jeffbr said:

tbergs said:

jeffbr said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

The Juggler said:

Please don't be fooled by Sedate Trump again...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/trump-ensuring-worst-possible-outcome-coronavirus-crisis/607867

The Worst Outcome

If somebody other than Donald Trump were in the White House, the coronavirus crisis would not be unfolding this way.

MARCH 11, 2020 

At every turn, President Trump’s policy regarding coronavirus has unfolded as if guided by one rule: How can I make this crisis worse?

Presidents are not all-powerful, especially not in the case of pandemic disease. There are limits to what they can do, for good or ill. But within those limits, at every juncture, Trump’s actions have ensured the worst possible outcomes. The worst outcome for public health. The worst outcome for the American economy. The worst outcome for American global leadership.

Trump’s Oval Office speech of March 11 was the worst action yet in a string of bad actions.

Here are the things the president did not do in that speech.

He offered no guidance or policy on how to prevent the spread of the disease inside the United States. Should your town cancel its St. Patrick’s Day parade? What about theatrical productions and sporting events? Classes at schools and colleges? Nothing.

He offered no explanation of what went wrong with the U.S. testing system, nor any assurance of when testing would become more widely available. His own previous promises of testing for anyone who needs it have been exploded as false. So what is true? Nothing.

• DAVID FRUMLayoffs are coming, probably on a very large scale, as travel collapses and people hunker down at home. Any word for those about to lose their jobs? Only the vaguest indication that something might be announced sometime soon.

It’s good to hear that there will be no co-pays on the tests nobody seems able to get. What about other health-care coverage? Any word on that? Nothing.

The financial markets have plunged into a 2008-style crash, auguring a recession, perhaps a severe one. The Trump administration has had almost two months to think about this crisis. It has trial-ballooned some ideas. But, of course, fiscal policy would require assent from the House of Representatives. Trump is still pouting at Speaker Nancy Pelosi. So—aside from some preposterously unconvincing happy talk about the economy—again: nothing.

There was one something in the speech: a ban on travel from Europe, but not the United Kingdom. It’s a classic Trump formulation. It seeks to protect America by erecting a wall against the world, without thinking very hard how or whether the wall can work. The disease is already here. The numbers only look low because of our prior failure to provide adequate testing. They will not look low even four days from now. And those infected with the virus can travel from other countries and on other routes. Trump himself has already met some.

The travel ban is an act of panic. Financial futures began crashing even as Trump was talking, perhaps shocked by his lack of an economic plan, perhaps aghast at his latest attack on world trade. (The speech seemed to suggest an embargo on European-sourced cargo as well, but that looks more like a mental lapse of Trump’s than a real policy announcement. The ban on cargo was retracted by a post-speech tweet, although the ban remains in the posted transcript of the speech.) Among other things, the ban represents one more refutation by Trump of any idea of collective security against collective threats. While China offers medical assistance to Italy, he wants to sever ties to former friends—isolating America and abandoning the world.

This crisis is not of Trump’s making. What he is responsible for is his failure to respond promptly, and then his perverse and counterproductive choice of how to respond when action could be avoided no longer. Trump, in his speech, pleaded for an end to finger-pointing. It’s a strange thing for this president of all presidents to say. No American president, and precious few American politicians, have ever pointed so many fingers or hurled so much abuse as Donald Trump. What he means, of course, is: Don’t hold me to account for the things I did.

But he did do them, and he owns responsibility for those things. He cannot escape it, and he will not escape it.

More people will get sick because of his presidency than if somebody else were in charge. More people will suffer the financial hardship of sickness because of his presidency than if somebody else were in charge. The medical crisis will arrive faster and last longer than if somebody else were in charge. So, too, the economic crisis. More people will lose their jobs than if somebody else were in charge. More businesses will be pushed into bankruptcy than if somebody else were in charge. More savers will lose more savings than if somebody else were in charge. The damage to America’s global leadership will be greater than if somebody else were in charge.

There is always something malign in Trump’s incompetence. He has no care or concern for others; he cannot absorb the trouble and suffering of others as real. He monotones his way through words of love and compassion, but those words plainly have no content or meaning for him. The only thing that is real is his squalid vanity. This virus threatens to pierce that vanity, so he denied it as long as he could. What he refuses to acknowledge cannot be real, can it?

And even now that he has acknowledged the crisis, he still cannot act, because he does not know what to do. His only goal now is to shove blame onto others. Americans have to face the fact that in the grip of this pandemic, the Oval Office is for all practical purposes as empty as the glazed eyes of the man who spoke from that office tonight.

Yet we have some posters calling the address good or great lol

I thought it was good and it is the step (the travel ban) in the right direction.  Like I said, I think he finally gets that this is the real deal.  Trump definitely dropped the ball on the whole thing "But states are increasingly taking matters into their own hands, declaring states of emergency, canceling school and university classes, limiting the size of gatherings and ordering thousands of people with potential exposure to the virus into isolation."

Pathetic, South Korea is testing 10k citizens per day! Can you go and get tested today? 

Yes I believe so.  New Jersey and New York seem to be ahead of the curve on most things.  

No, you can't get tested today. They don't have any tests available unless you're acutely symptomatic. A local clinic in my city was able to order 14 tests (but see many more patients than that every day that probably should be tested now), but they still haven't received them and have no idea when they will. That's part of the problem. I agree that some states are as ahead of the curve as they can get. Washington State has been ground zero. We received almost no help from the Feds. When Pence was out here last week we were promised that there were a million tests ready, and Azar was throwing around a 4 million number. But it was completely bullshit. We are only able to test right now because we have the University of Washington Medical Center labs building out capacity to test. We could get maybe 100 - 200 tests / day through the state lab with CDC help. But the UW ramped up in just a few days to be able to test 1000/day, and more on the way. We also have the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation that is working on home test kits much like you can get for the flu. So yes, state and local government health agencies here are doing what the feds can't or won't. 

And that speech he gave wasn't good by any measure in my mind. Immediately after the speech there were clarification on top of clarification given. Trump mentioned the travel band and included trade. It turns out trade is not included in the travel ban. It turns out that US citizens are exempt from the travel ban. It turns out legal permanent residents and immediate family members are exempt. He said that costs would be waived for people being treated for COVID-19. After the fact the insurance sector said that costs for testing would be waived, not for treatment. He bungled up just about every fact and every policy he put forward. He really is a fucking moron.

It's ridiculous. The problem with this admin is that they've always tried to throw everything back at states and leaned on states rights. In doing so they stripped down federal agencies and have taken a hands off approach to basically remove themselves from being accountable, or mostly to blame, if something doesn't go well. This pandemic has made it clear what happens if this country doesn't receive a unified response and guidance that all states can follow. Instead they each keep trying to figure it out so we continue to see a domino effect where sports leagues and musicians (props to PJ!) seem to be leading the way on what to do.

Exactly right. And good call on PJ. I praised the decision when they made it, even though there was a bunch of backlash on these boards. These guys were living at ground zero and knew what was coming for the rest of the country. And we are only just now getting started with this thing. It isn't about to die off. It is about to ramp up. We're looking at the proverbial hockey stick inflection point. We don't even know how bad it is right now because we can't test! 

HughFreakingDillon said:

jeffbr said:

tbergs said:

jeffbr said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

josevolution said:

The Juggler said:

Please don't be fooled by Sedate Trump again...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/trump-ensuring-worst-possible-outcome-coronavirus-crisis/607867

The Worst Outcome

If somebody other than Donald Trump were in the White House, the coronavirus crisis would not be unfolding this way.

MARCH 11, 2020 

At every turn, President Trump’s policy regarding coronavirus has unfolded as if guided by one rule: How can I make this crisis worse?

Presidents are not all-powerful, especially not in the case of pandemic disease. There are limits to what they can do, for good or ill. But within those limits, at every juncture, Trump’s actions have ensured the worst possible outcomes. The worst outcome for public health. The worst outcome for the American economy. The worst outcome for American global leadership.

Trump’s Oval Office speech of March 11 was the worst action yet in a string of bad actions.

Here are the things the president did not do in that speech.

He offered no guidance or policy on how to prevent the spread of the disease inside the United States. Should your town cancel its St. Patrick’s Day parade? What about theatrical productions and sporting events? Classes at schools and colleges? Nothing.

He offered no explanation of what went wrong with the U.S. testing system, nor any assurance of when testing would become more widely available. His own previous promises of testing for anyone who needs it have been exploded as false. So what is true? Nothing.

• DAVID FRUMLayoffs are coming, probably on a very large scale, as travel collapses and people hunker down at home. Any word for those about to lose their jobs? Only the vaguest indication that something might be announced sometime soon.

It’s good to hear that there will be no co-pays on the tests nobody seems able to get. What about other health-care coverage? Any word on that? Nothing.

The financial markets have plunged into a 2008-style crash, auguring a recession, perhaps a severe one. The Trump administration has had almost two months to think about this crisis. It has trial-ballooned some ideas. But, of course, fiscal policy would require assent from the House of Representatives. Trump is still pouting at Speaker Nancy Pelosi. So—aside from some preposterously unconvincing happy talk about the economy—again: nothing.

There was one something in the speech: a ban on travel from Europe, but not the United Kingdom. It’s a classic Trump formulation. It seeks to protect America by erecting a wall against the world, without thinking very hard how or whether the wall can work. The disease is already here. The numbers only look low because of our prior failure to provide adequate testing. They will not look low even four days from now. And those infected with the virus can travel from other countries and on other routes. Trump himself has already met some.

The travel ban is an act of panic. Financial futures began crashing even as Trump was talking, perhaps shocked by his lack of an economic plan, perhaps aghast at his latest attack on world trade. (The speech seemed to suggest an embargo on European-sourced cargo as well, but that looks more like a mental lapse of Trump’s than a real policy announcement. The ban on cargo was retracted by a post-speech tweet, although the ban remains in the posted transcript of the speech.) Among other things, the ban represents one more refutation by Trump of any idea of collective security against collective threats. While China offers medical assistance to Italy, he wants to sever ties to former friends—isolating America and abandoning the world.

This crisis is not of Trump’s making. What he is responsible for is his failure to respond promptly, and then his perverse and counterproductive choice of how to respond when action could be avoided no longer. Trump, in his speech, pleaded for an end to finger-pointing. It’s a strange thing for this president of all presidents to say. No American president, and precious few American politicians, have ever pointed so many fingers or hurled so much abuse as Donald Trump. What he means, of course, is: Don’t hold me to account for the things I did.

But he did do them, and he owns responsibility for those things. He cannot escape it, and he will not escape it.

More people will get sick because of his presidency than if somebody else were in charge. More people will suffer the financial hardship of sickness because of his presidency than if somebody else were in charge. The medical crisis will arrive faster and last longer than if somebody else were in charge. So, too, the economic crisis. More people will lose their jobs than if somebody else were in charge. More businesses will be pushed into bankruptcy than if somebody else were in charge. More savers will lose more savings than if somebody else were in charge. The damage to America’s global leadership will be greater than if somebody else were in charge.

There is always something malign in Trump’s incompetence. He has no care or concern for others; he cannot absorb the trouble and suffering of others as real. He monotones his way through words of love and compassion, but those words plainly have no content or meaning for him. The only thing that is real is his squalid vanity. This virus threatens to pierce that vanity, so he denied it as long as he could. What he refuses to acknowledge cannot be real, can it?

And even now that he has acknowledged the crisis, he still cannot act, because he does not know what to do. His only goal now is to shove blame onto others. Americans have to face the fact that in the grip of this pandemic, the Oval Office is for all practical purposes as empty as the glazed eyes of the man who spoke from that office tonight.

Yet we have some posters calling the address good or great lol

I thought it was good and it is the step (the travel ban) in the right direction.  Like I said, I think he finally gets that this is the real deal.  Trump definitely dropped the ball on the whole thing "But states are increasingly taking matters into their own hands, declaring states of emergency, canceling school and university classes, limiting the size of gatherings and ordering thousands of people with potential exposure to the virus into isolation."

Pathetic, South Korea is testing 10k citizens per day! Can you go and get tested today? 

Yes I believe so.  New Jersey and New York seem to be ahead of the curve on most things.  

No, you can't get tested today. They don't have any tests available unless you're acutely symptomatic. A local clinic in my city was able to order 14 tests (but see many more patients than that every day that probably should be tested now), but they still haven't received them and have no idea when they will. That's part of the problem. I agree that some states are as ahead of the curve as they can get. Washington State has been ground zero. We received almost no help from the Feds. When Pence was out here last week we were promised that there were a million tests ready, and Azar was throwing around a 4 million number. But it was completely bullshit. We are only able to test right now because we have the University of Washington Medical Center labs building out capacity to test. We could get maybe 100 - 200 tests / day through the state lab with CDC help. But the UW ramped up in just a few days to be able to test 1000/day, and more on the way. We also have the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation that is working on home test kits much like you can get for the flu. So yes, state and local government health agencies here are doing what the feds can't or won't. 

And that speech he gave wasn't good by any measure in my mind. Immediately after the speech there were clarification on top of clarification given. Trump mentioned the travel band and included trade. It turns out trade is not included in the travel ban. It turns out that US citizens are exempt from the travel ban. It turns out legal permanent residents and immediate family members are exempt. He said that costs would be waived for people being treated for COVID-19. After the fact the insurance sector said that costs for testing would be waived, not for treatment. He bungled up just about every fact and every policy he put forward. He really is a fucking moron.

It's ridiculous. The problem with this admin is that they've always tried to throw everything back at states and leaned on states rights. In doing so they stripped down federal agencies and have taken a hands off approach to basically remove themselves from being accountable, or mostly to blame, if something doesn't go well. This pandemic has made it clear what happens if this country doesn't receive a unified response and guidance that all states can follow. Instead they each keep trying to figure it out so we continue to see a domino effect where sports leagues and musicians (props to PJ!) seem to be leading the way on what to do.

Exactly right. And good call on PJ. I praised the decision when they made it, even though there was a bunch of backlash on these boards. These guys were living at ground zero and knew what was coming for the rest of the country. And we are only just now getting started with this thing. It isn't about to die off. It is about to ramp up. We're looking at the proverbial hockey stick inflection point. We don't even know how bad it is right now because we can't test! 

I admittedly was one of the ones that thought it was an overreaction. I now fully admit i was incorrect, and they made the right call. 

The Juggler said:

Why was the Trump Quarantine thread closed? Was there something I missed?

josevolution said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Why was the Trump Quarantine thread closed? Was there something I missed?

I think it was construed by the mods as hoping Trump gets the virus...which I already think he has 

Can you be that close to people who test positive and not get it? Shaking hands with Collins, sitting next to Brazilian President 

The Juggler said:

josevolution said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Why was the Trump Quarantine thread closed? Was there something I missed?

I think it was construed by the mods as hoping Trump gets the virus...which I already think he has 

Can you be that close to people who test positive and not get it? Shaking hands with Collins, sitting next to Brazilian President 

If you are young and healthy, I would say yes. If you are obese and old, odds are probably not in his favor. 

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

josevolution said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Why was the Trump Quarantine thread closed? Was there something I missed?

I think it was construed by the mods as hoping Trump gets the virus...which I already think he has 

Can you be that close to people who test positive and not get it? Shaking hands with Collins, sitting next to Brazilian President 

If you are young and healthy, I would say yes. If you are obese and old, odds are probably not in his favor. 

I thought you could catch it just as likely as an older person, but an older person would have much more difficulty fighting it. 

Maybe you're right. I am not a doctor!

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

josevolution said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Why was the Trump Quarantine thread closed? Was there something I missed?

I think it was construed by the mods as hoping Trump gets the virus...which I already think he has 

Can you be that close to people who test positive and not get it? Shaking hands with Collins, sitting next to Brazilian President 

If you are young and healthy, I would say yes. If you are obese and old, odds are probably not in his favor. 

I thought you could catch it just as likely as an older person, but an older person would have much more difficulty fighting it. 

Maybe you're right. I am not a doctor!

But maybe I’m wrong cause I’m not a doctor either! That’s the problem. No one really knows what to do right now. Trump’s address last night left me with more questions than answers. 

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

josevolution said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Why was the Trump Quarantine thread closed? Was there something I missed?

I think it was construed by the mods as hoping Trump gets the virus...which I already think he has 

Can you be that close to people who test positive and not get it? Shaking hands with Collins, sitting next to Brazilian President 

If you are young and healthy, I would say yes. If you are obese and old, odds are probably not in his favor. 

I thought you could catch it just as likely as an older person, but an older person would have much more difficulty fighting it. 

Maybe you're right. I am not a doctor!

But maybe I’m wrong cause I’m not a doctor either! That’s the problem. No one really knows what to do right now. Trump’s address last night left me with more questions than answers. 

I think the world, minus his 25% base agrees with you there. 

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

josevolution said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Why was the Trump Quarantine thread closed? Was there something I missed?

I think it was construed by the mods as hoping Trump gets the virus...which I already think he has 

Can you be that close to people who test positive and not get it? Shaking hands with Collins, sitting next to Brazilian President 

If you are young and healthy, I would say yes. If you are obese and old, odds are probably not in his favor. 

I thought you could catch it just as likely as an older person, but an older person would have much more difficulty fighting it. 

Maybe you're right. I am not a doctor!

But maybe I’m wrong cause I’m not a doctor either! That’s the problem. No one really knows what to do right now. Trump’s address last night left me with more questions than answers. 

I think the world, minus his 25% base agrees with you there. 

I think even a lot of them have to be concerned. I know they excel at decompartmentizing, but when the problem hits home, even some of them might open their eyes. 

My cousin's wife is a brainwashed deplorable who was posting nonsense on Facebook like "OMG!! We don't close schools because of the flu! What is this shit?" Suddenly.....right when it was announced that her dear leader was giving an address from the Oval Office last night, she deleted all those nonsense posts. 

Also, she's a fucking nurse.