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Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins credited with the eventual return of cassettes?

bigjilmbigjilm Sea Posts: 184
edited March 2019 in The Porch
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/23/cassettes-making-comeback-hipsters-rediscover-mix-tape/

According to the article...

"Mr Stepp (co-founder of the National Audio Company) credits the eventual return of cassettes to rock bands like Pearl Jam and The Smashing Pumpkins, who began seeking to manufacture anniversary tapes in the mid-2000s."

Did this actually happen? The only Pearl Jam cassettes I see on Discogs from the 2000s are the Momma Son reproduction in the Ten Deluxe Box Set in 2009, and 1 Vs. from Russia in 2001.  (I didn't check any of the Pumpkins releases.)  Whether you love or hate cassettes, they ARE coming back. Definitely not on the same scale as before, but they aren't completely dead as many previously thought. 

I'm sure this will turn into a "cassettes suck" discussion, but I thought it was an interesting read.  I still own, listen to, and buy cassettes.  
Post edited by bigjilm on
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    on2legson2legs Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,427
    I don’t know the answer to the question but I’m intrigued.  Why are cassettes going to make a comeback? 
    1996: Randall's Island 2  1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2  2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel  2005: Atlantic City 1  2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV)  2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4  2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2  2011: Toronto 1  2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore  2015: Central Park  2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD)  2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF)  2020: MSG | Asbury Park  2021: Asbury Park  2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville  2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore


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    bigjilmbigjilm Sea Posts: 184
    on2legs said:
    I don’t know the answer to the question but I’m intrigued.  Why are cassettes going to make a comeback? 
    Your guess is as good as mine as to why they're making a comeback.  I buy them for a couple of reasons, but the main one is pricing.  I've bought old cassettes of albums where the vinyl is entirely too expensive and I want the music.  Also, if a local band has a $6 cassette and a $20-$25 vinyl at the merch booth, I'll buy the cassette if I thought they were just ok, just to support local music.
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    CopperTomCopperTom Posts: 2,990
    Other than the Walkman, the era of cassettes, and cassettes themselves are just terrible.  The format is returning because of hipsters.
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=28
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    hihobibohihobibo Tampa, FL Posts: 1,057
    I will say that my Marylin Manson cassette of his first album sounded way better than the CD when I eventually had a car with that in it. That's the only one though. No way would I ever go back to listening to tapes over CDs or digital now. 
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    NatashapearljamfanNatashapearljamfan Australia Posts: 3,777
    We have cassette fans in the "What cassettes are you listening?" to thread....
    https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/comment/6670994#Comment_6670994
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    bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,539
    Anything to be different.
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    bigjilmbigjilm Sea Posts: 184
    Natashapearljamfan said:
    We have cassette fans in the "What cassettes are you listening?" to thread....
    https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/comment/6670994#Comment_6670994
    Cool thread. I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!
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    HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,418
    CopperTom said:
    Other than the Walkman, the era of cassettes, and cassettes themselves are just terrible.  The format is returning because of hipsters.

    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 (xx) / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24
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    angry_skullangry_skull Posts: 321
    It’s Star Lord’s fault. 
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    NatashapearljamfanNatashapearljamfan Australia Posts: 3,777
    bigjilm said:
    Natashapearljamfan said:
    We have cassette fans in the "What cassettes are you listening?" to thread....
    https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/comment/6670994#Comment_6670994
    Cool thread. I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!
    It needs to be revived...not much going on. 
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    ZodZod Posts: 10,159
    I've never forgiven cassettes and I never will. I'll never forgive them for getting chewed up in my tape decks ;(
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,934
    edited March 2019
    They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
     
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,934
    That being said, I wouldn't credit SP or PJ with revivings tapes at all. They did a couple of one off runs of old demos. Labels like Burger Records have been doing tapes for years for underground and indie bands. If anything, its Urban Outfitters that seems to be going hard at them in the mainstream.

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    MedozKMedozK Tennessee Posts: 9,209
    Natashapearljamfan said:
    bigjilm said:
    Natashapearljamfan said:
    We have cassette fans in the "What cassettes are you listening?" to thread....
    https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/comment/6670994#Comment_6670994
    Cool thread. I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!
    It needs to be revived...not much going on. 
    Yep, and thanks. Reminds me I need to take a few tapes for a spin.
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,006
    Pearl Jam should not support this waste of plastic when the world is burning. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    hrd2imgnhrd2imgn Southwest Burbs of Chicago Posts: 4,868
    what is that hissing noise I am hearing?  Is it the ocean?  a leaky tire?  Is a car window open?  OH no dolby noise reduction on, silly me.
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    SarahSarah Toronto Posts: 736
    hrd2imgn said:
    what is that hissing noise I am hearing?  Is it the ocean?  a leaky tire?  Is a car window open?  OH no dolby noise reduction on, silly me.
    Hahaha!

    Despite the hissing, I must say I have never stopped loving cassettes.
    Then again, I am 37 years old, and continued to have a cassette collection well into the age of CDs and eventually digital (.mp3s and so on...).
    If the medium comes back in a sustained way, that's great. I still have my Walkman.
    "Somewhere in between / There and here / I got lost / I got scared..."
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    Lost In OhioLost In Ohio Posts: 6,772
    One of the side projects released a cassette a couple years ago.

    Screw Urban Outfitters for many reasons, including, but not limited to their Kent State shirt.
    Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
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    deadendpdeadendp Northeast Ohio Posts: 10,434
    Lost In Ohio said:
    One of the side projects released a cassette a couple years ago.

    Screw Urban Outfitters for many reasons, including, but not limited to their Kent State shirt.
    A kid in my print class wore a shirt with a target printed on it. Above it said, "student." He wore it when the campus was over taken by news media for the 25th anniversary of the May 4th shootings. 

    My husband, not at all a hipster, has always and will always listen to cassettes. Vinyl is my thing. He has boxes and containers of cassette tapes from long ago. 
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,008
    Tim Simmons said:
    They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
     
    But aren't CDs even cheaper to make than cassettes? So the cheaper logic isn't there. 
    My guess is what others have said, being different or hip. It can't have anything to do with price. But anything non-digital is cool now. That's why when I search for albums on Amazon most digital downloads of an album cost around $10-13 and the CD is $2.99....and the CD comes with a free digital download code. But that isn't hip so I'm going to pay more money for just the download and save myself the trouble of throwing out the CD when it arrives.
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    NatashapearljamfanNatashapearljamfan Australia Posts: 3,777
    MedozK said:
    Natashapearljamfan said:
    bigjilm said:
    Natashapearljamfan said:
    We have cassette fans in the "What cassettes are you listening?" to thread....
    https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/comment/6670994#Comment_6670994
    Cool thread. I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!
    It needs to be revived...not much going on. 
    Yep, and thanks. Reminds me I need to take a few tapes for a spin.
    It's revived! 
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    JbarkerJbarker Alberta Posts: 557
    Return? Didn't know they left... My favorite album on cassette is Slow Jams '89
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,934
    edited April 2019
    mace1229 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
     
    But aren't CDs even cheaper to make than cassettes? So the cheaper logic isn't there. 
    My guess is what others have said, being different or hip. It can't have anything to do with price. But anything non-digital is cool now. That's why when I search for albums on Amazon most digital downloads of an album cost around $10-13 and the CD is $2.99....and the CD comes with a free digital download code. But that isn't hip so I'm going to pay more money for just the download and save myself the trouble of throwing out the CD when it arrives.


     Sure. But when Cassettes were seeing a resurgence in 2011-12, they were probably comparable pricewise to CDs, maybe even cheaper (CDs were still pretty popular 7-8 years ago before streaming blew it up).

    Heres a blurb from a Pitchfork piece about the first Cassette Store Day in 2013

     Speaking of vinyl, which is an expensive gamble for a small label, I like that cassettes are inexpensive. I buy them in bulk from National Audio Company in Missouri for around 50 cents each, and jewel cases are about 22 cents each. Usually I end up doing my own artwork and labels. Runs of 50 or 100 are small by any standard, but if you want to do everything, they take more time than you might think. I don’t like the word “cheap” here, but I like the situation that not having to worry about money puts me in. It’s just a cassette. I don’t feel bad about giving them away to people. Most people I don’t expect them to even listen; I doubt they have cassette players. But I’m interested in those 10 or 15 people who end up trying. Those 10 or 15 people are more interesting to me than Soundcloud plays. 

    Yes theres a hip/different aspect to it (especially now where even pop releases are seeing a Tape run), but small labels can't always make a huge investment in product.

    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,008
    Tim Simmons said:
    mace1229 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
     
    But aren't CDs even cheaper to make than cassettes? So the cheaper logic isn't there. 
    My guess is what others have said, being different or hip. It can't have anything to do with price. But anything non-digital is cool now. That's why when I search for albums on Amazon most digital downloads of an album cost around $10-13 and the CD is $2.99....and the CD comes with a free digital download code. But that isn't hip so I'm going to pay more money for just the download and save myself the trouble of throwing out the CD when it arrives.


     Sure. But when Cassettes were seeing a resurgence in 2011-12, they were probably comparable pricewise to CDs, maybe even cheaper (CDs were still pretty popular 7-8 years ago before streaming blew it up).

    Heres a blurb from a Pitchfork piece about the first Cassette Store Day in 2013

     Speaking of vinyl, which is an expensive gamble for a small label, I like that cassettes are inexpensive. I buy them in bulk from National Audio Company in Missouri for around 50 cents each, and jewel cases are about 22 cents each. Usually I end up doing my own artwork and labels. Runs of 50 or 100 are small by any standard, but if you want to do everything, they take more time than you might think. I don’t like the word “cheap” here, but I like the situation that not having to worry about money puts me in. It’s just a cassette. I don’t feel bad about giving them away to people. Most people I don’t expect them to even listen; I doubt they have cassette players. But I’m interested in those 10 or 15 people who end up trying. Those 10 or 15 people are more interesting to me than Soundcloud plays. 

    Yes theres a hip/different aspect to it (especially now where even pop releases are seeing a Tape run), but small labels can't always make a huge investment in product.

    That's actually more expensive than I would have predicted. Which makes me believe even more it isn't about cost, but nostalgia or being different. 72 cents per cassette. That is no where near as cheap as a CD. If the motivation was cost they would stick with CDs, which iare probably under 10 cents.
    The safest investment would still be CDs.
    I will never understand the resurgance of cassettes. Maybe because that was our main source pretty much through middle school for me, I was into 8-tracks for a short while because I thought they were "fun." Thats probably only because they were never my only choice.
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,934
    edited April 2019
    Can you do small runs of CDs (like less than 100?) for less than that? (IDK, I'm genuinely asking. Last I looked its about $1 per CD with case and art)

    Also, it was in comparison to vinyl. Maybe CDs don't sell, but Tapes and vinyl do. And tapes are certainly cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl.

    But again, I'm not disagreeing about coolness / uniqueness / hipness of tapes driving their resurgence. 
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
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    HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,418
    So a buddy of mine has recently gotten back into cassettes. Was talking to him about it last night and listening to him explain it almost makes sense. There is a huge nostalgia bug there as it's the format he mainly grew up with.  He says much of it though is enjoying the analog nature - the recordings themselves, battery power, no need to be plugged.  Portability, you can throw a Walkman & a cassette or two in your pocket, unlike CD's or vinyl, and you're not distracted by your phone.  And also you can find copies of stuff from the 90's on cassette for a fraction of the cost of vinyl from that decade.  I kinda get all that.
    He was big into the tape trading scene back in the 90's, especially with Pearl Jam, so that kinda rolls into the nostalgia, too.  Had a huge collection of tapes that he gave to me a number of years ago.  Unfortunately they all got ruined when the basement flooded in my old house and I had to throw them out when I moved.  Probably had about 50 or so gen 1 tapes and hundreds of others.
    I showed him the reproduction cassettes from the Ten & V/V box sets. He was telling me about some of the tracks on the Self-Pollution tape. Amazing the knowledge he retained after all these years.  Told him he almost has me convinced to buy a damn portable.  He said he'd just let me borrow one of his dozens of Walkmans (Walkmen?) he now has, lol.  He recently bought a D6C from a guy who used to work at Sony & refurbed it - sold him the player, case, strap, power cord, & an ECM-737 mic all for $350.  (If you see prices for the D6C alone on ebay, you'll understand this was a deal.)
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 (xx) / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,934
    Heh, because I tried googling production costs yesterday, I got a banner ad today for "100 CDs in a case with art for $179". Kinda funny. I get my own question from yesterday answered by an Ad today. 

    https://www.discmakers.com/products/jackets.asp?utm_campaign=GOOSRJACK&utm_source=Rmkt&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2Imiip2y4QIVkhoBCh3uyQmPEAEYASAAEgIV3fD_BwE
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    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,114
    Tim Simmons said:
    mace1229 said:
    Tim Simmons said:
    They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
     
    But aren't CDs even cheaper to make than cassettes? So the cheaper logic isn't there. 
    My guess is what others have said, being different or hip. It can't have anything to do with price. But anything non-digital is cool now. That's why when I search for albums on Amazon most digital downloads of an album cost around $10-13 and the CD is $2.99....and the CD comes with a free digital download code. But that isn't hip so I'm going to pay more money for just the download and save myself the trouble of throwing out the CD when it arrives.


     Sure. But when Cassettes were seeing a resurgence in 2011-12, they were probably comparable pricewise to CDs, maybe even cheaper (CDs were still pretty popular 7-8 years ago before streaming blew it up).

    Heres a blurb from a Pitchfork piece about the first Cassette Store Day in 2013

     Speaking of vinyl, which is an expensive gamble for a small label, I like that cassettes are inexpensive. I buy them in bulk from National Audio Company in Missouri for around 50 cents each, and jewel cases are about 22 cents each. Usually I end up doing my own artwork and labels. Runs of 50 or 100 are small by any standard, but if you want to do everything, they take more time than you might think. I don’t like the word “cheap” here, but I like the situation that not having to worry about money puts me in. It’s just a cassette. I don’t feel bad about giving them away to people. Most people I don’t expect them to even listen; I doubt they have cassette players. But I’m interested in those 10 or 15 people who end up trying. Those 10 or 15 people are more interesting to me than Soundcloud plays. 

    Yes theres a hip/different aspect to it (especially now where even pop releases are seeing a Tape run), but small labels can't always make a huge investment in product.



    Resisted streaming for a long time, recently decided to give apple a try.

    Oh to  relive the day I discovered they have hundreds of PJ bootlegs on there. S boy in a candy store! I get the nostalgia of cassettes, but to download a show on my iPod , that's a pretty good fringe benefit (the primary reason was never having to sync again, ugh the horrors of syncing).

    And the 45 million songs 
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,934
    No doubt.
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