Where would you rather live the US or Sweden

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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,488
    Canada
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,884
    U.S.A.
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    That's a stupid comment.  A resident in VA does not/should not take responsibility for KY laws.  You're trolling...yet again.  
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2019
    U.S.A.
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    That's a stupid comment.  A resident in VA does not/should not take responsibility for KY laws.  You're trolling...yet again.  
    And here I was beginning to think SC was knowledgeable about USA’s state vs federal
    laws and regulations.  I guess not...
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,941
    Canada
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    WAIT A MINUTE!

    Currently, the majority of people held in American jails (as opposed to state and federal prisons) are awaiting trial – people our criminal justice system presumes to be innocent. Between 1999 and 2014, the number of people held in jail before trial ballooned, accounting for 99% of the total growth of America’s jailhouse population. About 65% of people on any given day in local jails are awaiting trial because they cannot afford bail.

    Low-income individuals and people of color face greater difficulties posting bail and securing pre-trial release. According to the Prison Policy Initiative, black men and women ages 23 to 39 held at local jails had median earnings between $568 and $900 a month prior to arrest. The median bail for a felony arrest is $10,000, an exorbitant sum that overwhelmingly forces arrestees and their families into the clutches of bail bond agents.


    THIS DOESN'T SOUND LIKE PRESUMED INNOCENT AMERICA!

    It's almost like the rich get a great way to get out of jail and pay of witnesses, but the poor are a class below in the eyes of the US justice system.

    In Sweden everyone is treated the same.

    The whole point of bail is that skipping on it has to cause financial pain.  If you can't make bail then you can't.  But it's set.  But to be clear, if you are in jail awaiting trial, that means you've been charged.  The 4th amendment also guarantees you the right to a speedy trial.  Felony bail of 10k seems completely reasonable to me.  


    Charged yes but still innocent. 

    There should be a way to account for a defendant's wealth when setting bail. Jailing a presumed innocent person hardly seems like justice. 

    Setting up electronic surveillance and an expensive bond are excellent ways to ensure court appearance for defendants with minimal flight risk.
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,994
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    Jeez for someone that's so obsessed with American politics, you don't have a good grasp of how the laws are made and how they work here. Every state is different because it's a big country. It's sort of like 50 separate countries. Especially when you consider that little country like Sweden is about the size of only New Jersey. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,488
    Canada
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    Jeez for someone that's so obsessed with American politics, you don't have a good grasp of how the laws are made and how they work here. Every state is different because it's a big country. It's sort of like 50 separate countries. Especially when you consider that little country like Sweden is about the size of only New Jersey. 
    about the size of only New Jersey - and do not allow children to be married. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,488
    Canada
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    That's a stupid comment.  A resident in VA does not/should not take responsibility for KY laws.  You're trolling...yet again.  
    And here I was beginning to think SC was knowledgeable about USA’s state vs federal
    laws and regulations.  I guess not...
    You live in a country where 12 year olds can marry. Not me. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    U.S.A.
    Every country has their weird outdated laws.  For instance:
    ”Spontaneous dancing still illegal in Sweden”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/sweden-dancing-illegal-spontaneous-law-a7905531.html


  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,994
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    Jeez for someone that's so obsessed with American politics, you don't have a good grasp of how the laws are made and how they work here. Every state is different because it's a big country. It's sort of like 50 separate countries. Especially when you consider that little country like Sweden is about the size of only New Jersey. 
    about the size of only New Jersey - and do not allow children to be married. 
    okie dokie dude
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,488
    Canada
    lastexitlondon said:
    Why the hell are there ANY states that it can happen.
    I don't know - it's crazy. But people here seem to defend because it is not in their state so being in their country doesn't matter.


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,884
    U.S.A.
    Lerxst1992 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    WAIT A MINUTE!

    Currently, the majority of people held in American jails (as opposed to state and federal prisons) are awaiting trial – people our criminal justice system presumes to be innocent. Between 1999 and 2014, the number of people held in jail before trial ballooned, accounting for 99% of the total growth of America’s jailhouse population. About 65% of people on any given day in local jails are awaiting trial because they cannot afford bail.

    Low-income individuals and people of color face greater difficulties posting bail and securing pre-trial release. According to the Prison Policy Initiative, black men and women ages 23 to 39 held at local jails had median earnings between $568 and $900 a month prior to arrest. The median bail for a felony arrest is $10,000, an exorbitant sum that overwhelmingly forces arrestees and their families into the clutches of bail bond agents.


    THIS DOESN'T SOUND LIKE PRESUMED INNOCENT AMERICA!

    It's almost like the rich get a great way to get out of jail and pay of witnesses, but the poor are a class below in the eyes of the US justice system.

    In Sweden everyone is treated the same.

    The whole point of bail is that skipping on it has to cause financial pain.  If you can't make bail then you can't.  But it's set.  But to be clear, if you are in jail awaiting trial, that means you've been charged.  The 4th amendment also guarantees you the right to a speedy trial.  Felony bail of 10k seems completely reasonable to me.  


    Charged yes but still innocent. 

    There should be a way to account for a defendant's wealth when setting bail. Jailing a presumed innocent person hardly seems like justice. 

    Setting up electronic surveillance and an expensive bond are excellent ways to ensure court appearance for defendants with minimal flight risk.
    The justice system does do that.  The wealthier you are, the higher the bail that is set (along with the type of offense).  The tough part is the lower side.  You can't necessarily let someone who is poor out without any bail, for something like robbery, because they dont' have anything to lose.  The amount has to be connected with losing some amount that will hurt.  This is where the right to a speedy trial is important as well.  
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2019
    U.S.A.
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    That map is wrong to have the whole USA orange when it's only a few states that allow such young marriages. And no 12-year-olds are being "forced" to marry. Nor can they marry adults. A 14-year-old can technically marry a 12-year-old in Massachusetts, but that's probably rare. 

    https://www.thespruce.com/legal-age-marriage-laws-by-state-2300971

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States


    Well, I do believe the states make up the country that is the US. Take some responsibility.  

    12 year olds being married? 

    Come on Ted.
    That's a stupid comment.  A resident in VA does not/should not take responsibility for KY laws.  You're trolling...yet again.  
    And here I was beginning to think SC was knowledgeable about USA’s state vs federal
    laws and regulations.  I guess not...
    You live in a country where 12 year olds can marry. Not me. 
    And I have no vote as to what happens in a completely different state regarding their state’s laws...You are coming off as pretty ignorant on this one, but keep it up, I enjoy the show. I guess we should badger you because you live on the same planet that 12 year olds can marry? 

    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    U.S.A.
    New Jersey is 16 to marry.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,488
    edited July 2019
    Canada
    So, in Sweden you are not allowed to marry children and your are not allowed to beat your children.

    In the US you can marry children and you are allowed to beat your children. 

    Add to that the death at child birth rates - and not having any maternal leave or paternal leave.

    What the hell is wrong with that medieval country. Start caring about your citizens and get with the times:

    From 2016-2019, 13 states raised their minimum marriage age for minors, or added a minimum age when they previously did not have one.[5]

    In many cases, minors in the US may be married when they are under the age of sexual consent in their state (which ranges from 16 to 18).[6] In some states minors cannot legally divorce, leave their spouse, or enter a shelter to escape abuse.[7][8] In 2001 in Tennessee, three 10-year-old girls were married to men aged 24-31.[9] Meanwhile in Alabama, a 74-year-old man married a 14-year-old girl.[10] Both states have since set minimum ages, of 17[11] and 16 respectively.[12]

    Between 2000 and 2015, over 200,000 minors were legally married in the United States.[10] The vast majority of child marriages were between a child and an adult.[9][10] The majority of married children were girls.[10]




    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,884
    U.S.A.
    PJPOWER said:
    Every country has their weird outdated laws.  For instance:
    ”Spontaneous dancing still illegal in Sweden”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/sweden-dancing-illegal-spontaneous-law-a7905531.html


    Yes every state has weird laws, but most of them aren't enforced.  Evidently this one is.  

    But 17 months on, police are still cracking down on bar owners for the crime of dancing customers and the punishments are harsh – ranging from the removal of other permits, to harsh fines or even prison.
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    U.S.A.
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Every country has their weird outdated laws.  For instance:
    ”Spontaneous dancing still illegal in Sweden”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/sweden-dancing-illegal-spontaneous-law-a7905531.html


    Yes every state has weird laws, but most of them aren't enforced.  Evidently this one is.  

    But 17 months on, police are still cracking down on bar owners for the crime of dancing customers and the punishments are harsh – ranging from the removal of other permits, to harsh fines or even prison.
    Prison....for dancing???  I thought Sweden only had the best laws evaaaaa?
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,884
    U.S.A.
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Every country has their weird outdated laws.  For instance:
    ”Spontaneous dancing still illegal in Sweden”
    https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/sweden-dancing-illegal-spontaneous-law-a7905531.html


    Yes every state has weird laws, but most of them aren't enforced.  Evidently this one is.  

    But 17 months on, police are still cracking down on bar owners for the crime of dancing customers and the punishments are harsh – ranging from the removal of other permits, to harsh fines or even prison.
    Prison....for dancing???  I thought Sweden only had the best laws evaaaaa?
    Word is A$AP was moonwalking on the street, which is why the investigation is taking so long.  They may tack that onto the charges.  We'll know in just a few weeks.  
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,994
    edited July 2019
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    So, in Sweden you are not allowed to marry children and your are not allowed to beat your children.

    In the US you can marry children and you are allowed to beat your children. 
    Now in toady's American-hating kick you're currently on about child marriage, at least you have a foot to stand on because there are laws and states that allow this. But why put that you're "allowed to beat your children"? Ugh....
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,488
    edited July 2019
    Canada
    I need to go read my "Making of Star Wars" (american movie) book now. I can't take more of this--

    -- 12 years olds. Allowed to beat. Allowed to marry. 


    The Backwards States of America

    VS

    SWE- care about our childr-EN
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    U.S.A.
    I can’t wait for tomorrow’s tirade!  What will be next?  Free Pitt 13 poster for the person who correctly guesses tomorrow’s topic. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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