The Democratic Candidates

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

So I was able to watch the last 1+ hours. So my opinion based only on that:

1) Biden is a terrible candidate. He will get eaten up in the General election. He may still win but only because he isn’t trump. I’m not just parroting Trump here...he legit seems really old and tired. Like he doesn’t really want to be there. Weird.

2) Harris - she should not be the nominee at this point. She has some things going for her but she seems to only fall back on being a prosecutor...and she was explosed on that as well last night. Again - she could beat trump but she hardly seems like the best candidate (at this point).

3) Booker was far better than he has been. Still don’t see it.

4) Gabbard - she was pretty impressive from my view point. She seemed tough, sincere and ready for the spotlight. Like Harris and her always bringing up being a prosecutor...her playing the soldier card as much as she does is going to get old over time.

5) Yang - not a fan, but he did well for what he believes in.

Some others had a few moments here and there but nothing spectacular. I felt the Gellibrand questioning of Biden on his old op Ed was weird. Too much rambling to make a solid point. Seemed very “gotcha”...and people change and I’m not sure the full context was given. Weird.

i could barrow this down to 8 candidates right now. Would be willing to throw in 2 more if it had to be 10

Did you do something like this for night#1? Would like to read it.

Not a summary...but I can. This is from a moderate...so I may not be the target audience for the debates in a democratic primary.

1) Bernie - He is who he has been.  He is not a democrat, he is a legit socialist.  Free everything.  He hasn't moved off his point of view in any direction.  Which is good and bad.  He will win the votes he already has and not many more.  He may beat Trump...but its a vote that as a moderate I cannot make.  I won't vote for trump or Bernie.  His yelling and hand raising is getting really annoying.  Less tough and more angry grandpa.

2) Warren - she's what Bernie wants to be.  She has many of the same plans.  She comes across as tough.  She doesn't back down. She yells too...but the bad traits are toned down a bit.  This she is too far to the left for a moderate like me.  But she would be terrific in a debate with trump and could energize the voters in the Dem party.  She would have headwinds (like Hillary) but she will actually campaign.  It was a strong performance and I really think set her apart from bernie some. Her free everything campaign will face significant hurdles and it would be tough for someone like me to vote for her though.  It would be interesting how she defends her plans in front of a moderate or mixed crowd and not a primary. 

3) Pete - While I don't like all his policies, he was great again that night.  He was calm, collected, smart and able to articulate his answers and even the small details at times.  He is an inspiring candidate without relying on the HATE vote that Bernie does.  I really think he has a very slim shot at this nomination...but his career is going to be promising.  It wouldn't surprise me if he is elected president in in the next 12 years.  

4) Amy K - she had a strong night for her.  She really is the candidate that comes the closest to matching my views.  She is strong, tough and poised.  I think she improved herself in her debate.

5) Williamson - the bar was low for her, but she was impressive on stage that night.  She made some great comments regarding the Dem party and seemed to be saying the things that some others should say to defend their plans.  It was a really strong debate for her.

The rest - mostly throwaways.  Some nice things, but not enough their to energize the base or win a general election.  Perhaps if it was a 2 way race between on of them and like a Bernie.  But too many other options that are similar in ways a better candidates.

Thank you.

I think the whole "I'm a moderate" thing is a bit silly, but I guess it's a phase. Other than that I agree with a lot.

I think Bernie yelling helps him though and makes him feel honest. The "I WROTE THE DAMN BILL" felt more real than anything else of what I've seen that night. So I don't think that would be a negative for him making people care to vote.

Amy K I didn't like from the start, so haven't really given her any attention. 

Williamson is great - because like Trump and Yang she's in a position to not having to "protect" being a politician and therefore can spit truths. But she is crazy.

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Michael Moore making the case that being afraid of a progressive candidate due to losing moderates is bullshit.


"the working class are women, the working class are people of color, the working class are young people"

https://youtu.be/JWqGY5T8mTA

And yet he thinks Michelle Obama is the the candidate to beat Trump.  She's hardly a progressive.  Strange,  don't you think?

What is the point you're trying to make, Madame Web?

Consistent logic must escape you if you don't follow the point.  

Right, right ... I keep forgetting about that snarky attitude of yours. 

Sorry for asking. 

I'll remind you any time it's necessary.  

MayDay10

Lerxst1992 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Pretty crazy to think:
While Trump’s $267 billion is bad, the Democrats’ plans are worse. We counted $297 billion proposed by Biden, $690 billion from Buttigieg, $3.8 trillion from Warren, $4 trillion from Sanders and $4.3 trillion from Harris. That would double what the entire federal government spends now.
https://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2019/07/31/free-stuff-n2550923?fbclid=IwAR2mDPL1ppxW1SxG5wCKCP46VVRPdlJcrnluYyr6jAnXOMZSFe1IlX6mhD4

Here's the video just in case you don't feel like reading today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5odA8Gsmzs

Its actually even trickier than the wonky debates this week.

MFA is not free and will not include massive govt spending or an enormous tax 

The trick is converting a sizable portion of the economy, what employers pay for healthcare, directly  to worker salaries salaries. Pay us instead of our insurers.

If Bernie or Liz could do that, and then account for the lowering of the actual cost to provide care, the impact on our taxes would be minimal in theory 

The reason I love Bernie but dont support him is he has done a terrible job communicating this.  Too many Americans have a false perception on cost and I'll blame bernie for that because he has been talking about MFA healthcare the longest.

People, when making the "too expensive" argument, also fail to take into account the "tax" they already pay in their Health Care Premium every paycheck, what their employer is forced to kick in, and also all their deductibles and other out of pocket costs.  

I also loathe when Average Joe's cry about a "death tax" that effects billionaires.... yet, Average Joe goes to the nursing home and they siphon off their life's savings for their care.

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Michael Moore making the case that being afraid of a progressive candidate due to losing moderates is bullshit.


"the working class are women, the working class are people of color, the working class are young people"

https://youtu.be/JWqGY5T8mTA

And yet he thinks Michelle Obama is the the candidate to beat Trump.  She's hardly a progressive.  Strange,  don't you think?

What is the point you're trying to make, Madame Web?

Consistent logic must escape you if you don't follow the point.  

Right, right ... I keep forgetting about that snarky attitude of yours. 

Sorry for asking. 

I'll remind you any time it's necessary.  

MayDay10

And from last night, the one who gained the most value to me was Inslee.

These things are mainly worthless.  Candidates all largely agreeing with one another trying to stand out in some way, vying to reach that elusive 5% mark.  The ones over 5% just trying to survive and advance.   Lots of grandstanding, time hogging, and yelling.

Harris did give me douche chills when she went on about requiring companies to immediately adapt equal pay or else lose 1% of their profits.  Sounds like a terrible idea with a lot of potentially unintended consequences

cincybearcat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

So I was able to watch the last 1+ hours. So my opinion based only on that:

1) Biden is a terrible candidate. He will get eaten up in the General election. He may still win but only because he isn’t trump. I’m not just parroting Trump here...he legit seems really old and tired. Like he doesn’t really want to be there. Weird.

2) Harris - she should not be the nominee at this point. She has some things going for her but she seems to only fall back on being a prosecutor...and she was explosed on that as well last night. Again - she could beat trump but she hardly seems like the best candidate (at this point).

3) Booker was far better than he has been. Still don’t see it.

4) Gabbard - she was pretty impressive from my view point. She seemed tough, sincere and ready for the spotlight. Like Harris and her always bringing up being a prosecutor...her playing the soldier card as much as she does is going to get old over time.

5) Yang - not a fan, but he did well for what he believes in.

Some others had a few moments here and there but nothing spectacular. I felt the Gellibrand questioning of Biden on his old op Ed was weird. Too much rambling to make a solid point. Seemed very “gotcha”...and people change and I’m not sure the full context was given. Weird.

i could barrow this down to 8 candidates right now. Would be willing to throw in 2 more if it had to be 10

Did you do something like this for night#1? Would like to read it.

Not a summary...but I can. This is from a moderate...so I may not be the target audience for the debates in a democratic primary.

1) Bernie - He is who he has been.  He is not a democrat, he is a legit socialist.  Free everything.  He hasn't moved off his point of view in any direction.  Which is good and bad.  He will win the votes he already has and not many more.  He may beat Trump...but its a vote that as a moderate I cannot make.  I won't vote for trump or Bernie.  His yelling and hand raising is getting really annoying.  Less tough and more angry grandpa.

2) Warren - she's what Bernie wants to be.  She has many of the same plans.  She comes across as tough.  She doesn't back down. She yells too...but the bad traits are toned down a bit.  This she is too far to the left for a moderate like me.  But she would be terrific in a debate with trump and could energize the voters in the Dem party.  She would have headwinds (like Hillary) but she will actually campaign.  It was a strong performance and I really think set her apart from bernie some. Her free everything campaign will face significant hurdles and it would be tough for someone like me to vote for her though.  It would be interesting how she defends her plans in front of a moderate or mixed crowd and not a primary. 

3) Pete - While I don't like all his policies, he was great again that night.  He was calm, collected, smart and able to articulate his answers and even the small details at times.  He is an inspiring candidate without relying on the HATE vote that Bernie does.  I really think he has a very slim shot at this nomination...but his career is going to be promising.  It wouldn't surprise me if he is elected president in in the next 12 years.  

4) Amy K - she had a strong night for her.  She really is the candidate that comes the closest to matching my views.  She is strong, tough and poised.  I think she improved herself in her debate.

5) Williamson - the bar was low for her, but she was impressive on stage that night.  She made some great comments regarding the Dem party and seemed to be saying the things that some others should say to defend their plans.  It was a really strong debate for her.

The rest - mostly throwaways.  Some nice things, but not enough their to energize the base or win a general election.  Perhaps if it was a 2 way race between on of them and like a Bernie.  But too many other options that are similar in ways a better candidates.

Thank you.

I think the whole "I'm a moderate" thing is a bit silly, but I guess it's a phase. Other than that I agree with a lot.

I think Bernie yelling helps him though and makes him feel honest. The "I WROTE THE DAMN BILL" felt more real than anything else of what I've seen that night. So I don't think that would be a negative for him making people care to vote.

Amy K I didn't like from the start, so haven't really given her any attention. 

Williamson is great - because like Trump and Yang she's in a position to not having to "protect" being a politician and therefore can spit truths. But she is crazy.

Why is the moderate thing silly? I was just trying to admit I’m not the target of the dem primary.

I vote republican and democrat. 

cincybearcat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Michael Moore making the case that being afraid of a progressive candidate due to losing moderates is bullshit.


"the working class are women, the working class are people of color, the working class are young people"

https://youtu.be/JWqGY5T8mTA

And yet he thinks Michelle Obama is the the candidate to beat Trump.  She's hardly a progressive.  Strange,  don't you think?

What is the point you're trying to make, Madame Web?

Consistent logic must escape you if you don't follow the point.  

Right, right ... I keep forgetting about that snarky attitude of yours. 

Sorry for asking. 

I'll remind you any time it's necessary.  

Ok, enough with the stupid memes. It make this forum NSFW

Gern Blansten

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

How does that say they aren’t shitty candidates? Low bar

mcgruff10

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

True but do any of them really stand out to you?  I mean i absolutely loved Obama as a candidate.  I was excited and proud to vote for him.  These candidates?  Yeah not too much.  It was the same feeling for Hillary, I voted for her but I wasn't overly excited to think of her as the president.  

cincybearcat

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

True but do any of them really stand out to you?  I mean i absolutely loved Obama as a candidate.  I was excited and proud to vote for him.  These candidates?  Yeah not too much.  It was the same feeling for Hillary, I voted for her but I wasn't overly excited to think of her as the president.  

I’d feel good voting for Pete or Amy. Someone else could stand out between now and Election Day. But as of now those are the only 2 that could get me to the polls based on them and not their opponent

MayDay10

Hillary is as center as they come and was possibly the most qualified person ever to run for president.  

Spiritual_Chaos

MayDay10 said:

Hillary is as center as they come and was possibly the most qualified person ever to run for president.  

But people had been conditioned to not like her for so many years. 

She is like "Can't Deny Me" if its on the new album.

Even if most of them did not know why they disliked her. It seems. Something-something-emails-and-boring-clothes

mrussel1

MayDay10 said:

Hillary is as center as they come and was possibly the most qualified person ever to run for president.  

Douche chills... that's a great term.  Never heard it before. 

MayDay10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

MayDay10 said:

Hillary is as center as they come and was possibly the most qualified person ever to run for president.  

But people had been conditioned to not like her for so many years. 

She is like "Can't Deny Me" if its on the new album.

Even if most of them did not know why they disliked her. It seems. Something-something-emails-and-boring-clothes

It reminds me of a local County Clerk/Comptroller race a couple years ago.  

There was a ex-TV news 'celebrity', all polished on interviews and television, with a white smile... but no real financial or government experience.

The other guy was an awkward looking overweight pale guy who looked like he hadn't been outside in awhile with glasses and when interviewed he kept looking at his feet. 

I told my wife that I know exactly who I want handling our money.

Ex TV news local celebrity guy won in a landslide.

Since then, all sorts of corruption.

OnWis97

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

True but do any of them really stand out to you?  I mean i absolutely loved Obama as a candidate.  I was excited and proud to vote for him.  These candidates?  Yeah not too much.  It was the same feeling for Hillary, I voted for her but I wasn't overly excited to think of her as the president.  

I’d feel good voting for Pete or Amy. Someone else could stand out between now and Election Day. But as of now those are the only 2 that could get me to the polls based on them and not their opponent

I tend to agree with McGruff 1) there's no Obama in the mix and 2) it's amazing that there can't be one every cycle...it's amazing that Obama's practically a once-in-a-generation candidate.  

As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy.  I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did.  You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.

But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.

I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump.  Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.

mrussel1

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

True but do any of them really stand out to you?  I mean i absolutely loved Obama as a candidate.  I was excited and proud to vote for him.  These candidates?  Yeah not too much.  It was the same feeling for Hillary, I voted for her but I wasn't overly excited to think of her as the president.  

I’d feel good voting for Pete or Amy. Someone else could stand out between now and Election Day. But as of now those are the only 2 that could get me to the polls based on them and not their opponent

I tend to agree with McGruff 1) there's no Obama in the mix and 2) it's amazing that there can't be one every cycle...it's amazing that Obama's practically a once-in-a-generation candidate.  

As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy.  I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did.  You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.

But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.

I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump.  Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.

Im hoping he's better in a different format.  Also, he's taking shots from everyone as the front runner. That's not an easy gig. And some are uber obscure like the ridiculous one from Gill..

cincybearcat

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

True but do any of them really stand out to you?  I mean i absolutely loved Obama as a candidate.  I was excited and proud to vote for him.  These candidates?  Yeah not too much.  It was the same feeling for Hillary, I voted for her but I wasn't overly excited to think of her as the president.  

I’d feel good voting for Pete or Amy. Someone else could stand out between now and Election Day. But as of now those are the only 2 that could get me to the polls based on them and not their opponent

I tend to agree with McGruff 1) there's no Obama in the mix and 2) it's amazing that there can't be one every cycle...it's amazing that Obama's practically a once-in-a-generation candidate.  

As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy.  I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did.  You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.

But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.

I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump.  Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.

I have no data...but it wouldn't surprise me that if the African american community wasn't as homophobic as it is, Mayor Pete would be doing a lot better.  I think he is likely "that" candidate.  But we will miss out on him cause even a large portion of the democratic voters don't like it when a guy loves another guy. But I guess I haven't seen any recent data...have to go look.

Gern Blansten

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

True but do any of them really stand out to you?  I mean i absolutely loved Obama as a candidate.  I was excited and proud to vote for him.  These candidates?  Yeah not too much.  It was the same feeling for Hillary, I voted for her but I wasn't overly excited to think of her as the president.  

I’d feel good voting for Pete or Amy. Someone else could stand out between now and Election Day. But as of now those are the only 2 that could get me to the polls based on them and not their opponent

I tend to agree with McGruff 1) there's no Obama in the mix and 2) it's amazing that there can't be one every cycle...it's amazing that Obama's practically a once-in-a-generation candidate.  

As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy.  I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did.  You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.

But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.

I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump.  Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.

Pete could get there.  He's sharp as hell.

I think Biden will hit his stride.  He's been out of the mix for awhile, it's just taking him time to adjust.  It's been 7 years since he's been in a campaign after all.

mcgruff10

cincybearcat said:

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mcgruff10 said:

The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty.  Where is the next Obama?  A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?  

Disagree....any of them would be better than tRump.  

True but do any of them really stand out to you?  I mean i absolutely loved Obama as a candidate.  I was excited and proud to vote for him.  These candidates?  Yeah not too much.  It was the same feeling for Hillary, I voted for her but I wasn't overly excited to think of her as the president.  

I’d feel good voting for Pete or Amy. Someone else could stand out between now and Election Day. But as of now those are the only 2 that could get me to the polls based on them and not their opponent

I tend to agree with McGruff 1) there's no Obama in the mix and 2) it's amazing that there can't be one every cycle...it's amazing that Obama's practically a once-in-a-generation candidate.  

As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy.  I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did.  You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.

But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.

I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump.  Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.

I have no data...but it wouldn't surprise me that if the African american community wasn't as homophobic as it is, Mayor Pete would be doing a lot better.  I think he is likely "that" candidate.  But we will miss out on him cause even a large portion of the democratic voters don't like it when a guy loves another guy. But I guess I haven't seen any recent data...have to go look.

I never knew the African American community was homophobic. Interesting.