Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins credited with the eventual return of cassettes?

Natashapearljamfan

MedozK said:

Natashapearljamfan said:

bigjilm said:

Natashapearljamfan said:

We have cassette fans in the "What cassettes are you listening?" to thread....
https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/comment/6670994#Comment_6670994

Cool thread. I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!

It needs to be revived...not much going on. 

Yep, and thanks. Reminds me I need to take a few tapes for a spin.

It's revived! 

Jbarker

Return? Didn't know they left... My favorite album on cassette is Slow Jams '89

Tim Simmons

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
 

But aren't CDs even cheaper to make than cassettes? So the cheaper logic isn't there. 
My guess is what others have said, being different or hip. It can't have anything to do with price. But anything non-digital is cool now. That's why when I search for albums on Amazon most digital downloads of an album cost around $10-13 and the CD is $2.99....and the CD comes with a free digital download code. But that isn't hip so I'm going to pay more money for just the download and save myself the trouble of throwing out the CD when it arrives.

 Sure. But when Cassettes were seeing a resurgence in 2011-12, they were probably comparable pricewise to CDs, maybe even cheaper (CDs were still pretty popular 7-8 years ago before streaming blew it up).

Heres a blurb from a Pitchfork piece about the first Cassette Store Day in 2013

 Speaking of vinyl, which is an expensive gamble for a small label, I like that cassettes are inexpensive. I buy them in bulk from National Audio Company in Missouri for around 50 cents each, and jewel cases are about 22 cents each. Usually I end up doing my own artwork and labels. Runs of 50 or 100 are small by any standard, but if you want to do everything, they take more time than you might think. I don’t like the word “cheap” here, but I like the situation that not having to worry about money puts me in. It’s just a cassette. I don’t feel bad about giving them away to people. Most people I don’t expect them to even listen; I doubt they have cassette players. But I’m interested in those 10 or 15 people who end up trying. Those 10 or 15 people are more interesting to me than Soundcloud plays. 

Yes theres a hip/different aspect to it (especially now where even pop releases are seeing a Tape run), but small labels can't always make a huge investment in product.

mace1229

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
 

But aren't CDs even cheaper to make than cassettes? So the cheaper logic isn't there. 
My guess is what others have said, being different or hip. It can't have anything to do with price. But anything non-digital is cool now. That's why when I search for albums on Amazon most digital downloads of an album cost around $10-13 and the CD is $2.99....and the CD comes with a free digital download code. But that isn't hip so I'm going to pay more money for just the download and save myself the trouble of throwing out the CD when it arrives.

 Sure. But when Cassettes were seeing a resurgence in 2011-12, they were probably comparable pricewise to CDs, maybe even cheaper (CDs were still pretty popular 7-8 years ago before streaming blew it up).

Heres a blurb from a Pitchfork piece about the first Cassette Store Day in 2013

 Speaking of vinyl, which is an expensive gamble for a small label, I like that cassettes are inexpensive. I buy them in bulk from National Audio Company in Missouri for around 50 cents each, and jewel cases are about 22 cents each. Usually I end up doing my own artwork and labels. Runs of 50 or 100 are small by any standard, but if you want to do everything, they take more time than you might think. I don’t like the word “cheap” here, but I like the situation that not having to worry about money puts me in. It’s just a cassette. I don’t feel bad about giving them away to people. Most people I don’t expect them to even listen; I doubt they have cassette players. But I’m interested in those 10 or 15 people who end up trying. Those 10 or 15 people are more interesting to me than Soundcloud plays. 

Yes theres a hip/different aspect to it (especially now where even pop releases are seeing a Tape run), but small labels can't always make a huge investment in product.

That's actually more expensive than I would have predicted. Which makes me believe even more it isn't about cost, but nostalgia or being different. 72 cents per cassette. That is no where near as cheap as a CD. If the motivation was cost they would stick with CDs, which iare probably under 10 cents.
The safest investment would still be CDs.
I will never understand the resurgance of cassettes. Maybe because that was our main source pretty much through middle school for me, I was into 8-tracks for a short while because I thought they were "fun." Thats probably only because they were never my only choice.

Tim Simmons

Can you do small runs of CDs (like less than 100?) for less than that? (IDK, I'm genuinely asking. Last I looked its about $1 per CD with case and art)

Also, it was in comparison to vinyl. Maybe CDs don't sell, but Tapes and vinyl do. And tapes are certainly cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl.

But again, I'm not disagreeing about coolness / uniqueness / hipness of tapes driving their resurgence. 

HesCalledDyer

So a buddy of mine has recently gotten back into cassettes. Was talking to him about it last night and listening to him explain it almost makes sense. There is a huge nostalgia bug there as it's the format he mainly grew up with.  He says much of it though is enjoying the analog nature - the recordings themselves, battery power, no need to be plugged.  Portability, you can throw a Walkman & a cassette or two in your pocket, unlike CD's or vinyl, and you're not distracted by your phone.  And also you can find copies of stuff from the 90's on cassette for a fraction of the cost of vinyl from that decade.  I kinda get all that.

He was big into the tape trading scene back in the 90's, especially with Pearl Jam, so that kinda rolls into the nostalgia, too.  Had a huge collection of tapes that he gave to me a number of years ago.  Unfortunately they all got ruined when the basement flooded in my old house and I had to throw them out when I moved.  Probably had about 50 or so gen 1 tapes and hundreds of others.

I showed him the reproduction cassettes from the Ten & V/V box sets. He was telling me about some of the tracks on the Self-Pollution tape. Amazing the knowledge he retained after all these years.  Told him he almost has me convinced to buy a damn portable.  He said he'd just let me borrow one of his dozens of Walkmans (Walkmen?) he now has, lol.  He recently bought a D6C from a guy who used to work at Sony & refurbed it - sold him the player, case, strap, power cord, & an ECM-737 mic all for $350.  (If you see prices for the D6C alone on ebay, you'll understand this was a deal.)

Tim Simmons

Heh, because I tried googling production costs yesterday, I got a banner ad today for "100 CDs in a case with art for $179". Kinda funny. I get my own question from yesterday answered by an Ad today. 

https://www.discmakers.com/products/jackets.asp?utm_campaign=GOOSRJACK&utm_source=Rmkt&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2Imiip2y4QIVkhoBCh3uyQmPEAEYASAAEgIV3fD_BwE

Lerxst1992

Tim Simmons said:

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

They came back because they are cheaper and quicker to manufacture than vinyl for many small independent acts. Its mainly nostalgia driven. For a period 4-5 years ago, it was hipster driven. But now it seems like millenials and even the next generation seeking them out as weird artifacts from a bygone era. I don't think they'll have the staying power that vinyl seems to have gotten in the past decade+, but I'm all about bands being able to make more income and having more tangible music out there.
 

But aren't CDs even cheaper to make than cassettes? So the cheaper logic isn't there. 
My guess is what others have said, being different or hip. It can't have anything to do with price. But anything non-digital is cool now. That's why when I search for albums on Amazon most digital downloads of an album cost around $10-13 and the CD is $2.99....and the CD comes with a free digital download code. But that isn't hip so I'm going to pay more money for just the download and save myself the trouble of throwing out the CD when it arrives.

 Sure. But when Cassettes were seeing a resurgence in 2011-12, they were probably comparable pricewise to CDs, maybe even cheaper (CDs were still pretty popular 7-8 years ago before streaming blew it up).

Heres a blurb from a Pitchfork piece about the first Cassette Store Day in 2013

 Speaking of vinyl, which is an expensive gamble for a small label, I like that cassettes are inexpensive. I buy them in bulk from National Audio Company in Missouri for around 50 cents each, and jewel cases are about 22 cents each. Usually I end up doing my own artwork and labels. Runs of 50 or 100 are small by any standard, but if you want to do everything, they take more time than you might think. I don’t like the word “cheap” here, but I like the situation that not having to worry about money puts me in. It’s just a cassette. I don’t feel bad about giving them away to people. Most people I don’t expect them to even listen; I doubt they have cassette players. But I’m interested in those 10 or 15 people who end up trying. Those 10 or 15 people are more interesting to me than Soundcloud plays. 

Yes theres a hip/different aspect to it (especially now where even pop releases are seeing a Tape run), but small labels can't always make a huge investment in product.

Resisted streaming for a long time, recently decided to give apple a try.

Oh to  relive the day I discovered they have hundreds of PJ bootlegs on there. S boy in a candy store! I get the nostalgia of cassettes, but to download a show on my iPod , that's a pretty good fringe benefit (the primary reason was never having to sync again, ugh the horrors of syncing).

And the 45 million songs 

Tim Simmons

No doubt.