being, the crowd's shouldn't give up the day jobs.

Of the '06 boots I have, I like the serene quality of Santa Barbara and Gorge II, but also like the way the crowd builds up on Gorge I and the San Francisco I-III boots. Los Angeles I's crowd sounds like complete shite, like most of them could care less if Tim Robbins wanted to fill in for Ed that entire night, they were detrimental to the sound on that show... I didn't even bother with Los Angeles II because of this.

So it begs the question: how much worse is Athens than Los Angeles I? If you had to rate them (and say, other raucous crowd shows this year) on a scale of 1-10, 1 being atrocious and unlistenable and 10 being steady across the board...

TheSkyEtc · October 2006

SneedyBaumbach wrote:

Okay, I've heard mixed reviews on the Athens boot, and now someone is again pointing out the insanely loud and off-key crowd. But after watching the video posted there for "I Am Mine", I wonder, how big is the OAKA Sports Halle, attendance-wise?

I didn't look like the biggest arena from those close up shots of the stage, and if you've only got 5-10,000 people, chances are the loudest of the bunch will take up part of the mix, or at least it would sound that way on a recording --instead of the typical arena-laden sea of voices, cheers and hoots, you here a few dozen people more than others, thus making the "official" boot sound more like a fan recording. I don't know how the mix could be improved unless there are ambient noise microphones at the venues.

That's not neccessarily a bad thing; I was listening to one of the European '96 shows and I was friggin' blown away by the crowd response; it sounded like everyone in the room was singing along, and they all seemed to know the 'No Code' album by heart (a feat in an of itself); it's not often you can say a crowd keeps up with the actual act. I don't remember which city it was (I want to say Warsaw, they were apeshit for the band). Late in '96...

I've come to the conclusion that it's the theorem of international talent trade-off; when a band plays a foreign nation, they're going to get much more crowd reaction than when they play on domestic soil; we yanks tend to give the same response to U.K. bands (there are no shortages of Anglophiles on the East Coast campuses, that's for sure).

When a band doesn't come 'round but once or twice in a decade, then it's your rock-given right to let loose. Some of the most incredible live versions of songs like "Black" and "Betterman" are driven by the crowd's input on that night. They make it magic. My thoughts are that the crowd will aways be part of the set itself; they're a collective member of the group on the live recordings. Sometimes that's great; sometimes it's not; they will be on or off some nights just like any member of the the band. The difference being, the crowd's shouldn't give up the day jobs.

Of the '06 boots I have, I like the serene quality of Santa Barbara and Gorge II, but also like the way the crowd builds up on Gorge I and the San Francisco I-III boots. Los Angeles I's crowd sounds like complete shite, like most of them could care less if Tim Robbins wanted to fill in for Ed that entire night, they were detrimental to the sound on that show... I didn't even bother with Los Angeles II because of this.

So it begs the question: how much worse is Athens than Los Angeles I? If you had to rate them (and say, other raucous crowd shows this year) on a scale of 1-10, 1 being atrocious and unlistenable and 10 being steady across the board...

I see your point..Well OAKA it's not THE biggest arena but that night we were around 13,000 people in there, maybe more..Can't really tell. It has 17,000 seats actually but the seats behind the stage were not used. The thing is that when that girl screams it makes it impossible to listen to the song..That's it. Period. I always skip those tracks and when I know Athens was lucky to have some kickass versions of Footsteps,I am mine,Better man etc it hurts when i cannot enjoy them in the bootleg. I know it's not the best bootleg but it has a very special meaning to us thus it's the FIRST & ONLY Athens bootleg..LA has almost a dozen.Maybe L.A.1 show didn't have a cool crowd but i'm sure there was a night that had. Anyway..The Athens bootleg is really fine except those moments. That's all. Feel free to download it. The last encore is a masterpiece...
Peace

Pegasus · October 2006

Sorry but your points don't hold of because we're not comparing the quality with N.A boots but with other European ones.
The venue is of a decent (on the big side) size, the crowd was no louder than other gigs..less so than Milan for example.
If you want to talk small crowd, Marseille it was b(and although there are some overly loud screamers in that, it does not distract to the same degree).
the difference in quality of the boot has nothing to do with the venue, all to do with the mix.

btw, there ARE ambient noise microphones, on the stage, one on each side, pointed at the audience (might be others too). That's the input from those which is WAY too high on the mix (in comparaison to other boots, again) and gives the impression that the crowd was so loud (and picks up the girls..presumably on Mike side.)

Dercheef · October 2006

SneedyBaumbach wrote:

So it begs the question: how much worse is Athens than Los Angeles I? If you had to rate them (and say, other raucous crowd shows this year) on a scale of 1-10, 1 being atrocious and unlistenable and 10 being steady across the board...

I own or have a copy of every official pj bootleg. With that said: The soundquality of the most boots is atleast good. Some of them have a pretty bad mix and therefore I don't listen to them anymore (Ottawa 05 for example: one of the guitars is incredible low).
But the Athens bootleg is in some parts just unlistenable. When I got it I listened to a few tracks and never listened to it again yet. It's the worst official pj boot imo. I'd rather listen to any dead crowd or the booing rightwing crowd of Uniondale 03.

E.K · October 2006

Who cares .. I'm glad the Greeks had a good time .. they deserved it.

Kalispera baby!

evenflow82 · October 2006

RiffJam wrote:

Great show, one of my favourites I went to but agree the boot is pretty difficult to listen to with the constant high pitched shrieking. Getting nowhere near as much play as the others as a consequence.....

Was sleater kinney in the audience?

Dercheef · October 2006

evenflow82 wrote:

Was sleater kinney in the audience?

:D:D:D:D

SneedyBaumbach · October 2006

Pegasus wrote:

Sorry but your points don't hold of because we're not comparing the quality with N.A boots but with other European ones.

I wasn't solely trying to compare North American shows with European shows, but the sound difference in all Pearl Jam shows from every nation going back some time. Scratch that if you see it as irrelevant.

Since there is only one Athens show, there are no other shows from that city to compare it to, am I correct?

Thank you for answering my question on the size of the venue.

Pegasus wrote:

the difference in quality of the boot has nothing to do with the venue, all to do with the mix.

Okay... I've heard people compare the sounds of certain shows against others citing the size of the venue and the number of the crowd, and wanted to inquire on the size of the OAKA Sportshalle. Process of elimination.

Pegasus wrote:

btw, there ARE ambient noise microphones, on the stage, one on each side, pointed at the audience (might be others too). That's the input from those which is WAY too high on the mix (in comparaison to other boots, again) and gives the impression that the crowd was so loud (and picks up the girls..presumably on Mike side.)

So it looks like we have our culprit, perhaps. I can see why if these weren't properly faded it could contaminate the entire mix of the bootleg.

Dercheef wrote:

I own or have a copy of every official pj bootleg. With that said: The soundquality of the most boots is atleast good. Some of them have a pretty bad mix and therefore I don't listen to them anymore (Ottawa 05 for example: one of the guitars is incredible low).
But the Athens bootleg is in some parts just unlistenable. When I got it I listened to a few tracks and never listened to it again yet. It's the worst official pj boot imo. I'd rather listen to any dead crowd or the booing rightwing crowd of Uniondale 03.

Some shows are better than others, a given, but this boot is already getting a reputation for being atrocious in terms of its mix. What should the next step be in rectifying this situation? Refunds? Offering the show at half-price? Posting a notice to beware that the quality did not satisfy previous purchasers?

I know I'm not going to waste the money on the show if it's as bad as you are all insisting it is (and I believe you, since we're all consumers on this end). I haven't ordered the show. I would not, nor will purchase the Athens 2006 until it is remixed to a more fitting standard.

I feel most sorry for the people who lived in or traveled to Greece and paid to see the show, then went ahead and purchased the bootleg and found out how horrible it came out sounding after the fact.

evenflow82 wrote:

Was sleater kinney in the audience?

Ouch!!! That's so mean.

But it's so damned funny...

legolandbridge · October 2006

Dercheef wrote:

I own or have a copy of every official pj bootleg. With that said: The soundquality of the most boots is atleast good. Some of them have a pretty bad mix and therefore I don't listen to them anymore (Ottawa 05 for example: one of the guitars is incredible low).
But the Athens bootleg is in some parts just unlistenable. When I got it I listened to a few tracks and never listened to it again yet. It's the worst official pj boot imo. I'd rather listen to any dead crowd or the booing rightwing crowd of Uniondale 03.

do you really have a copy of all the bootlegs? how many is that, like 100's? Party at your house?

SneedyBaumbach · October 2006

Tonton wrote:

do you really have a copy of all the bootlegs? how many is that, like 100's? Party at your house?

I may be off by a few, but including Athens, the official bootleg count would be around 240.

72 2000 shows +
73 2003 shows = 140
+ 2 Vault show, Easy Street, Benaroya Hall, LoTL and then counting all the official releases from 2005 and 2006 (90+ shows).

I wonder how much it would cost to collect them all. I've only sunk about $370-400 in releases, IN MY LIFETIME, and I have squat compared to the average fan. I am ashamed.

Is the Athens boot really that bad?

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