The Democratic Candidates
Comments
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The Juggler said:Agreed.
Part of the problem is the way the DNC set these debates up to have a bunch of lesser tier candidates who have zero shots of winning going up against the ones who actually do. Fucking DeBlasio was just tossing grenades during his two debates. Fuck him. He sucks.
Everyone would have been much better served seen Biden go up against Sanders, Warrnen, Harris, Buttigegehappoiueggie, and maybe a couple others during his two debates.
The DNC is trying to give the lessers a chance to climb up in the polls. Next time there will be far fewer debaters.
Giving the lessers about 7 minutes total talking time during a long debate and never knowing when its their turn to speak makes it extremely
challenging to shine.0 -
OnWis97 said:I tend to agree with McGruff 1) there's no Obama in the mix and 2) it's amazing that there can't be one every cycle...it's amazing that Obama's practically a once-in-a-generation candidate.
As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy. I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did. You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.
But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.
I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump. Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.
Biden has never been attacked as a frontrunner from multiple leftists before this summer. He did better yesterday and will do better as the debate field shrinks.
Biden had an informal talk with the press today and he sounded excellent. That's a much better forum than having 19 debaters attack you over 2 nights.
I'm not sure we have seen any candidate encounter that challenge before (since DT was not perceived as a strong frontrunner when 10 Rs were debating last time).0 -
Lerxst1992 said:
Biden has never been attacked as a frontrunner from multiple leftists before this summer. He did better yesterday and will do better as the debate field shrinks.
Biden had an informal talk with the press today and he sounded excellent. That's a much better forum than having 19 debaters attack you over 2 nights.
I'm not sure we have seen any candidate encounter that challenge before (since DT was not perceived as a strong frontrunner when 10 Rs were debating last time).
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@mcgruff10 I’m liking the following: Biden, Warren, Buddha, Harris, and Castro. And not necessarily in that order or who I like or want to win. Just that from what I’ve seen thus far, I think they’re capable and all but Biden have a future, particularly Buddha, Castro and Harris.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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dignin said:I believe Warren and Sanders are talking to those people.
But I do agree, if you are a moderate, the shift in the Democratic party would be disappointing.
The shift in both parties. Republicans just started soonerhippiemom = goodness0 -
Lerxst1992 said:Yes. I think we have agreed on that in the past.
I was attempting to point out though I love Bernie (but want Biden to win), I blame him for not getting a decent explanation of MFA funding.
My concern is there's alot of passion coming from the Bernie Liz flank and they may be able to push MFA onto the platform. So it would help us if folks understand it's not necessarily more expensive if that were to happen.
At this point in time a Medicare option is the best plan for dems to propose
Warren is more convincing, but Im immune to her because every problem has the sane solution from the same pool of tax money.0 -
Hi! said:Im so sick of Harris lecturing and waving her finger in people’s faces. She doesn’t seem to be likable or friendly, more abrasive and rude. Definitely see the prosecutor side come out in these debates. Not sure if she wants to help me with affordable health care or throw me in jail.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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cincybearcat said:
The shift in both parties. Republicans just started sooner
So, its not the same.
Having kids die in cages and not stopping the gun-violence epidemic VS a green new deal and wanting citizens to actually live"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
mcgruff10 said:Deblasio is such a pos."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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mrussel1 said:My biggest concern is quality of care if private hospitals turn into government entities. We have government hospitals in this country and the care is terrible, wait times atrocious, etc. The VA is awful.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
mcgruff10 said:How much will my taxes go up? Where is the money coming from to pay for this?
So, first answer this question - what does that graph tell you?
And after that, I can answer your question. Because I don't really understand why your question even would be asked if you can read the graph.
So lets take it in the right order.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:Well, one side is shifting to "we should make a better society - look at how much better other countries are doing, we're been doing it wrong. oops" and the other side shifted to "we are awful, racist people and here: we give you Donald Trump"
So, its not the same.
Having kids die in cages and not stopping the gun-violence epidemic VS a green new deal and wanting citizens to actually live
Im simply saying each party is moving more towards their extremes. Each party moving away from the moderates in their party or the moderate independents. I’m not comparing policies.hippiemom = goodness0 -
cincybearcat said:When did it become about just posting “it’s not the same” and all the “false equivalencies” bullshit?
Im simply saying each party is moving more towards their extremes. Each party moving away from the moderates in their party or the moderate independents. I’m not comparing policies.
Maybe it's time to leave the "moderates" behind and whatever their reasons are for staying "moderates" if some change is actually to happen - for the american people and the world.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:With those two questions of yours... I must ask - could you read and understand the graph I posted?
So, first answer this question - what does that graph tell you?
And after that, I can answer your question. Because I don't really understand why your question even would be asked if you can read the graph.
So lets take it in the right order.
BTW, I don't think I need to state this, but please don't confuse my asking for you to post meaningful information with sources, with supporting one health care system over another.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:And give me the reason why this have to be a reality in the US, with other countries managing?
Once again, you are cherry-picking what you want, ignoring all constraints or uphill battles like they simply don't exist. You don't seem to realize that some of us are on your side, and not saying 'no', but saying 'not right now', and some (like me) would even prefer to say 'not right now but let's make a plan that coexists with the unique characteristics and needs of the USA and its citizens'.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
benjs said:The graph with a biased title, no division of "out of pocket" vs. insurance-covered, no normalization for population size beyond PPP, no segmentation into meaningful population cohorts, no consideration for commodity vs. high-demand drugs, no recognition of the subsidies which American drug-buyers support the R&D of global drugs, and the graph which somehow tries to distil healthcare results to a single number? That graph is meaningless in the state you posted it (if you truly are interested in taking it in the right order).
BTW, I don't think I need to state this, but please don't confuse my asking for you to post meaningful information with sources, with supporting one health care system over another.
But in the words of David Letterman
(haha - not saying you are Bill O'Reilly)
But let me ask you, now that you are not ignoring me and not defending but defending the US having DOUBLE the price of health care (haha) - name another country that can be compared to the US? Or are you saying that US is a unique snowflake of a country impossible to compare with others? So diverse. So big. 12 years old can marry. Healthcare prices must be double Etc.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
The goalposts have move far to the right. Obama was pretty central/moderate yet he was painted as a commie. Hillary was basically a 1950s republican.
The word socialism has been weaponized expertly and framed as communism. Any progressive idea like fixing the health care cost issue, affordable education, fair elections, accepting science, etc are now considered moving toward stalin and work camps
If the extreme left was present, we would be talking about a workers' revolution to take over the government as well as the means of production. Trying to adapt to the world as if its 2020 and not pretending its 1960 is not crazy-left.
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cincybearcat said:When did it become about just posting “it’s not the same” and all the “false equivalencies” bullshit?
Im simply saying each party is moving more towards their extremes. Each party moving away from the moderates in their party or the moderate independents. I’m not comparing policies.
Bear in mind that shifts towards extremes are pretty difficult to detect, because the best leading indicator we have for movement on the political spectrum is just voter volume (and I mean volume as in how loud/outspoken they are), and moderates are moderate - and their voices can be drowned out by the far-louder polar extremes. I think there's a shift to the left in the Democratic party going on, however I believe it could be less significant than it feels based on that fact.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
MayDay10 said:The goalposts have move far to the right. Obama was pretty central/moderate yet he was painted as a commie. Hillary was basically a 1950s republican.
The word socialism has been weaponized expertly and framed as communism. Any progressive idea like fixing the health care cost issue, affordable education, fair elections, accepting science, etc are now considered moving toward stalin and work camps
If the extreme left was present, we would be talking about a workers' revolution to take over the government as well as the means of production. Trying to adapt to the world as if its 2020 and not pretending its 1960 is not crazy-left."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:I don't know enough of that terminology (especially in English) to respond to whatever you are saying.
But in the words of David Letterman
But let me ask you, now that you are not ignoring me and not defending but defending the US having DOUBLE the price of health care (haha) - name another country that can be compared to the US? Or are you saying that US is a unique snowflake of a country impossible to compare with others? So diverse. So big. 12 years old can marry. Healthcare prices must be double Etc.
As for your 'now that you're not ignoring me' comment - I read almost all of your posts. I respond to the ones that I think are worth responding to (really no different to anyone else on here). Only difference is now I don't have to scroll through as many silly one-liners or gifs about why Bernie Sanders is the messiah and the rest of politicians are Satan reincarnated.
Feel free to elaborate where you still have confusion. I hope I've shown you already that at least 80% of what I said is not crap, just stuff you'd like to ignore.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10
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