The Democratic Presidential Debates

mrussel1 said:

The only reason @cincybearcat doesn't like Trump (president #45) is it reminds him of the only two time Heisman winner.  

As a one of the world's foremost appreciator of Michael Jordan's baseball career, I'm not big on Trump highjacking the number 45. 

Do you think Trump knows that despite being the 45th president, he's actually the 44th person to be president? Everyone learns about Grover Cleveland's non-consecutive terms in like 7th grade. You think Trump knows it? I doubt it. 

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

The only reason @cincybearcat doesn't like Trump (president #45) is it reminds him of the only two time Heisman winner.  

As a one of the world's foremost appreciator of Michael Jordan's baseball career, I'm not big on Trump highjacking the number 45. 

Do you think Trump knows that despite being the 45th president, he's actually the 44th person to be president? Everyone learns about Grover Cleveland's non-consecutive terms in like 7th grade. You think Trump knows it? I doubt it. 

No, to your second question.  
To the first statement, are you sure you're not the ONLY appreciator?

There's not many of us. That's for sure. 

https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1233489473947754496?s=20

Spiritual_Chaos said:

You can’t even have a nice friday night in front of the TV without being exposed to the god damn Phony Pete fans. EVENING RUINED

Just curious- which Pete fans do you see as phony?  Or do you see them as generally all being phony?  Honestly curious- I'd never heard that one before. 

pjl44 said:

CM189191 said:

Big questions here about who is funding Bernie's campaign.  This stinks to high heaven.

https://twitter.com/lizburgh/status/1227093037697896448?s=19

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1227093037697896448.html

Khawaja claims the Saudis and the Emiratis illegally paid tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars to the Trump campaign in 2016. He says that to keep it secret, they disguised the money as small donations from Americans, using stolen identities and ‘virtual credit cards’ or gift cards — donations of less than $200 do not have to be reported to the Federal Election Commission and made public. He claims the Saudis and the Emiratis were able to make thousands of such small donations at a time using the latest payment processing technology. 

https://spectator.us/whistleblower-andy-khawaja-micropayments/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

What's the headline here? That he got 50k in fishy donations in 2016?

Firstly, agreed on scope. 50K of funds injection would hardly be worth any candidate's time/effort/risk to pursue. 

Next, we should recognize that the stink may be real, but may or may not be the candidates themselves. Bear in mind that Russia's strategy is to play both sides of the field to stoke the flames of division (even if having a preference towards one side winning and placing outsized efforts to make that happen), and to generally create distrust and confusion (especially to weaken American institutions). People who study Russia may be able to speak more to this, but my understanding is that this is a very typical Soviet-era propaganda approach.

I feel the most appropriate thing to do when we know almost definitively that narratives are being skewed intentionally and that foreign influencers are playing dirty, is to remember to keep vigilant and skeptical, and predominantly focus on whether you believe in their vision for the future and in their ability to realize some portion of it.

pjl44 said:

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

CM189191 said:

Big questions here about who is funding Bernie's campaign.  This stinks to high heaven.

https://twitter.com/lizburgh/status/1227093037697896448?s=19

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1227093037697896448.html

Khawaja claims the Saudis and the Emiratis illegally paid tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars to the Trump campaign in 2016. He says that to keep it secret, they disguised the money as small donations from Americans, using stolen identities and ‘virtual credit cards’ or gift cards — donations of less than $200 do not have to be reported to the Federal Election Commission and made public. He claims the Saudis and the Emiratis were able to make thousands of such small donations at a time using the latest payment processing technology. 

https://spectator.us/whistleblower-andy-khawaja-micropayments/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

What's the headline here? That he got 50k in fishy donations in 2016?

Firstly, agreed on scope. 50K of funds injection would hardly be worth any candidate's time/effort/risk to pursue. 

Next, we should recognize that the stink may be real, but may or may not be the candidates themselves. Bear in mind that Russia's strategy is to play both sides of the field to stoke the flames of division (even if having a preference towards one side winning and placing outsized efforts to make that happen), and to generally create distrust and confusion (especially to weaken American institutions). People who study Russia may be able to speak more to this, but my understanding is that this is a very typical Soviet-era propaganda approach.

I feel the most appropriate thing to do when we know almost definitively that narratives are being skewed intentionally and that foreign influencers are playing dirty, is to remember to keep vigilant and skeptical, and predominantly focus on whether you believe in their vision for the future and in their ability to realize some portion of it.

The thing that kills me most in all this is how much it requires the reader to connect dots. Because the hard evidence shows yeah, they're certainly making efforts, but the only real results are the ability to drive people crazy. People aren't being influenced by Facebook memes, they're allowing themselves to get hysterical over conspiracy theories. Interestingly, the person in question here is pointing to the Saudis and not the Russkies.

On the actors specifically - fair point. Also as far as that goes, who's to say how many foreign nations have been watching Trump invite foreign interference instead of criticize it?

On how influential the disinformation campaigns are, I don't feel you or I are necessarily the target audience. We have skepticism, basic logic comprehension, the ability to communicate with depth that extends beyond 140 characters at a time, etc. Sadly, I feel that these disinformation campaigns are targeting those without those abilities, and at the very least I don't feel comfortable surmising one way or another on how effective they are at swaying people. What I would say, is that these have been extremely effective campaigns in terms of the goal of creating distrust in institutions at large.

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

CM189191 said:

Big questions here about who is funding Bernie's campaign.  This stinks to high heaven.

https://twitter.com/lizburgh/status/1227093037697896448?s=19

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1227093037697896448.html

Khawaja claims the Saudis and the Emiratis illegally paid tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars to the Trump campaign in 2016. He says that to keep it secret, they disguised the money as small donations from Americans, using stolen identities and ‘virtual credit cards’ or gift cards — donations of less than $200 do not have to be reported to the Federal Election Commission and made public. He claims the Saudis and the Emiratis were able to make thousands of such small donations at a time using the latest payment processing technology. 

https://spectator.us/whistleblower-andy-khawaja-micropayments/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

What's the headline here? That he got 50k in fishy donations in 2016?

Firstly, agreed on scope. 50K of funds injection would hardly be worth any candidate's time/effort/risk to pursue. 

Next, we should recognize that the stink may be real, but may or may not be the candidates themselves. Bear in mind that Russia's strategy is to play both sides of the field to stoke the flames of division (even if having a preference towards one side winning and placing outsized efforts to make that happen), and to generally create distrust and confusion (especially to weaken American institutions). People who study Russia may be able to speak more to this, but my understanding is that this is a very typical Soviet-era propaganda approach.

I feel the most appropriate thing to do when we know almost definitively that narratives are being skewed intentionally and that foreign influencers are playing dirty, is to remember to keep vigilant and skeptical, and predominantly focus on whether you believe in their vision for the future and in their ability to realize some portion of it.

The thing that kills me most in all this is how much it requires the reader to connect dots. Because the hard evidence shows yeah, they're certainly making efforts, but the only real results are the ability to drive people crazy. People aren't being influenced by Facebook memes, they're allowing themselves to get hysterical over conspiracy theories. Interestingly, the person in question here is pointing to the Saudis and not the Russkies.

On the actors specifically - fair point. Also as far as that goes, who's to say how many foreign nations have been watching Trump invite foreign interference instead of criticize it?

On how influential the disinformation campaigns are, I don't feel you or I are necessarily the target audience. We have skepticism, basic logic comprehension, the ability to communicate with depth that extends beyond 140 characters at a time, etc. Sadly, I feel that these disinformation campaigns are targeting those without those abilities, and at the very least I don't feel comfortable surmising one way or another on how effective they are at swaying people. What I would say, is that these have been extremely effective campaigns in terms of the goal of creating distrust in institutions at large.

If someone can swing an election with 45k in Facebook ad buys, those are the most valuable political consultants in the world and your preferred candidate should hire them immediately