@Vedd Hedd first time I looked at the porch today.
PJ created the singles for paying fan club members (they even apologized when the Last Kiss stuff happened) and they said that they would always be fan-exclusive. Now they are charging money for them, no longer fan-exclusive. It may not seem like a big deal, and it's not, really, but what was once exclusive to us is now being sold for profit. I was just using that as an example of how they seem to care less and less about us each passing year. I'm really not all that bent out of shape about it, just one of many examples I could have used.
As for the new album, maybe I'm too old to appreciate new music? I'm sure at least half of it will be good, but how many classic rock concerts do you go to where you get excited when the band says, "and here's one from our new album"? Or maybe it's because I haven't cared for the last two songs? I dunno, but to the people that are excited for new music, then more power to them! Doesn't mean I can't share my opinion though. I'm still unsure what the two have to do with each other.
These missing singles are dividing the PJ community!!! LOL
And to relate to @HughFreakingDillon last post. DMB released a vinyl box set for their 25th anniversary. I think it was $200 but they swore that it was the only way it would be released. A few months later, $50 FLAC files were available. I was just a little bit pissed.
fair enough, no worries. I was just trying to understand it. I am one of those people that you talk about though. I would much rather hear new music than hear greatest hits. Going on 50th PJ show, I could handle a full on Gigaton album play, without even knowing what is on it. I mean, yeah, EF is great and all, but I think I have heard it live 48 times? lol.
I was happy when they released the songs digitally, though. I have the singles, but never listen to them on vinyl, because I hate changing my belt from 33 to 45. And like someone said, its usually 3 minutes you have to sit there. I wish i had a jukebox for those. That would be cool.
A PEARL JAM JUKEBOX. YES YES YES
I actually have a jukebox full of PJ. Singles purchased throughout the years and Xmas singles that run @45rpm. I've even had big holes punched into the ones who only had a small hole. Pretty cool to have some PJ playing in the juke!
that's badass! would love to see a pic of that! always wanted to have a jukebox!
Here's a few quick snaps
mad wicked awesome!
st. pete '94
west palm beach '98
tampa '00
tampa '03
tampa '08
brooklyn '13
austin '14
austin '14
tampa '16
and with club members sniffing around Attorneys General it is likely 10c has been advised not to say anything further on the issue.
Yeah right.
?
I doubt the "likely". Doubt it 100%.
Curious why you doubt this. In my company, an AG reaching out on an issue would almost certainly initiate a Legal Hold. In the Legal Hold process we ensure we preserve all documentation (including emails, social media posts, etc.) that could be related to the issue at hand. The other thing we do is STFU. We don’t want to create new discoverable documents that could be used against us.
I’ve assumed for some time that this is the reason for the lack of updates.
and with club members sniffing around Attorneys General it is likely 10c has been advised not to say anything further on the issue.
Yeah right.
?
I doubt the "likely". Doubt it 100%.
Curious why you doubt this. In my company, an AG reaching out on an issue would almost certainly initiate a Legal Hold. In the Legal Hold process we ensure we preserve all documentation (including emails, social media posts, etc.) that could be related to the issue at hand. The other thing we do is STFU. We don’t want to create new discoverable documents that could be used against us.
I’ve assumed for some time that this is the reason for the lack of updates.
I think the distinction here is between "club members sniffing around Attorneys General" and "an AG reaching out on an issue".
and with club members sniffing around Attorneys General it is likely 10c has been advised not to say anything further on the issue.
Yeah right.
?
I doubt the "likely". Doubt it 100%.
Curious why you doubt this. In my company, an AG reaching out on an issue would almost certainly initiate a Legal Hold. In the Legal Hold process we ensure we preserve all documentation (including emails, social media posts, etc.) that could be related to the issue at hand. The other thing we do is STFU. We don’t want to create new discoverable documents that could be used against us.
I’ve assumed for some time that this is the reason for the lack of updates.
I think the distinction here is between "club members sniffing around Attorneys General" and "an AG reaching out on an issue".
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong.
I understand what you're saying now. It's unfortunate because all they need to do is communicate. I think the money we've already paid should at least be worth some communication. You're right. Tim was probably advised by lawyers to keep his mouth shut. By now I would hope that the band has gotten word about the frustration. I'm really surprised that no one has made any announcements. They are going to have to announce this early to get the word out that everyone needs to make sure their shipping information is current. Its going to be a logistical nightmare to try and sort all of this out. How sad that the last of the annual singles are being handled like this.
4. Please respect topic integrity by not derailing discussions from the
original poster’s intent (OP). You can begin a new topic of your own in
the appropriate forum.
4. Please respect topic integrity by not derailing discussions from the
original poster’s intent (OP). You can begin a new topic of your own in
the appropriate forum.
Posts about silly protests could not be MORE on topic.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
This thread is a gem and I dont really care either way. At this point they should just slap 2 b sides from the backspacer era on two vinyls and call it a day.
4. Please respect topic integrity by not derailing discussions from the
original poster’s intent (OP). You can begin a new topic of your own in
the appropriate forum.
Posts about silly protests could not be MORE on topic.
The thread is about the missing singles, not silly protests. Most of the posters are not protesting in any way. Simply looking for communication and accountability. Why are you opposed to accountability? Why are you opposed to calling for obligations to be met? I understand the singles don't interest you, and you can always skip a thread that doesn't interest you. You join these threads to belittle and derail. In this case, you are absolutely violating this particular forum guideline. Don't worry, I won't report you. But at least be intellectually honest about your participation in this thread. You're trolling.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
4. Please respect topic integrity by not derailing discussions from the
original poster’s intent (OP). You can begin a new topic of your own in
the appropriate forum.
Posts about silly protests could not be MORE on topic.
The thread is about the missing singles, not silly protests. Most of the posters are not protesting in any way. Simply looking for communication and accountability. Why are you opposed to accountability? Why are you opposed to calling for obligations to be met? I understand the singles don't interest you, and you can always skip a thread that doesn't interest you. You join these threads to belittle and derail. In this case, you are absolutely violating this particular forum guideline. Don't worry, I won't report you. But at least be intellectually honest about your participation in this thread. You're trolling.
Gimme a break with the derailing nonsense. Anyone posting about getting a lawyer, contacting the AG, or making a protest at a concert over a vinyl record has done more to derail this thread than any post about horsey sauce could ever do.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
4. Please respect topic integrity by not derailing discussions from the
original poster’s intent (OP). You can begin a new topic of your own in
the appropriate forum.
Posts about silly protests could not be MORE on topic.
The thread is about the missing singles, not silly protests. Most of the posters are not protesting in any way. Simply looking for communication and accountability. Why are you opposed to accountability? Why are you opposed to calling for obligations to be met? I understand the singles don't interest you, and you can always skip a thread that doesn't interest you. You join these threads to belittle and derail. In this case, you are absolutely violating this particular forum guideline. Don't worry, I won't report you. But at least be intellectually honest about your participation in this thread. You're trolling.
Gimme a break with the derailing nonsense. Anyone posting about getting a lawyer, contacting the AG, or making a protest at a concert over a vinyl record has done more to derail this thread than any post about horsey sauce could ever do.
You just moved the goalpost. I was specifically responding to your statement that silly protests could not be more on topic. That is obviously incorrect. And for the record, I am a horsey sauce fan (and have never talked about getting a lawyer, contacting the AG, or staging a protest at a show).
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong.
I haven’t been following this insane thread and don’t know the details. But I suspect that none of the Ten Club, the band, their advisors, some guy named Tim Bierman, any state AG or anyone affiliated with any state AG is paying this complaint any mind whatsoever. The purpose of any communications among any of the foregoing is not to crack the case of the missing singles (in the case of the AG) or to minimize or mitigate the material legal exposure presented by the fraudulently withheld singles (in the case of the band/club). It’s to get you to stop bothering everyone involved.
There’s been no communication because there’s nothing to communicate.
4. Please respect topic integrity by not derailing discussions from the
original poster’s intent (OP). You can begin a new topic of your own in
the appropriate forum.
Posts about silly protests could not be MORE on topic.
The thread is about the missing singles, not silly protests. Most of the posters are not protesting in any way. Simply looking for communication and accountability. Why are you opposed to accountability? Why are you opposed to calling for obligations to be met? I understand the singles don't interest you, and you can always skip a thread that doesn't interest you. You join these threads to belittle and derail. In this case, you are absolutely violating this particular forum guideline. Don't worry, I won't report you. But at least be intellectually honest about your participation in this thread. You're trolling.
Gimme a break with the derailing nonsense. Anyone posting about getting a lawyer, contacting the AG, or making a protest at a concert over a vinyl record has done more to derail this thread than any post about horsey sauce could ever do.
You just moved the goalpost. I was specifically responding to your statement that silly protests could not be more on topic. That is obviously incorrect. And for the record, I am a horsey sauce fan (and have never talked about getting a lawyer, contacting the AG, or staging a protest at a show).
Contacting the AG over this and trying to organize some type of concert demonstration is a silly protest. Therefore any of my posts are on topic.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong.
I haven’t been following this insane thread and don’t know the details. But I suspect that none of the Ten Club, the band, their advisors, some guy named Tim Bierman, any state AG or anyone affiliated with any state AG is paying this complaint any mind whatsoever. The purpose of any communications among any of the foregoing is not to crack the case of the missing singles (in the case of the AG) or to minimize or mitigate the material legal exposure presented by the fraudulently withheld singles (in the case of the band/club). It’s to get you to stop bothering everyone involved.
There’s been no communication because there’s nothing to communicate.
You've hit the heart of the matter, and identified precisely why there is bitching. Why, after years of negligence has there been no action on this, thus "nothing to communicate?" Some guy named Tim Bierman (he runs 10c among other things, so not just some guy) specifically responded to the WA AG that these were in the process of being produced (whatever the hell that means). In Sept or Oct in the newsletter we were told they were forthcoming. If they're forthcoming or in any sort of production process, then there actually is something to communicate. Give us an update. Have the specific tracks even been selected yet? Mastered for vinyl? Sent out for pressing? In the test pressing phase waiting for sign-off? Waiting for shipment to the warehouse for distribution? At the warehouse ready to distribute? Packaged up and on their way to everyone? There are plenty of steps in getting these singles out to us, and at this point they should simply let us know what stage of production they're actually in, and what definition of forthcoming they're using. To say there's nothing to communicate is disingenuous.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
The complaint to the AG's office was the only way to get an official response from the 10c and it worked.
Simply not true. Tim’s answer to the AG was the exact same answer people got from the ten club when they emailed and asked - that the singles would be mailed as soon as they were ready.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong.
I haven’t been following this insane thread and don’t know the details. But I suspect that none of the Ten Club, the band, their advisors, some guy named Tim Bierman, any state AG or anyone affiliated with any state AG is paying this complaint any mind whatsoever. The purpose of any communications among any of the foregoing is not to crack the case of the missing singles (in the case of the AG) or to minimize or mitigate the material legal exposure presented by the fraudulently withheld singles (in the case of the band/club). It’s to get you to stop bothering everyone involved.
There’s been no communication because there’s nothing to communicate.
You've hit the heart of the matter, and identified precisely why there is bitching. Why, after years of negligence has there been no action on this, thus "nothing to communicate?" Some guy named Tim Bierman (he runs 10c among other things, so not just some guy) specifically responded to the WA AG that these were in the process of being produced (whatever the hell that means). In Sept or Oct in the newsletter we were told they were forthcoming. If they're forthcoming or in any sort of production process, then there actually is something to communicate. Give us an update. Have the specific tracks even been selected yet? Mastered for vinyl? Sent out for pressing? In the test pressing phase waiting for sign-off? Waiting for shipment to the warehouse for distribution? At the warehouse ready to distribute? Packaged up and on their way to everyone? There are plenty of steps in getting these singles out to us, and at this point they should simply let us know what stage of production they're actually in, and what definition of forthcoming they're using. To say there's nothing to communicate is disingenuous.
No. Is that what you want to hear? I believe that’s the answer, and I also believe that the people who are claiming that all they want is “communication”, and that they would be satisfied with an official communication that said “we don’t want to just crap out a couple of random performances of Unthought Known so we don’t know what these are going to be yet much less when they’ll be out” are the ones who are being disingenuous.
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong.
I haven’t been following this insane thread and don’t know the details. But I suspect that none of the Ten Club, the band, their advisors, some guy named Tim Bierman, any state AG or anyone affiliated with any state AG is paying this complaint any mind whatsoever. The purpose of any communications among any of the foregoing is not to crack the case of the missing singles (in the case of the AG) or to minimize or mitigate the material legal exposure presented by the fraudulently withheld singles (in the case of the band/club). It’s to get you to stop bothering everyone involved.
There’s been no communication because there’s nothing to communicate.
It is clear that you haven't been following the thread and don't know the details of this issue.
The AG reached out twice. The second time 10c ignored them. The alternative is that Tim Bierman, on his own, decided to blow off the Attorney General of Washington State. I personally doubt that happened.
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
I hear you. I just suspect Tim was advised not to respond. But I could be wrong.
I haven’t been following this insane thread and don’t know the details. But I suspect that none of the Ten Club, the band, their advisors, some guy named Tim Bierman, any state AG or anyone affiliated with any state AG is paying this complaint any mind whatsoever. The purpose of any communications among any of the foregoing is not to crack the case of the missing singles (in the case of the AG) or to minimize or mitigate the material legal exposure presented by the fraudulently withheld singles (in the case of the band/club). It’s to get you to stop bothering everyone involved.
There’s been no communication because there’s nothing to communicate.
You've hit the heart of the matter, and identified precisely why there is bitching. Why, after years of negligence has there been no action on this, thus "nothing to communicate?" Some guy named Tim Bierman (he runs 10c among other things, so not just some guy) specifically responded to the WA AG that these were in the process of being produced (whatever the hell that means). In Sept or Oct in the newsletter we were told they were forthcoming. If they're forthcoming or in any sort of production process, then there actually is something to communicate. Give us an update. Have the specific tracks even been selected yet? Mastered for vinyl? Sent out for pressing? In the test pressing phase waiting for sign-off? Waiting for shipment to the warehouse for distribution? At the warehouse ready to distribute? Packaged up and on their way to everyone? There are plenty of steps in getting these singles out to us, and at this point they should simply let us know what stage of production they're actually in, and what definition of forthcoming they're using. To say there's nothing to communicate is disingenuous.
forthcoming like that new album can't deny me is on
st. pete '94
west palm beach '98
tampa '00
tampa '03
tampa '08
brooklyn '13
austin '14
austin '14
tampa '16
Comments
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
west palm beach '98
tampa '00
tampa '03
tampa '08
brooklyn '13
austin '14
austin '14
tampa '16
ed - clearwater '12
ed - clearwater '12
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Tim Bierman was the one that replied the first time. I have ZERO doubts that he was directly contacted again by the AG and Tim Bierman blew them off. In the reply email from Tim, it gives all of his contact information. When I contacted the AG the second time, I wasn't asking for them to get directly involved again. I only had a couple of questions. The AG's office took this and ran with it to try and get an official response but they didn't reply.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
west palm beach '98
tampa '00
tampa '03
tampa '08
brooklyn '13
austin '14
austin '14
tampa '16
ed - clearwater '12
ed - clearwater '12