The Democratic Candidates
Comments
-
I am watching the pre show and am enjoying my seltzer made with my sodastream (which I used to mock) that I got for Christmas. God, I love it. Enjoy!!!Jearlpam0925 said:
Holy crap this is so good. Kudos. Looking forward to tonight! Happy viewing, everyone!njnancy said:
There is a huge difference between liberal and progressive. Sure, liberals started calling themselves progressives back when Repubs made it a dirty word, but there is a huge difference and people are starting to go back to calling themselves what is true to their ideology.mrussel1 said:
Why do you think "blexit" is a real thing and not just propaganda? I have not seen any consistent numbers showing Trump has made any inroads with African Americans.OnWis97 said:
Interesting...I do think time could be the enemy for him in this regard.Jearlpam0925 said:
Biden is actually holding the largest African American vote....and it's not even close. I saw in a poll he's polling at 62% with African Americans. I think his problem is losing this base the more he talks. Well, not the more he talks, but the more the other candidates get exposure.OnWis97 said:
To be frank, I'm not even sure who I'm arguing for...mrussel1 said:
So you're arguing for a centrist candidate that isn't Biden? Sure im fine with that. I like Harris for example. But she needs to break out. I disagree with your premise. I think Biden draws in some center right people. I guess the only question is whether he loses much on his left. But I think he is the best shot at winning PA, MI and Wisconsin. I don't see him losing MN.OnWis97 said:
First, it's not about a "more liberal" candidate. If anything, "more liberal" is a bad idea and plays into the "SOCIALIST!" theme.mrussel1 said:
California, new York, new Jersey, Virginia, Delaware, DC, Oregon, Washington, Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Colorado, Vermont, New Mexico are all locks.OnWis97 said:
Biden would probably win fewer than 10 states.dignin said:
Surely Joe "nothing will fundamentally change" Biden will get all the non voters and young people off their couch and out to vote.OnWis97 said:gimmesometruth27 said:is anybody going to watch the debates? personally I have zero interest. i am fucking exhausted by politics.
the dems should not try to even sway trump supporters. they never will. they are better served by focusing on getting people out to the polls. the people that did not vote are who got trump elected.
Given how important I view this election: I'm pulling for the person that is going to make the non-voters feel like getting off the couch and voting FOR them (as opposed to against Trump).
No change you can believe in.
This is the big danger of selecting Biden as the nominee.
"Trump sucks" is not enough for a democrat to win. If America were a better place, it would be.
Which of these states does Biden not win that a more liberal candidate does win?
But my point was that I doubt Biden's going to increase the number of Dem voters; he's going to be more "Kerry" than "Obama." Ten states? OK you got me...He should roughly win the states that Hillary won, minus Minnesota. If they dems have a chance, it's not going to be someone older than Trump. He also might be the best candidate to hasten the Blexit movement.
I just think it's primarily about personality...and to me that's not really Biden.
But to whatever degree right/left/issues can cost someone votes, I think Biden would push some liberals to a third party...but perhaps gathering moderates would offset that? I think he might struggle with the black vote more than most dems. Blexit is picking up steam and Biden is probably the only candidate for whom racism could be a label levied by the left (see his work with segregationists and his role in mass incarceration).
Biden is a liberal who appeals to moderates.
Warren is a progressive who believes in Capitalism (and she was robbed of that position in the Obama administration, she would have been perfect).
Sanders is a socialist or democratic socialist who does not believe in Capitalism and does not appeal to the largest Democratic voting bloc - blacks, esp black women.
I think that Biden and Warren would be a great ticket. They both have enormous intellect in various subjects and they would compliment each other with their specialized areas. But I have yet to make up my mind.
Julian Castro is exceptionally qualified for the job and has many policy plans but has been overlooked.
Amy Klobuchar is a moderate who I like very much. She is pragmatic.
Harris would make a kick ass AG.
Buttigieg will make an outstanding President one day.
And when it comes to socialism and Trump sticking that label on everyone, there is easy answer to that (as long as people don't campaign on really outrageous things that are not in the forefront of voters minds). If you don't like socialism, then give up Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Disability and the VA. All socialist programs. Socialized programs can exist in a democratic republic which embraces capitalism.
Those who will continue to judge according to Trump's twitter feed are lost souls and not part of the voting base that Democrats are reaching out to.
I will absolutely be watching the debate tonight and tomorrow - I think it is extremely important and any other things I need to do can be taken care of before or after or at another time. I want us to win and I want to be informed.0 -
I agree.Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick.0 -
He’s not a democrat. Look what the Repubs met happen to their party when they allowed a populist non-republican on stage and on the ballot.njnancy said:
I agree.Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick.hippiemom = goodness0 -
mrussel1 said:
Student loans and subsidies are not not the problem. It's the cost curve of education outpacing inflation is the problem. I also don't understand how one argues that subsidies drive up cost, unless you're arguing that it allows too many people to go to college, thereby driving up the cost.Jearlpam0925 said:Let's be clear about something here on student loan debt. It is on a path that goes beyond this dumb label of just stamping people with a label of "oh, you knew what you were getting into." Stop with that shit right now. I paid my loans. Do I want future generations to continue on the trajectory it's currently on? Absolutely not. "Because I did it means everyone else should do it" is terrible logic. There is a problem. It needs to be fixed as it's not sustainable. But like everything in our world - people like to pretend something isn't their problem when they're not individually attached to the issue (usually a beautifully dystopic Libertarian viewpoint).
First, they need to get rid of subsidized loans - that's #1: subsidies only drive up costs. #2 - the cost of college and higher education is no where even fucking close to what it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Hell, it's not even close to what it was 10 years ago. College is not supposed to be only an accessible benefit to the wealthy. #3 the benefit to the economy as a whole by putting more money in the wallets of the largest generation since the fucking garbage Boomers would outweigh any costs to taxpayers.
#4 - while we're on the topic of what comes out of my wallet for taxes that I don't want to pay for - I could name an endless list of shit that I'd want my money back from right now instead of helping out higher education. Namely, we all bitch about this college plan shit (even though Warren's plan taxes the ultra wealthy of the wealthies to fund this) when it's a fucking drop in the ocean to how much of our actual dollars are taken out of our actual wallets for some garbage war going on somewhere that in no way benefits us whatsoever.
Do I think higher education should be free? Not at all, but the access and opportunity should be fair and equal. And it is not right now.
Warren is by far the most qualified candidate both in experience and, more importantly, detail of policy. She should have been given the keys to the CFPB, as she was the one who started it. Where Obama completely dropped the ball was by not dropping the hammer on large bank and investment firm execs ten years ago, and if Warren was actually heading the CFPB this would have happened.
Last, no one has articulated how this loan forgiveness isn't a regressive tax. In fact the Post had a long editorial today calling it a rich kid bailout. I'll post it later, but it is.
But WHY are college costs increasing by about 2x the inflation rate? Because more people can pay for tuition because of widely available loans.
So why are loans widely available? Because they are guaranteed.
That is the subsidy driving up demand and limiting supply and causing tuition to increase roughly double the inflation rate.
If Warren or Sanders think they are going to win the presidency with another giveaway, we are looking at 4 more years. Address the problem, the hidden subsidy of guarantees.0 -
Ugh this is already annoyinghippiemom = goodness0
-
Lol...Give Peas A Chance…0 -
I don't know how you run on a platform if reducing access to universities. That's not a winner. I also think there's more to it than just subsidies. State appointed funding has been reduced in many cases and some make the case that the reduced tuition to underprivileged has passed on higher costs to full tuition students. Then there's the arguments about amenities, including targeted facilities for athletes. My guess is it's some combination of all. Subsidies and loan guarantees are a big part I'm sure.Lerxst1992 said:mrussel1 said:
Student loans and subsidies are not not the problem. It's the cost curve of education outpacing inflation is the problem. I also don't understand how one argues that subsidies drive up cost, unless you're arguing that it allows too many people to go to college, thereby driving up the cost.Jearlpam0925 said:Let's be clear about something here on student loan debt. It is on a path that goes beyond this dumb label of just stamping people with a label of "oh, you knew what you were getting into." Stop with that shit right now. I paid my loans. Do I want future generations to continue on the trajectory it's currently on? Absolutely not. "Because I did it means everyone else should do it" is terrible logic. There is a problem. It needs to be fixed as it's not sustainable. But like everything in our world - people like to pretend something isn't their problem when they're not individually attached to the issue (usually a beautifully dystopic Libertarian viewpoint).
First, they need to get rid of subsidized loans - that's #1: subsidies only drive up costs. #2 - the cost of college and higher education is no where even fucking close to what it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Hell, it's not even close to what it was 10 years ago. College is not supposed to be only an accessible benefit to the wealthy. #3 the benefit to the economy as a whole by putting more money in the wallets of the largest generation since the fucking garbage Boomers would outweigh any costs to taxpayers.
#4 - while we're on the topic of what comes out of my wallet for taxes that I don't want to pay for - I could name an endless list of shit that I'd want my money back from right now instead of helping out higher education. Namely, we all bitch about this college plan shit (even though Warren's plan taxes the ultra wealthy of the wealthies to fund this) when it's a fucking drop in the ocean to how much of our actual dollars are taken out of our actual wallets for some garbage war going on somewhere that in no way benefits us whatsoever.
Do I think higher education should be free? Not at all, but the access and opportunity should be fair and equal. And it is not right now.
Warren is by far the most qualified candidate both in experience and, more importantly, detail of policy. She should have been given the keys to the CFPB, as she was the one who started it. Where Obama completely dropped the ball was by not dropping the hammer on large bank and investment firm execs ten years ago, and if Warren was actually heading the CFPB this would have happened.
Last, no one has articulated how this loan forgiveness isn't a regressive tax. In fact the Post had a long editorial today calling it a rich kid bailout. I'll post it later, but it is.
But WHY are college costs increasing by about 2x the inflation rate? Because more people can pay for tuition because of widely available loans.
So why are loans widely available? Because they are guaranteed.
That is the subsidy driving up demand and limiting supply and causing tuition to increase roughly double the inflation rate.
If Warren or Sanders think they are going to win the presidency with another giveaway, we are looking at 4 more years. Address the problem, the hidden subsidy of guarantees.0 -
Now could he have been doing the classic.... I'm going to win so of course im headed to the convention. I won't hypothesize a scenario where I lose..Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick.0 -
That's a possibility...I just don't trust him based on his past actions. The order of the state elections are different this year so that could change things. We shall see. Hopefully everyone remembers the main objective.mrussel1 said:
Now could he have been doing the classic.... I'm going to win so of course im headed to the convention. I won't hypothesize a scenario where I lose..Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick.0 -
I don't trust him either, but if his statement was in the context of what I said, then nbd. But if it's the way H2M described, then F that guy.njnancy said:
That's a possibility...I just don't trust him based on his past actions. The order of the state elections are different this year so that could change things. We shall see. Hopefully everyone remembers the main objective.mrussel1 said:
Now could he have been doing the classic.... I'm going to win so of course im headed to the convention. I won't hypothesize a scenario where I lose..Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick.0 -
If anyone's interested, I figured I'd start a chat room for us all for the debate. Fair warning, I am stoned and not fully paying attention to things, but what the hell. Just go to https://tlk.io/pjdemsdebate and type your name and you're in!'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
.Post edited by cp3iverson on0
-
You decide.mrussel1 said:
I don't trust him either, but if his statement was in the context of what I said, then nbd. But if it's the way H2M described, then F that guy.njnancy said:
That's a possibility...I just don't trust him based on his past actions. The order of the state elections are different this year so that could change things. We shall see. Hopefully everyone remembers the main objective.mrussel1 said:
Now could he have been doing the classic.... I'm going to win so of course im headed to the convention. I won't hypothesize a scenario where I lose..Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick.
https://apple.news/AjI3RDnLbSPaEJmWcpNAzvg
Like I said, fuck him.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Candidates speaking in complete sentences? Why they not be presidenting?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Halifax2TheMax said:
You decide.mrussel1 said:
I don't trust him either, but if his statement was in the context of what I said, then nbd. But if it's the way H2M described, then F that guy.njnancy said:
That's a possibility...I just don't trust him based on his past actions. The order of the state elections are different this year so that could change things. We shall see. Hopefully everyone remembers the main objective.mrussel1 said:
Now could he have been doing the classic.... I'm going to win so of course im headed to the convention. I won't hypothesize a scenario where I lose..Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick.
https://apple.news/AjI3RDnLbSPaEJmWcpNAzvg
Like I said, fuck him.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Running for president has changed him or exposed who he really is, and his rally crowds feed his convoluted ego. Somehow it all looks kinda familiar. If he does what he did in 2016, the DNC needs to step in early. And that article makes it clear he is determined to be the winner whatever it takes. Fuck him and his bros.0 -
Look What happend when the Dems picked a safe regular Joe democrat - Hillary. Kerry, Gorecincybearcat said:
He’s not a democrat. Look what the Repubs met happen to their party when they allowed a populist non-republican on stage and on the ballot.njnancy said:
I agree.Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
When did he say this? Ive only heard the exact opposite?Halifax2TheMax said:Bernie has said that he won’t commit to the party’s eventual nominee because the system is rigged. Fuck him. Throw his ass to the curb. Disinvite him from the Dem debates. Or his ass should officially switch affiliations and agree to support the eventual nominee. Prick."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
HOW WAS CHRIS MATTHEWS?"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
-
I typed my name and all I get is this nice cloud... and I'm not even stoned (yet, lol).benjs said:If anyone's interested, I figured I'd start a chat room for us all for the debate. Fair warning, I am stoned and not fully paying attention to things, but what the hell. Just go to https://tlk.io/pjdemsdebate and type your name and you're in!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
https://youtu.be/BbGuN_ql80cThis discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.9K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110.1K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.2K Flea Market
- 39.2K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help