Skyscrapers and building are killing many birds each year.

13»

Comments

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    1000's of birds die flying into windmills...anything erected up in the sky will kill birds.  And is it only American skyscrapers that kill birds?  Making birds in other countries smarter than American birds.  What about planes? Automobiles?  
    Yes, sadly that's true also.  And house windows.  There are things that can be done to prevent that- bushes in front of windows, owl stickers in windows, etc. 

    What I'm suggesting is looking at solutions to the problem.  I'm not seeing any concern here- so far at least- about the situation.  That's just disappointing to me. 
    I have to admit I get immediately turned off when I read stats that can no way be near to true. As JasonP said, we'd notice if 1 billion birds were flying into buildings. If his number of skyscrapers was right, that is over 4000 birds, per building per day on average. Even taking the low end of the estimate of 100 million that's still over 400 a day. I think people would notice walking over a wall of dead birds when entering the building. 
    The same article later mentions some studies put the number at 90,000 in NYC. 90,000 in our biggest city seems plausible, but honestly I'm just questioning everything about this article when they lead off with the 1B number.
    So at least for me, thats why you won't see a big concern from this article. But if there is a wy to fix it, we definitely should.
    only sort of on this topic but i've always wondered where birds die. i mean in spring and summer i will see thousands of birds flying around and yet maybe once a year do i ever see a bird dead on the ground.  shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more dead on the ground? i wonder where they die.

    i've also wondered if most states have birds, and most birds fly south for the winter, wouldn't the southern states be overrun with birds in the winter? how can southern states handle almost all the countries birds during the cold months? weird things i think about...




    Easy solution for those with outdoor cats is to put a small bell on their collar.
    Why aren’t natural predators ok?

    House cats, especially in the quantity that they exist, aren't natural predators, and there is a significantly outsized effect on the bird population. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    oftenreading said:
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    1000's of birds die flying into windmills...anything erected up in the sky will kill birds.  And is it only American skyscrapers that kill birds?  Making birds in other countries smarter than American birds.  What about planes? Automobiles?  
    Yes, sadly that's true also.  And house windows.  There are things that can be done to prevent that- bushes in front of windows, owl stickers in windows, etc. 

    What I'm suggesting is looking at solutions to the problem.  I'm not seeing any concern here- so far at least- about the situation.  That's just disappointing to me. 
    I have to admit I get immediately turned off when I read stats that can no way be near to true. As JasonP said, we'd notice if 1 billion birds were flying into buildings. If his number of skyscrapers was right, that is over 4000 birds, per building per day on average. Even taking the low end of the estimate of 100 million that's still over 400 a day. I think people would notice walking over a wall of dead birds when entering the building. 
    The same article later mentions some studies put the number at 90,000 in NYC. 90,000 in our biggest city seems plausible, but honestly I'm just questioning everything about this article when they lead off with the 1B number.
    So at least for me, thats why you won't see a big concern from this article. But if there is a wy to fix it, we definitely should.
    only sort of on this topic but i've always wondered where birds die. i mean in spring and summer i will see thousands of birds flying around and yet maybe once a year do i ever see a bird dead on the ground.  shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more dead on the ground? i wonder where they die.

    i've also wondered if most states have birds, and most birds fly south for the winter, wouldn't the southern states be overrun with birds in the winter? how can southern states handle almost all the countries birds during the cold months? weird things i think about...




    Easy solution for those with outdoor cats is to put a small bell on their collar.
    Why aren’t natural predators ok?

    House cats, especially in the quantity that they exist, aren't natural predators, and there is a significantly outsized effect on the bird population. 
    You have been reading too much Garfield.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Jason P said:
    oftenreading said:
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    1000's of birds die flying into windmills...anything erected up in the sky will kill birds.  And is it only American skyscrapers that kill birds?  Making birds in other countries smarter than American birds.  What about planes? Automobiles?  
    Yes, sadly that's true also.  And house windows.  There are things that can be done to prevent that- bushes in front of windows, owl stickers in windows, etc. 

    What I'm suggesting is looking at solutions to the problem.  I'm not seeing any concern here- so far at least- about the situation.  That's just disappointing to me. 
    I have to admit I get immediately turned off when I read stats that can no way be near to true. As JasonP said, we'd notice if 1 billion birds were flying into buildings. If his number of skyscrapers was right, that is over 4000 birds, per building per day on average. Even taking the low end of the estimate of 100 million that's still over 400 a day. I think people would notice walking over a wall of dead birds when entering the building. 
    The same article later mentions some studies put the number at 90,000 in NYC. 90,000 in our biggest city seems plausible, but honestly I'm just questioning everything about this article when they lead off with the 1B number.
    So at least for me, thats why you won't see a big concern from this article. But if there is a wy to fix it, we definitely should.
    only sort of on this topic but i've always wondered where birds die. i mean in spring and summer i will see thousands of birds flying around and yet maybe once a year do i ever see a bird dead on the ground.  shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more dead on the ground? i wonder where they die.

    i've also wondered if most states have birds, and most birds fly south for the winter, wouldn't the southern states be overrun with birds in the winter? how can southern states handle almost all the countries birds during the cold months? weird things i think about...




    Easy solution for those with outdoor cats is to put a small bell on their collar.
    Why aren’t natural predators ok?

    House cats, especially in the quantity that they exist, aren't natural predators, and there is a significantly outsized effect on the bird population. 
    You have been reading too much Garfield.

    That would be an outsized effect on the lasagna population.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    1000's of birds die flying into windmills...anything erected up in the sky will kill birds.  And is it only American skyscrapers that kill birds?  Making birds in other countries smarter than American birds.  What about planes? Automobiles?  
    Yes, sadly that's true also.  And house windows.  There are things that can be done to prevent that- bushes in front of windows, owl stickers in windows, etc. 

    What I'm suggesting is looking at solutions to the problem.  I'm not seeing any concern here- so far at least- about the situation.  That's just disappointing to me. 
    I have to admit I get immediately turned off when I read stats that can no way be near to true. As JasonP said, we'd notice if 1 billion birds were flying into buildings. If his number of skyscrapers was right, that is over 4000 birds, per building per day on average. Even taking the low end of the estimate of 100 million that's still over 400 a day. I think people would notice walking over a wall of dead birds when entering the building. 
    The same article later mentions some studies put the number at 90,000 in NYC. 90,000 in our biggest city seems plausible, but honestly I'm just questioning everything about this article when they lead off with the 1B number.
    So at least for me, thats why you won't see a big concern from this article. But if there is a wy to fix it, we definitely should.
    only sort of on this topic but i've always wondered where birds die. i mean in spring and summer i will see thousands of birds flying around and yet maybe once a year do i ever see a bird dead on the ground.  shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more dead on the ground? i wonder where they die.

    i've also wondered if most states have birds, and most birds fly south for the winter, wouldn't the southern states be overrun with birds in the winter? how can southern states handle almost all the countries birds during the cold months? weird things i think about...




    Easy solution for those with outdoor cats is to put a small bell on their collar.
    Why aren’t natural predators ok?
    Yes, but are cats natural predators?  They are a domesticated animal, and even though that was first done around 10,000 years ago, the fact is, they are still domestic animals, not wild.   I don't think of cats as natural predators any more than sky scrapers!  Considering a house cat to be a natural predator is like say corporations are people.  And look where that got us! 

    Are you following my logic?  Oh good, because I think it got a bit whirlybird there somehow.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    It matters little whether a cat is a stray or has a home in which he/she is well fed...cats are predators.  Once outdoors a cats instincts take over and they become predators, but they are also prey as well.  


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,085
    brianlux said:
    cincybearcat said:
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    1000's of birds die flying into windmills...anything erected up in the sky will kill birds.  And is it only American skyscrapers that kill birds?  Making birds in other countries smarter than American birds.  What about planes? Automobiles?  
    Yes, sadly that's true also.  And house windows.  There are things that can be done to prevent that- bushes in front of windows, owl stickers in windows, etc. 

    What I'm suggesting is looking at solutions to the problem.  I'm not seeing any concern here- so far at least- about the situation.  That's just disappointing to me. 
    I have to admit I get immediately turned off when I read stats that can no way be near to true. As JasonP said, we'd notice if 1 billion birds were flying into buildings. If his number of skyscrapers was right, that is over 4000 birds, per building per day on average. Even taking the low end of the estimate of 100 million that's still over 400 a day. I think people would notice walking over a wall of dead birds when entering the building. 
    The same article later mentions some studies put the number at 90,000 in NYC. 90,000 in our biggest city seems plausible, but honestly I'm just questioning everything about this article when they lead off with the 1B number.
    So at least for me, thats why you won't see a big concern from this article. But if there is a wy to fix it, we definitely should.
    only sort of on this topic but i've always wondered where birds die. i mean in spring and summer i will see thousands of birds flying around and yet maybe once a year do i ever see a bird dead on the ground.  shouldn't there be a hell of a lot more dead on the ground? i wonder where they die.

    i've also wondered if most states have birds, and most birds fly south for the winter, wouldn't the southern states be overrun with birds in the winter? how can southern states handle almost all the countries birds during the cold months? weird things i think about...




    Easy solution for those with outdoor cats is to put a small bell on their collar.
    Why aren’t natural predators ok?
    Yes, but are cats natural predators?  They are a domesticated animal, and even though that was first done around 10,000 years ago, the fact is, they are still domestic animals, not wild.   I don't think of cats as natural predators any more than sky scrapers!  Considering a house cat to be a natural predator is like say corporations are people.  And look where that got us! 

    Are you following my logic?  Oh good, because I think it got a bit whirlybird there somehow.


    Cats, even the house variety, are considered super predators. In many cases they are also an invasive species.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,558
    edited April 2019
    People in here don't know that cats hunts birds?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 8,085
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    People in here don't know that cats hunts birds?

    People were wondering why we don't see more dead birds. The answer could be because they wind up as food
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,956
    i hate cats...and squirrels.  
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,558
    edited April 2019
    Lerxst1992 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    People in here don't know that cats hunts birds?

    People were wondering why we don't see more dead birds. The answer could be because they wind up as food
    Why do you never see pigeon babies?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    pjhawks said:
    i hate cats...and squirrels.  
    I hate birds and snakes....and mosquitos. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    People in here don't know that cats hunts birds?

    People were wondering why we don't see more dead birds. The answer could be because they wind up as food
    Why do you never see pigeon babies?
    Because they’re not out of the nest until they’re mature enough to fly?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Meltdown99 said:
    It matters little whether a cat is a stray or has a home in which he/she is well fed...cats are predators.  Once outdoors a cats instincts take over and they become predators, but they are also prey as well.  


    For sure.  I don't classify domestic cats as "natural predators" but they are for sure predatory.  And, as yo say, prey.  For both reasons why our Annie is an indoor cat.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    pjhawks said:
    i hate cats...and squirrels.  
    I'm sorry to hear that.  Maybe this will help:


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    It matters little whether a cat is a stray or has a home in which he/she is well fed...cats are predators.  Once outdoors a cats instincts take over and they become predators, but they are also prey as well.  


    For sure.  I don't classify domestic cats as "natural predators" but they are for sure predatory.  And, as yo say, prey.  For both reasons why our Annie is an indoor cat.
    Is your cat declawed?  In Ontario, many vets refuse to perform that procedure anymore.

    Personally stray cats provide a useful service...they help keep the rodent population under control.  Cannot really see them causing great loss to wild birds...only the birds that are on the ground would be potential victims...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    edited April 2019
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    It matters little whether a cat is a stray or has a home in which he/she is well fed...cats are predators.  Once outdoors a cats instincts take over and they become predators, but they are also prey as well.  


    For sure.  I don't classify domestic cats as "natural predators" but they are for sure predatory.  And, as yo say, prey.  For both reasons why our Annie is an indoor cat.
    Is your cat declawed?  In Ontario, many vets refuse to perform that procedure anymore.

    Personally stray cats provide a useful service...they help keep the rodent population under control.  Cannot really see them causing great loss to wild birds...only the birds that are on the ground would be potential victims...
    Declawed- no way!  If she were to get out, she would need them for self defense.  She isn't 100% natural, however.  She has been spayed.

    I though about getting some barn cats to keep the rodents at bay around here but didn't want too many birds killed as we do get lots of birds in low shrubs.  But good luck came our way when we discovered a family of fox in the neighborhood, the rodent population decreased quickly!
    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    So I did a little further researching and found a number of articles that confirm that as many as 988 million birds die each year from hitting windows in buildings.  What ever the real number- it's a lot, too many. 

    An Audubon article does not single out skyscrapers but, rather, refers to "structures".  Audubon suggests that besides stickers in windows, netting by windows helps as does turning off lights at night, particularly during migration season will help (something worth teaching in school so people will learn enough about nature to know when birds migrate or even are aware that they migrate). 

    Audubon also state that free-range domestic cats kill between 1.3 and 4 billion birds a year (these numbers are almost impossible to verify- the point, it is A LOT!)  Maybe consider making yours an indoor cat or attaching a bell to its collar. 


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,758
    edited April 2019
    I can believe "buildings". I was just questioning the claim that a billion birds died from hitting skyscrapers. I mean, a bird hit my own balcony door last week. Apparently it seemed intent on flying right into my fucking face. It seemed fine though. It was a robin.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Another reason to have an indoor cat:  Urban (and likely rural) coyotes eat pets!


    High-cat diet: urban coyotes feast on pets, study finds

    (Also, notice the the finicky among us, I changed the thread title to be more accurate.  You're welcome!)


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

Categories