The Democratic Candidates
Comments
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The Juggler said:jeffbr said:mcgruff10 said:
Former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, who served as the first White House chief to Obama, said Democratic presidential candidates were being extraordinarily short-sighted and wrong-headed by assailing the Obama administration's record, rather than trying to build upon it.
This is exactly the problem. Obama was popular and while there are parts of his legacy that weren't necessarily stellar, the Dems need to run on a "return to normalcy" which we experienced in the Obama era, rather than talk about all of the horrible things the Dems did under Obama/Biden. Trump must be super happy about the past couple of nights.
Part of the problem is the way the DNC set these debates up to have a bunch of lesser tier candidates who have zero shots of winning going up against the ones who actually do. Fucking DeBlasio was just tossing grenades during his two debates. Fuck him. He sucks.
Everyone would have been much better served seen Biden go up against Sanders, Warrnen, Harris, Buttigegehappoiueggie, and maybe a couple others during his two debates.
The DNC is trying to give the lessers a chance to climb up in the polls. Next time there will be far fewer debaters.
Giving the lessers about 7 minutes total talking time during a long debate and never knowing when its their turn to speak makes it extremely
challenging to shine.0 -
OnWis97 said:cincybearcat said:mcgruff10 said:Gern Blansten said:mcgruff10 said:The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty. Where is the next Obama? A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?
As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy. I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did. You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.
But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.
I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump. Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.
Biden has never been attacked as a frontrunner from multiple leftists before this summer. He did better yesterday and will do better as the debate field shrinks.
Biden had an informal talk with the press today and he sounded excellent. That's a much better forum than having 19 debaters attack you over 2 nights.
I'm not sure we have seen any candidate encounter that challenge before (since DT was not perceived as a strong frontrunner when 10 Rs were debating last time).0 -
Lerxst1992 said:OnWis97 said:cincybearcat said:mcgruff10 said:Gern Blansten said:mcgruff10 said:The more I read and watch the more I realize that all the dem candidates are pretty damn shitty. Where is the next Obama? A country of 300 million plus and this is the best we have?
As a politically engaged person, yeah, you can vote for Amy. I'm from her state and she's smart and capable. But she's not going to bring people to the polls like Obama did. You mention Pete...he's the most Obama-like among them, but I don't think he quite has the appeal to the sometimes-apolitical that Obama did.
But to McGruff's point, most of them seem to be stumbling their way through and just as likely to turn people off as pull them in.
I feel like there was a time when Biden was actually kinda sharp-tongued and would have run up the score in the debates with a dolt like Trump. Well, if so, those days seem to be behind him.
Biden has never been attacked as a frontrunner from multiple leftists before this summer. He did better yesterday and will do better as the debate field shrinks.
Biden had an informal talk with the press today and he sounded excellent. That's a much better forum than having 19 debaters attack you over 2 nights.
I'm not sure we have seen any candidate encounter that challenge before (since DT was not perceived as a strong frontrunner when 10 Rs were debating last time).
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@mcgruff10 I’m liking the following: Biden, Warren, Buddha, Harris, and Castro. And not necessarily in that order or who I like or want to win. Just that from what I’ve seen thus far, I think they’re capable and all but Biden have a future, particularly Buddha, Castro and Harris.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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dignin said:The Juggler said:cincybearcat said:The Juggler said:I'm less confident about these democrats' chances than I was a month ago.
Mostly because
1) I now think Biden is a terrible candidate. Never liked the guy but thought he could win. He seems tired and like he doesn’t want to be there.
2) Dems keep moving left, which is away from me and moderates. So even if they win, I’m not going to like the result.
3) it seems like it’s a Biden/Sanders/Warren race at the moment at that is about as bad as it could get for me.
But yeah, overall, pretty disappointing if you're a moderate. They barely spent any time talking about the voters they need to win those most important 12-15 states last night.
But I do agree, if you are a moderate, the shift in the Democratic party would be disappointing.
The shift in both parties. Republicans just started soonerhippiemom = goodness0 -
Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:Lerxst1992 said:mcgruff10 said:Pretty crazy to think:
While Trump’s $267 billion is bad, the Democrats’ plans are worse. We counted $297 billion proposed by Biden, $690 billion from Buttigieg, $3.8 trillion from Warren, $4 trillion from Sanders and $4.3 trillion from Harris. That would double what the entire federal government spends now.
https://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2019/07/31/free-stuff-n2550923?fbclid=IwAR2mDPL1ppxW1SxG5wCKCP46VVRPdlJcrnluYyr6jAnXOMZSFe1IlX6mhD4
Here's the video just in case you don't feel like reading today:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5odA8Gsmzs
Its actually even trickier than the wonky debates this week.
MFA is not free and will not include massive govt spending or an enormous tax
The trick is converting a sizable portion of the economy, what employers pay for healthcare, directly to worker salaries salaries. Pay us instead of our insurers.
If Bernie or Liz could do that, and then account for the lowering of the actual cost to provide care, the impact on our taxes would be minimal in theory
The reason I love Bernie but dont support him is he has done a terrible job communicating this. Too many Americans have a false perception on cost and I'll blame bernie for that because he has been talking about MFA healthcare the longest.
Forcing employers to turn money saved through employer matches into salary increases to net the cost to neutral for the inevitable tax increases feels much more difficult.
My biggest concern is quality of care if private hospitals turn into government entities. We have government hospitals in this country and the care is terrible, wait times atrocious, etc. The VA is awful.
I was attempting to point out though I love Bernie (but want Biden to win), I blame him for not getting a decent explanation of MFA funding.
My concern is there's alot of passion coming from the Bernie Liz flank and they may be able to push MFA onto the platform. So it would help us if folks understand it's not necessarily more expensive if that were to happen.
At this point in time a Medicare option is the best plan for dems to propose
Warren is more convincing, but Im immune to her because every problem has the sane solution from the same pool of tax money.0 -
Hi! said:Im so sick of Harris lecturing and waving her finger in people’s faces. She doesn’t seem to be likable or friendly, more abrasive and rude. Definitely see the prosecutor side come out in these debates. Not sure if she wants to help me with affordable health care or throw me in jail.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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cincybearcat said:dignin said:The Juggler said:cincybearcat said:The Juggler said:I'm less confident about these democrats' chances than I was a month ago.
Mostly because
1) I now think Biden is a terrible candidate. Never liked the guy but thought he could win. He seems tired and like he doesn’t want to be there.
2) Dems keep moving left, which is away from me and moderates. So even if they win, I’m not going to like the result.
3) it seems like it’s a Biden/Sanders/Warren race at the moment at that is about as bad as it could get for me.
But yeah, overall, pretty disappointing if you're a moderate. They barely spent any time talking about the voters they need to win those most important 12-15 states last night.
But I do agree, if you are a moderate, the shift in the Democratic party would be disappointing.
The shift in both parties. Republicans just started sooner
So, its not the same.
Having kids die in cages and not stopping the gun-violence epidemic VS a green new deal and wanting citizens to actually live"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
mcgruff10 said:Deblasio is such a pos."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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mrussel1 said:My biggest concern is quality of care if private hospitals turn into government entities. We have government hospitals in this country and the care is terrible, wait times atrocious, etc. The VA is awful.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
mcgruff10 said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
Elizabeth Warren: Medicare For All Is Cheaper Than Our Current System
https://youtu.be/RlHik6YAPns
So, first answer this question - what does that graph tell you?
And after that, I can answer your question. Because I don't really understand why your question even would be asked if you can read the graph.
So lets take it in the right order.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:cincybearcat said:dignin said:The Juggler said:cincybearcat said:The Juggler said:I'm less confident about these democrats' chances than I was a month ago.
Mostly because
1) I now think Biden is a terrible candidate. Never liked the guy but thought he could win. He seems tired and like he doesn’t want to be there.
2) Dems keep moving left, which is away from me and moderates. So even if they win, I’m not going to like the result.
3) it seems like it’s a Biden/Sanders/Warren race at the moment at that is about as bad as it could get for me.
But yeah, overall, pretty disappointing if you're a moderate. They barely spent any time talking about the voters they need to win those most important 12-15 states last night.
But I do agree, if you are a moderate, the shift in the Democratic party would be disappointing.
The shift in both parties. Republicans just started sooner
So, its not the same.
Having kids die in cages and not stopping the gun-violence epidemic VS a green new deal and wanting citizens to actually live
Im simply saying each party is moving more towards their extremes. Each party moving away from the moderates in their party or the moderate independents. I’m not comparing policies.hippiemom = goodness0 -
cincybearcat said:Spiritual_Chaos said:cincybearcat said:dignin said:The Juggler said:cincybearcat said:The Juggler said:I'm less confident about these democrats' chances than I was a month ago.
Mostly because
1) I now think Biden is a terrible candidate. Never liked the guy but thought he could win. He seems tired and like he doesn’t want to be there.
2) Dems keep moving left, which is away from me and moderates. So even if they win, I’m not going to like the result.
3) it seems like it’s a Biden/Sanders/Warren race at the moment at that is about as bad as it could get for me.
But yeah, overall, pretty disappointing if you're a moderate. They barely spent any time talking about the voters they need to win those most important 12-15 states last night.
But I do agree, if you are a moderate, the shift in the Democratic party would be disappointing.
The shift in both parties. Republicans just started sooner
So, its not the same.
Having kids die in cages and not stopping the gun-violence epidemic VS a green new deal and wanting citizens to actually live
Im simply saying each party is moving more towards their extremes. Each party moving away from the moderates in their party or the moderate independents. I’m not comparing policies.
Maybe it's time to leave the "moderates" behind and whatever their reasons are for staying "moderates" if some change is actually to happen - for the american people and the world.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:mcgruff10 said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
Elizabeth Warren: Medicare For All Is Cheaper Than Our Current System
https://youtu.be/RlHik6YAPns
So, first answer this question - what does that graph tell you?
And after that, I can answer your question. Because I don't really understand why your question even would be asked if you can read the graph.
So lets take it in the right order.
BTW, I don't think I need to state this, but please don't confuse my asking for you to post meaningful information with sources, with supporting one health care system over another.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:mrussel1 said:My biggest concern is quality of care if private hospitals turn into government entities. We have government hospitals in this country and the care is terrible, wait times atrocious, etc. The VA is awful.
Once again, you are cherry-picking what you want, ignoring all constraints or uphill battles like they simply don't exist. You don't seem to realize that some of us are on your side, and not saying 'no', but saying 'not right now', and some (like me) would even prefer to say 'not right now but let's make a plan that coexists with the unique characteristics and needs of the USA and its citizens'.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
benjs said:Spiritual_Chaos said:mcgruff10 said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
Elizabeth Warren: Medicare For All Is Cheaper Than Our Current System
https://youtu.be/RlHik6YAPns
So, first answer this question - what does that graph tell you?
And after that, I can answer your question. Because I don't really understand why your question even would be asked if you can read the graph.
So lets take it in the right order.
BTW, I don't think I need to state this, but please don't confuse my asking for you to post meaningful information with sources, with supporting one health care system over another.
But in the words of David Letterman
(haha - not saying you are Bill O'Reilly)
But let me ask you, now that you are not ignoring me and not defending but defending the US having DOUBLE the price of health care (haha) - name another country that can be compared to the US? Or are you saying that US is a unique snowflake of a country impossible to compare with others? So diverse. So big. 12 years old can marry. Healthcare prices must be double Etc.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
The goalposts have move far to the right. Obama was pretty central/moderate yet he was painted as a commie. Hillary was basically a 1950s republican.
The word socialism has been weaponized expertly and framed as communism. Any progressive idea like fixing the health care cost issue, affordable education, fair elections, accepting science, etc are now considered moving toward stalin and work camps
If the extreme left was present, we would be talking about a workers' revolution to take over the government as well as the means of production. Trying to adapt to the world as if its 2020 and not pretending its 1960 is not crazy-left.
0 -
cincybearcat said:Spiritual_Chaos said:cincybearcat said:dignin said:The Juggler said:cincybearcat said:The Juggler said:I'm less confident about these democrats' chances than I was a month ago.
Mostly because
1) I now think Biden is a terrible candidate. Never liked the guy but thought he could win. He seems tired and like he doesn’t want to be there.
2) Dems keep moving left, which is away from me and moderates. So even if they win, I’m not going to like the result.
3) it seems like it’s a Biden/Sanders/Warren race at the moment at that is about as bad as it could get for me.
But yeah, overall, pretty disappointing if you're a moderate. They barely spent any time talking about the voters they need to win those most important 12-15 states last night.
But I do agree, if you are a moderate, the shift in the Democratic party would be disappointing.
The shift in both parties. Republicans just started sooner
So, its not the same.
Having kids die in cages and not stopping the gun-violence epidemic VS a green new deal and wanting citizens to actually live
Im simply saying each party is moving more towards their extremes. Each party moving away from the moderates in their party or the moderate independents. I’m not comparing policies.
Bear in mind that shifts towards extremes are pretty difficult to detect, because the best leading indicator we have for movement on the political spectrum is just voter volume (and I mean volume as in how loud/outspoken they are), and moderates are moderate - and their voices can be drowned out by the far-louder polar extremes. I think there's a shift to the left in the Democratic party going on, however I believe it could be less significant than it feels based on that fact.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
MayDay10 said:The goalposts have move far to the right. Obama was pretty central/moderate yet he was painted as a commie. Hillary was basically a 1950s republican.
The word socialism has been weaponized expertly and framed as communism. Any progressive idea like fixing the health care cost issue, affordable education, fair elections, accepting science, etc are now considered moving toward stalin and work camps
If the extreme left was present, we would be talking about a workers' revolution to take over the government as well as the means of production. Trying to adapt to the world as if its 2020 and not pretending its 1960 is not crazy-left."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:benjs said:Spiritual_Chaos said:mcgruff10 said:Spiritual_Chaos said:
Elizabeth Warren: Medicare For All Is Cheaper Than Our Current System
https://youtu.be/RlHik6YAPns
So, first answer this question - what does that graph tell you?
And after that, I can answer your question. Because I don't really understand why your question even would be asked if you can read the graph.
So lets take it in the right order.
BTW, I don't think I need to state this, but please don't confuse my asking for you to post meaningful information with sources, with supporting one health care system over another.
But in the words of David Letterman
But let me ask you, now that you are not ignoring me and not defending but defending the US having DOUBLE the price of health care (haha) - name another country that can be compared to the US? Or are you saying that US is a unique snowflake of a country impossible to compare with others? So diverse. So big. 12 years old can marry. Healthcare prices must be double Etc.
As for your 'now that you're not ignoring me' comment - I read almost all of your posts. I respond to the ones that I think are worth responding to (really no different to anyone else on here). Only difference is now I don't have to scroll through as many silly one-liners or gifs about why Bernie Sanders is the messiah and the rest of politicians are Satan reincarnated.
Feel free to elaborate where you still have confusion. I hope I've shown you already that at least 80% of what I said is not crap, just stuff you'd like to ignore.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10
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