The Democratic Presidential Debates

Ledbetterman10 · March 2020

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

I think that’s the problem: whittling 20 candidates down to Biden. Also, I think it’s Obama himself that the party looks back on fondly. The VP could’ve been anyone. Biden’s fortunate it was him.

mrussel1 · March 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

I think that’s the problem: whittling 20 candidates down to Biden. Also, I think it’s Obama himself that the party looks back on fondly. The VP could’ve been anyone. Biden’s fortunate it was him.

Anyone could have captured the imagination like Obama did, but none of them did. And you could argue that Biden on the ticket in 08 won over some independents, moderates, etc. Obama was no sure thing in 08 by any means.
I think you underestimate the fondness that many of us lifelong Democrats have for Joe Biden. It didn't take much for the party to coalesce behind him, including all the Senators that were his opponents. That's no coincidence. I was all in on Biden to start the campaign, drifted away to Pete, but I was happy when the shit hit the fan last week. I walked into the booth without a shred of uncertainty.

CM189191 · March 2020

static111 said:

A huge problem to me is that this election is all about beating Trump. I agree he needs to be voted out but if all the DNC can muster up is let’s vote Trump out I don’t see it as being very successful. The way to win is to have something or someone that inspires people to take part which the establishment dishrags just don’t do. Trump got elected because like it or not he inspired the Republicans to vote for something.

BSAB?

clip clop

enjoy your horseshoes!

nicknyr15 · March 2020

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

A huge problem to me is that this election is all about beating Trump. I agree he needs to be voted out but if all the DNC can muster up is let’s vote Trump out I don’t see it as being very successful. The way to win is to have something or someone that inspires people to take part which the establishment dishrags just don’t do. Trump got elected because like it or not he inspired the Republicans to vote for something.

BSAB?

clip clop

enjoy your horseshoes!

Useful

Ledbetterman10 · March 2020

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

I think that’s the problem: whittling 20 candidates down to Biden. Also, I think it’s Obama himself that the party looks back on fondly. The VP could’ve been anyone. Biden’s fortunate it was him.

Anyone could have captured the imagination like Obama did, but none of them did. And you could argue that Biden on the ticket in 08 won over some independents, moderates, etc. Obama was no sure thing in 08 by any means.
I think you underestimate the fondness that many of us lifelong Democrats have for Joe Biden. It didn't take much for the party to coalesce behind him, including all the Senators that were his opponents. That's no coincidence. I was all in on Biden to start the campaign, drifted away to Pete, but I was happy when the shit hit the fan last week. I walked into the booth without a shred of uncertainty.

No I believe there’s fondness of Biden. I like him too. I just think he’ll be the last Dem standing in the primary based off of process of elimination, rather than actual excitement for him or his candidacy. Like Dole or Kerry before him.

The Juggler · March 2020

More from the Q poll today. Another difference between him and Hillary is people like him. HRC's unfavorable was 54%. Joe's is 40%. ---This point CANNOT be stressed enough. HRC had decades built in of people hating her. Joe has generally been likeable forever.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3657

THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

In head to head matchups with President Trump among registered voters, Biden gets support from more than half of registered voters against the incumbent president, while Sanders does not. Biden leads Trump 52 - 41 percent, and Sanders leads Trump 49 - 42 percent.

Looking at favorabilities among registered voters, Biden is by far the most favorably viewed. Biden is viewed favorably by 45 percent and unfavorably by 40 percent, while Sanders gets a negative 40 - 46 percent favorability rating. Trump is the least popular of the three candidates with a negative 39 - 58 percent favorability rating.

Biden and Sanders also do better than Trump when it comes to candidate traits. While 62 percent say Sanders is honest and 51 percent say Biden is honest, only 33 percent say Trump is honest. Biden has good leadership skills say 52 percent of voters, while 45 percent say Sanders has good leadership skills and 42 percent say Trump has good leadership skills. On empathy, 64 percent say Sanders cares about average Americans, while 59 percent say Biden cares about average Americans, and 43 percent say Trump cares about average Americans.

Both Biden and Sanders beat Trump on the question of who would do a better job handling a crisis. Biden beats Trump 56 - 40 percent on this question, while Sanders tops Trump 50 - 44 percent.

"Perhaps most troubling for the Trump camp in these numbers is the comparative assessment of which candidate can handle a crisis: it is Biden hands down. Couple that with an approval rating frozen in the low forties and comparatively terrible numbers on leadership, honesty, and empathy for fellow Americans, and team Trump has a formidable fight ahead," Malloy added.

Ledbetterman10 · March 2020

The Juggler said:

More from the Q poll today. Another difference between him and Hillary is people like him. HRC's unfavorable was 54%. Joe's is 40%. ---This point CANNOT be stressed enough. HRC had decades built in of people hating her. Joe has generally been likeable forever.

This is undoubtedly the biggest difference the two of them. And it outweigh his gaffes and overall decline. Hillary’s pretty sharp, but that doesn’t go as far as people liking you.

static111 · March 2020

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

A huge problem to me is that this election is all about beating Trump. I agree he needs to be voted out but if all the DNC can muster up is let’s vote Trump out I don’t see it as being very successful. The way to win is to have something or someone that inspires people to take part which the establishment dishrags just don’t do. Trump got elected because like it or not he inspired the Republicans to vote for something.

BSAB?

clip clop

enjoy your horseshoes!

Wut?

static111 · March 2020

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

This is my main concern about Joe. Is he going to excite and galvanize support out side of registered Democrats. I don’t see him garnering the outside support of republicans willing to hold their nose and vote Trump out, or hard core Sanders or bust types, I don’t see him getting independent swing voters to the polls either. I hope I am wrong, but I really think that the Dems are kidding themselves that Biden is the candidate to beat Trump. I’m by no means sure Bernie could be that candidate either, but he does manage to energize people which is something I just don’t see Biden doing.

The Juggler · March 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

More from the Q poll today. Another difference between him and Hillary is people like him. HRC's unfavorable was 54%. Joe's is 40%. ---This point CANNOT be stressed enough. HRC had decades built in of people hating her. Joe has generally been likeable forever.

This is undoubtedly the biggest difference the two of them. And it outweigh his gaffes and overall decline. Hillary’s pretty sharp, but that doesn’t go as far as people liking you.

Agreed

The Juggler · March 2020

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

This is my main concern about Joe. Is he going to excite and galvanize support out side of registered Democrats. I don’t see him garnering the outside support of republicans willing to hold their nose and vote Trump out, or hard core Sanders or bust types, I don’t see him getting independent swing voters to the polls either. I hope I am wrong, but I really think that the Dems are kidding themselves that Biden is the candidate to beat Trump. I’m by no means sure Bernie could be that candidate either, but he does manage to energize people which is something I just don’t see Biden doing.

Absolutely he will get some moderate republicans to vote for him. He will also expand on the black vote that HRC lost.

It's the Bernie voters we need to be concerned with.

static111 · March 2020

The Juggler said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

This is my main concern about Joe. Is he going to excite and galvanize support out side of registered Democrats. I don’t see him garnering the outside support of republicans willing to hold their nose and vote Trump out, or hard core Sanders or bust types, I don’t see him getting independent swing voters to the polls either. I hope I am wrong, but I really think that the Dems are kidding themselves that Biden is the candidate to beat Trump. I’m by no means sure Bernie could be that candidate either, but he does manage to energize people which is something I just don’t see Biden doing.

Absolutely he will get some moderate republicans to vote for him. He will also expand on the black vote that HRC lost.

It's the Bernie voters we need to be concerned with.

I respectfully disagree and think that this is just a registered Democrats wet dream. Like I said before I hope I’m wrong. I’m a Bernie supporter but I have already made my decision to vote for the establishment candidate if that’s all there is. No one needs 4 more years of Trump.

mrussel1 · March 2020

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

This is my main concern about Joe. Is he going to excite and galvanize support out side of registered Democrats. I don’t see him garnering the outside support of republicans willing to hold their nose and vote Trump out, or hard core Sanders or bust types, I don’t see him getting independent swing voters to the polls either. I hope I am wrong, but I really think that the Dems are kidding themselves that Biden is the candidate to beat Trump. I’m by no means sure Bernie could be that candidate either, but he does manage to energize people which is something I just don’t see Biden doing.

I don't know how you don't see him getting independent or classically republican voters. That's precisely what he is more likely to get than Sanders. And Bernie's "energy" is a facade, driven by online traffic. If we learned anything last week, there was no revolution. The turnout by Sanders supporters simply does not support the hypothesis. Turnout surged in states were Biden won decisively. Biden does better with women, middle age voters and older voters. These are the people that vote reliably.

pjl44 · March 2020

static111 said:

The Juggler said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

This is my main concern about Joe. Is he going to excite and galvanize support out side of registered Democrats. I don’t see him garnering the outside support of republicans willing to hold their nose and vote Trump out, or hard core Sanders or bust types, I don’t see him getting independent swing voters to the polls either. I hope I am wrong, but I really think that the Dems are kidding themselves that Biden is the candidate to beat Trump. I’m by no means sure Bernie could be that candidate either, but he does manage to energize people which is something I just don’t see Biden doing.

Absolutely he will get some moderate republicans to vote for him. He will also expand on the black vote that HRC lost.

It's the Bernie voters we need to be concerned with.

I respectfully disagree and think that this is just a registered Democrats wet dream. Like I said before I hope I’m wrong. I’m a Bernie supporter but I have already made my decision to vote for the establishment candidate if that’s all there is. No one needs 4 more years of Trump.

What if Bernie wound up running 3rd party? As the Green nominee, for instance.

JimmyV · March 2020

You guys are really going to die on the Republicans will save us hill? When has that ever worked? Look at Romney's 2012 numbers and then at Trump's 2016 numbers. Fox News and the Senate will wage war on Biden for 8 months. Scorched Earth, smear after smear after smear, and after awhile things will start to stick. Republicans will find a reason to vote for the Republican candidate in 2020. Depending on them to defect in significant numbers is dangerous.

mrussel1 · March 2020

JimmyV said:

You guys are really going to die on the Republicans will save us hill? When has that ever worked? Look at Romney's 2012 numbers and then at Trump's 2016 numbers. Fox News and the Senate will wage war on Biden for 8 months. Scorched Earth, smear after smear after smear, and after awhile things will start to stick. Republicans will find a reason to vote for the Republican candidate in 2020. Depending on them to defect in significant numbers is dangerous.

No, but the poster said Biden can't draw them in. Well I'd argue if they are available to be drawn in, he's the one to do it, not Sanders. Likewise, I'm certainly not dying on the hill for college students and the youth to show and vote. They can't even show up to the primary and we have real data to support that conclusion.

The Juggler · March 2020

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

You guys are really going to die on the Republicans will save us hill? When has that ever worked? Look at Romney's 2012 numbers and then at Trump's 2016 numbers. Fox News and the Senate will wage war on Biden for 8 months. Scorched Earth, smear after smear after smear, and after awhile things will start to stick. Republicans will find a reason to vote for the Republican candidate in 2020. Depending on them to defect in significant numbers is dangerous.

No, but the poster said Biden can't draw them in. Well I'd argue if they are available to be drawn in, he's the one to do it, not Sanders. Likewise, I'm certainly not dying on the hill for college students and the youth to show and vote. They can't even show up to the primary and we have real data to support that conclusion.

....and he's more likely to gain the black voters that hrc lost in 2016 too...

CM189191 · March 2020

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

The Juggler said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

2020 and Creepy Joe is the best we can do....sad

In 2012 I looked at Mitt Romney as "the best the GOP could do." I envisioned that from there-on-out, the Dems would be consistently running young, charismatic candidates for President, and the GOP would be doomed with the likes of Romney, Jeb, etc....just old party-loyalists that stuck around long enough to rise to the top.

Well that sure flipped. While Trump certainly isn't young, he's charismatic, not a party-loyalist, and yet the GOP loves him. The Dems on the other hand? Hillary and Biden. Hillary was fine (no charisma, but a reasonable-enough candidate for president). Biden WAS fine if he ran in 2016, but I think his time has passed.

But Biden fits my "old party-loyalist that stuck around long enough to rise to the top" criteria. Just as Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, and Bob Dole did. I'm sure you remember how all of those guys did in their general elections....

I know Obamas don't grow on trees, but it's pretty concerning (if you're a democrat) how little they've built up potential candiates both during Obama's presidency, and over the past four years.

💯 agreement on this

There were 20 candidates. It wasn't a 'lesser of two evils' choice. It's not like Biden swept Tuesday by overloading the media with ads either. He spent a fraction of what Sanders spent, yet people came out in droves for Biden. What we're seeing is that for majority of voters in the Democratic party, they just aren't as dissatisfied with the old guard as the Republicans were. In fact, the vast majority of the party look fondly upon the Obama/Biden administration. The same could not be said about the Bush admin.

This is my main concern about Joe. Is he going to excite and galvanize support out side of registered Democrats. I don’t see him garnering the outside support of republicans willing to hold their nose and vote Trump out, or hard core Sanders or bust types, I don’t see him getting independent swing voters to the polls either. I hope I am wrong, but I really think that the Dems are kidding themselves that Biden is the candidate to beat Trump. I’m by no means sure Bernie could be that candidate either, but he does manage to energize people which is something I just don’t see Biden doing.

Absolutely he will get some moderate republicans to vote for him. He will also expand on the black vote that HRC lost.

It's the Bernie voters we need to be concerned with.

I respectfully disagree and think that this is just a registered Democrats wet dream. Like I said before I hope I’m wrong. I’m a Bernie supporter but I have already made my decision to vote for the establishment candidate if that’s all there is. No one needs 4 more years of Trump.

What if Bernie wound up running 3rd party? As the Green nominee, for instance.

then it would further prove Bernie is as dumb and useless as I think he is

JimmyV · March 2020

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

You guys are really going to die on the Republicans will save us hill? When has that ever worked? Look at Romney's 2012 numbers and then at Trump's 2016 numbers. Fox News and the Senate will wage war on Biden for 8 months. Scorched Earth, smear after smear after smear, and after awhile things will start to stick. Republicans will find a reason to vote for the Republican candidate in 2020. Depending on them to defect in significant numbers is dangerous.

No, but the poster said Biden can't draw them in. Well I'd argue if they are available to be drawn in, he's the one to do it, not Sanders. Likewise, I'm certainly not dying on the hill for college students and the youth to show and vote. They can't even show up to the primary and we have real data to support that conclusion.

....and he's more likely to gain the black voters that hrc lost in 2016 too...

Her success in the 2016 southern primaries was attributed largely to the African American communities, was it not? Much like Biden's in South Carolina? I get that he does not have her negatives, but this increasingly feels like the same mistake is being made over again.

mrussel1 · March 2020

JimmyV said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

JimmyV said:

You guys are really going to die on the Republicans will save us hill? When has that ever worked? Look at Romney's 2012 numbers and then at Trump's 2016 numbers. Fox News and the Senate will wage war on Biden for 8 months. Scorched Earth, smear after smear after smear, and after awhile things will start to stick. Republicans will find a reason to vote for the Republican candidate in 2020. Depending on them to defect in significant numbers is dangerous.

No, but the poster said Biden can't draw them in. Well I'd argue if they are available to be drawn in, he's the one to do it, not Sanders. Likewise, I'm certainly not dying on the hill for college students and the youth to show and vote. They can't even show up to the primary and we have real data to support that conclusion.

....and he's more likely to gain the black voters that hrc lost in 2016 too...

Her success in the 2016 southern primaries was attributed largely to the African American communities, was it not? Much like Biden's in South Carolina? I get that he does not have her negatives, but this increasingly feels like the same mistake is being made over again.

Look at the map. Bernie is green.

And interestingly, Biden won MN, ME and MA which Bernie won last time. And Sanders won California. The only consistent theme thus far is Sanders weakness with black votes.

The Democratic Presidential Debates

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