I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Tired and faulty argument. And you know it.
Sure, care to explain how that doesn't support Dyer's argument? Instead of your normal strategy of saying unsubstantiated idiotic shit, try providing some supporting argument? Why didn't Dave A go on to do anything meaningful besides jail time if he was the force behind PJ? Make an argument rather than trolling...once..please? Give it a try genius.
Why would I respond to someone describing me and talking to me like you do in your post? Answer that. Give it a try with all of your condescending.
Then how about you just STFU and not reply to my posts? Try that for a strategy if you don't want me to come back at you. Instead you just day dumb shit that makes you look worse. Are you a sado or something?
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Tired and faulty argument. And you know it.
Sure, care to explain how that doesn't support Dyer's argument? Instead of your normal strategy of saying unsubstantiated idiotic shit, try providing some supporting argument? Why didn't Dave A go on to do anything meaningful besides jail time if he was the force behind PJ? Make an argument rather than trolling...once..please? Give it a try genius.
Why would I respond to someone describing me and talking to me like you do in your post? Answer that. Give it a try with all of your condescending.
Then how about you just STFU and not reply to my posts? Try that for a strategy if you don't want me to come back at you. Instead you just day dumb shit that makes you look worse. Are you a sado or something?
You're still being awfully condescending there buddy.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Tired and faulty argument. And you know it.
Sure, care to explain how that doesn't support Dyer's argument? Instead of your normal strategy of saying unsubstantiated idiotic shit, try providing some supporting argument? Why didn't Dave A go on to do anything meaningful besides jail time if he was the force behind PJ? Make an argument rather than trolling...once..please? Give it a try genius.
Why would I respond to someone describing me and talking to me like you do in your post? Answer that. Give it a try with all of your condescending.
Then how about you just STFU and not reply to my posts? Try that for a strategy if you don't want me to come back at you. Instead you just day dumb shit that makes you look worse. Are you a sado or something?
You're still being awfully condescending there buddy.
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Tired and faulty argument. And you know it.
Sure, care to explain how that doesn't support Dyer's argument? Instead of your normal strategy of saying unsubstantiated idiotic shit, try providing some supporting argument? Why didn't Dave A go on to do anything meaningful besides jail time if he was the force behind PJ? Make an argument rather than trolling...once..please? Give it a try genius.
Why would I respond to someone describing me and talking to me like you do in your post? Answer that. Give it a try with all of your condescending.
Then how about you just STFU and not reply to my posts? Try that for a strategy if you don't want me to come back at you. Instead you just day dumb shit that makes you look worse. Are you a sado or something?
You're still being awfully condescending there buddy.
I'm not attempting not to be.
Seems very unnecessary, I must say.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Tired and faulty argument. And you know it.
Sure, care to explain how that doesn't support Dyer's argument? Instead of your normal strategy of saying unsubstantiated idiotic shit, try providing some supporting argument? Why didn't Dave A go on to do anything meaningful besides jail time if he was the force behind PJ? Make an argument rather than trolling...once..please? Give it a try genius.
Why would I respond to someone describing me and talking to me like you do in your post? Answer that. Give it a try with all of your condescending.
Then how about you just STFU and not reply to my posts? Try that for a strategy if you don't want me to come back at you. Instead you just day dumb shit that makes you look worse. Are you a sado or something?
You're still being awfully condescending there buddy.
I'm not attempting not to be.
Seems very unnecessary, I must say.
As was your comment to my statement about Grohl, which you still haven't defended with any additional information. Why is the argument tired and faulty and why do you think I know it?
Dave is literally going off the cuff to put something of his in the music that you may have never noticed before. So don't give me this bullshit that Dave A has no awareness. Watch the whole Porch solo. The man could JAM, then go back into the shit like nothing happened. To throw a shot out there, he didn't need a fucking drum solo... he WAS a fucking drum solo.
Who in this thread anywhere said Dave has no awareness of playing the drums.
You, actually.
"Good drummer. Decent dude. Poorly self aware."
I like how with all the information I provided, you decided to lock in on that comment.
Gotta love the internet and it's selective hearing.
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Grohl’s success after Nirvana had as much to do with his drumming as Nirvana’s success, virtually 0.
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Grohl’s success after Nirvana had as much to do with his drumming as Nirvana’s success, virtually 0.
The point is that he was no unique talent.. Grohl has talent.
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Grohl’s success after Nirvana had as much to do with his drumming as Nirvana’s success, virtually 0.
The point is that he was no unique talent.. Grohl has talent.
100% agree. Pearl jam didn’t get huge because of Dave, foo get enormously popular because of Grohl.
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Grohl’s success after Nirvana had as much to do with his drumming as Nirvana’s success, virtually 0.
The point is that he was no unique talent.. Grohl has talent.
.Nirvana was popular because the songs Kurt wrote, without the reputation as a super human live act.
PJ had great songs of course, but a lot of their early popularity stemmed from their reputation as a live act and Dave A helped feed that as much as any drummer could. Don’t think it’s fair to dismiss his abilities as a drummer because he didn’t go onto write and record albums on his own or even that he didn’t drum in another successful band.
On the other hand, when people act like either Dave is a world class drummer I have to roll my eyes a bit.
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Grohl’s success after Nirvana had as much to do with his drumming as Nirvana’s success, virtually 0.
The point is that he was no unique talent.. Grohl has talent.
.Nirvana was popular because the songs Kurt wrote, without the reputation as a super human live act.
PJ had great songs of course, but a lot of their early popularity stemmed from their reputation as a live act and Dave A helped feed that as much as any drummer could. Don’t think it’s fair to dismiss his abilities as a drummer because he didn’t go onto write and record albums on his own or even that he didn’t drum in another successful band.
On the other hand, when people act like either Dave is a world class drummer I have to roll my eyes a bit.
I don't know if I totally agree that a lot of their early popularity was from live shows. They were very difficult to see, if you remember, as they went from the club to the stadium to the boycott in a blink. The studio stuff was pretty damn big. I can only speak for me and say that it was difficult for me to see them in the mid to late 90's. I went 94 to 2000 without, as they never really came near Tampa where I was, and I wasn't in a position to travel for shows. Regardless, I'm not dumping on Dave as a drummer, rather agreeing with Dyer that there is no way he is THE reason PJ was so popular. If he had that level of pop music talent, it would have materialized in another band, act, something.
Not to derail the thread, but... it derailed a long time ago. Some perspectivethen...
Hard to believe that we’re talking 25-26 years ago now, but PJ’s music and Dave A’s playing and meant a lot to me as a young drummer. So did Matt Cameron in Soundgarden. When Dave left (I didn’t care why at the time, still don’t), I enjoyed Jack’s style and learned his parts. Equally as unique as Dave A and as good a fit in the band for the period he was involved.
Matt Cameron was the only drummer that was built to last in PJ. Simply put, he checks every box. He’s a pro, can play 3+ hour shows, can stay on point with an incredibly deep catalog that might vary completely from one night to the next, and... most importantly, he’s more than a drummer. He’s a multi-instrumentalist, singer and songwriter. PJ have needed this more and more from him over the years.
Now, all those things can be true and some will still prefer Dave, or Jack. Some like salt on their French fries, others ketchup, or hot sauce. None are better or worse than the other, just different. We’re allowed to have our own preferences. I think others have said this, but the worst “best” should probably be replaced with “favorite” in the English language. We do the best thing too much.
Now, to the comment that Dave A’s talent should have led to further commercial success or recognition later in his career... wow... where to start. First, that is incredibly rare for any musician, especially for a drummer, especially when they are associated with as popular an act as PJ was at that time. And Grohl is a bad example - he’s a full on frontman - singer, songwriter and rhythm guitarist now and has been since he did the first Foos demo entirely by himself . Moving on from being “the former Pearl Jam drummer” would be a tough thing, even without the personnel problems Abbruzzeze has had. But still, the music industry doesn’t often allow people to change course or overcome their reputation.
Even Carter Beauford, of DMB fame, and by most metrics as good a drummer as you can be and vital to his group’s success and sound, couldn’t walk away from that band and start another with any kind of certainty that it would mean anything anything. A group’s success depends on so much more than their individual or collective “talent”. And this is even more true now than it was when PJ rose to fame.
Now that that’s out of the way, I’ll join the OP and the couple others who want to say thanks to Dave. Thank you for the role that you played and the inspiration that you were and that the music continues to be. Absolutely one of my favorite drummers, ever.
Dave is literally going off the cuff to put something of his in the music that you may have never noticed before. So don't give me this bullshit that Dave A has no awareness. Watch the whole Porch solo. The man could JAM, then go back into the shit like nothing happened. To throw a shot out there, he didn't need a fucking drum solo... he WAS a fucking drum solo.
Who in this thread anywhere said Dave has no awareness of playing the drums.
You, actually.
"Good drummer. Decent dude. Poorly self aware."
I like how with all the information I provided, you decided to lock in on that comment.
Gotta love the internet and it's selective hearing.
Imagine reading that as three sentences. Because that is what they are. One about drumming. One about his personality. One about his utter lack of knowing himself and how he fit into a band as its third drummer.
I locked into that comment because it seemed possible that you completely misread it, and alas you did. I could have harped on the other information but it boils down to the same arguments I have had with other Dave sycophants over the years.
You are right, gotta love the internet and its selective "hearing". It usually begins with reading comprehension.
I have no issue with his drumming at all. But when people claim - as they did in that one thread that got shut down a couple years ago - that he is THE reason for all of Pearl Jam’s success, I laugh hysterically.
Right, if that were true he would have gone and started another band that was at least equally as successful. Alas, Dave Grohl he is not.
Grohl’s success after Nirvana had as much to do with his drumming as Nirvana’s success, virtually 0.
The point is that he was no unique talent.. Grohl has talent.
.Nirvana was popular because the songs Kurt wrote, without the reputation as a super human live act.
PJ had great songs of course, but a lot of their early popularity stemmed from their reputation as a live act and Dave A helped feed that as much as any drummer could. Don’t think it’s fair to dismiss his abilities as a drummer because he didn’t go onto write and record albums on his own or even that he didn’t drum in another successful band.
On the other hand, when people act like either Dave is a world class drummer I have to roll my eyes a bit.
I don't know if I totally agree that a lot of their early popularity was from live shows. They were very difficult to see, if you remember, as they went from the club to the stadium to the boycott in a blink. The studio stuff was pretty damn big. I can only speak for me and say that it was difficult for me to see them in the mid to late 90's. I went 94 to 2000 without, as they never really came near Tampa where I was, and I wasn't in a position to travel for shows. Regardless, I'm not dumping on Dave as a drummer, rather agreeing with Dyer that there is no way he is THE reason PJ was so popular. If he had that level of pop music talent, it would have materialized in another band, act, something.
They were only hard to see for a very short time when they tried to use non TM venues and that came after the Dave years and I’d say even that’s overstated. I think it more of a pain for them and their tour planning than for fans to get tickets.
I can’t speak for absolutely everyone and maybe it’s all been revisionist history but there are tons of fans that were drawn in by the early live shows. I’d go so far as to say that the glut of their popularity has come from their live shows and their live reputation through the years.
0
KV4053
Mike's side, crushed up against the stage Posts: 1,436
And when I say dry, I'm talking nun levels of dry.
You dislike the man because of his use of cymbals? Really?
Matts 'time signatures'?
The real difference between the two, given the sample size we have, is Abruzzese was able to bring the music up through Eddies voice. He knew when to pull back and let Ed shine, but he also knew when to beat the shit out of the drums and destroy a Snare like it owed him money. This became more apparent in the Vs. era when we got songs like Daughter and Small Town. This cymbal argument is stupid. Dave used the cymbals to keep his timing of the more fast paced songs better and accent parts of the song. The first couple of times he played with the band, all of that shit was ad-libbed as he had to figure out his groove with PJ.
Everything Dave is doing with the splash (the smallest and most high pitched cymbal) from 1:24-2:00 is to keep time and accent. From 2:00-2:14 he pulls back on the splash accenting because he is anticipating the end of the Mikes mini solo. He then transitions his accenting to the China and other symbols. All of those are basically mini fills. Dave is literally going off the cuff to put something of his in the music that you may have never noticed before. So don't give me this bullshit that Dave A has no awareness. Watch the whole Porch solo. The man could JAM, then go back into the shit like nothing happened. To throw a shot out there, he didn't need a fucking drum solo... he WAS a fucking drum solo.
I have absolutely no problem with MFC at all. But some of you have been listening to Ed for so long that you think you were also there that day that Abbruzzese supposedly said he quit. The funny thing is, the people saying MC is the best drummer for PJ just to slight Dave A are probably the same people who would tell you PJ isn't even Matt Camerons best work.
In the grand scheme of things, whats the point of arguing over this? We've literally had a vast spectrum of PJ drummers over different decades and eras. And if you ask me, each drummer we've gotten to meet has been perfect for the era they served in, and if it was any other way there would be a glitch in the matrix. If Dave A stayed behind the skins for PJ from 1991 to eternity, we would be so bored here we would have threads entitled "what if TOTD truly became Pearl Jam and Matt Cameron stayed behind the drum set?" The grass is always greener....
This is a well-informed technical response which I appreciate. However, I still hate the symbols.
I know I was born and I know that I'll die. The in between is mine.
If you look back at the live shows with Dave A, he is almost battling Eddie for the spotlight. Those shows are almost all focused on the drums and vocals. They really brought out the best in each other and the intensity is what attracted most people to their live shows in the early days. My theory is that you had two equally talented musicians, crushing it every night and Eddie didn’t want to share the spotlight. Not going to be popular on this forum but that is probably why Dave A got fired. Too bad they didn’t use healthy competition to take their craft to the next level. Doesn’t mean I’m not a huge fan of Matt Cameron....he’s a pro’s pro.
If you look back at the live shows with Dave A, he is almost battling Eddie for the spotlight. Those shows are almost all focused on the drums and vocals. They really brought out the best in each other and the intensity is what attracted most people to their live shows in the early days. My theory is that you had two equally talented musicians, crushing it every night and Eddie didn’t want to share the spotlight. Not going to be popular on this forum but that is probably why Dave A got fired. Too bad they didn’t use healthy competition to take their craft to the next level.
If you look back at the live shows with Dave A, he is almost battling Eddie for the spotlight. Those shows are almost all focused on the drums and vocals. They really brought out the best in each other and the intensity is what attracted most people to their live shows in the early days. My theory is that you had two equally talented musicians, crushing it every night and Eddie didn’t want to share the spotlight. Not going to be popular on this forum but that is probably why Dave A got fired. Too bad they didn’t use healthy competition to take their craft to the next level.
Lol
Right?! Now I’ve heard it all. Dave got fired cuz Ed was jealous of Dave grabbing the spotlight. Glad I wasn’t swallowing a drink when I read that!
If you look back at the live shows with Dave A, he is almost battling Eddie for the spotlight. Those shows are almost all focused on the drums and vocals. They really brought out the best in each other and the intensity is what attracted most people to their live shows in the early days. My theory is that you had two equally talented musicians, crushing it every night and Eddie didn’t want to share the spotlight. Not going to be popular on this forum but that is probably why Dave A got fired. Too bad they didn’t use healthy competition to take their craft to the next level. Doesn’t mean I’m not a huge fan of Matt Cameron....he’s a pro’s pro.
If you look back at the live shows with Dave A, he is almost battling Eddie for the spotlight. Those shows are almost all focused on the drums and vocals. They really brought out the best in each other and the intensity is what attracted most people to their live shows in the early days. My theory is that you had two equally talented musicians, crushing it every night and Eddie didn’t want to share the spotlight. Not going to be popular on this forum but that is probably why Dave A got fired. Too bad they didn’t use healthy competition to take their craft to the next level. Doesn’t mean I’m not a huge fan of Matt Cameron....he’s a pro’s pro.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
If you look back at the live shows with Dave A, he is almost battling Eddie for the spotlight. Those shows are almost all focused on the drums and vocals. They really brought out the best in each other and the intensity is what attracted most people to their live shows in the early days. My theory is that you had two equally talented musicians, crushing it every night and Eddie didn’t want to share the spotlight. Not going to be popular on this forum but that is probably why Dave A got fired. Too bad they didn’t use healthy competition to take their craft to the next level. Doesn’t mean I’m not a huge fan of Matt Cameron....he’s a pro’s pro.
You must be high. Equally talented? Free speech, it’s a hell of a drug.
This show is fire, they only played like one or two slow songs lol. No Black or Alive. Garden/Footsteps combo is killer and Satan’s Bed is played for only the second time ever. Back then it was called “In Love Already”. Sonic Reducer is great as well, the band is just tenacious here. What more can you say.
Worcester1 13, Worcester2 13, Hartford 13, San Diego 13, Los Angeles1 13, Los Angeles2 13 Trieste 14, Vienna 14, Gdynia 14, Leeds 14, Milton Keynes 14, Denver 14 Central Park 15 Fort Lauderdale 16, Miami 16, Tampa 16, Jacksonville 16, Greenville 16, Hampton 16, Columbia 16, Lexington 16, Philly1 16, Philly2 16, NYC1 16, NYC2 16, Quebec City 16, Ottawa 16, Toronto1 16, Toronto2 16, Fenway1 16, Fenway2 16, Wrigley1 16, Wrigley2 16
This show is fire, they only played like one or two slow songs lol. No Black or Alive. Garden/Footsteps combo is killer and Satan’s Bed is played for only the second time ever. Back then it was called “In Love Already”. Sonic Reducer is great as well, the band is just tenacious here. What more can you say.
Satan's Bed never went by another name, those are just poorly mislabeled illicit unofficial bootlegs.
Eddies says "This song's called Already in Love" right before they play it at 1:06:33
Ed quips a LOT of things all the time into a microphone. He started off with saying my favorite line in this next is I'm Already in Love in response to the girl in the crowd constantly screeching I love you at him earlier.
Comments
"Good drummer. Decent dude. Poorly self aware."
I like how with all the information I provided, you decided to lock in on that comment.
Gotta love the internet and it's selective hearing.
Salzburg I think
Jack is a monster on the drums
It's just perfect..
i wish i wish i wish i wish, i guess it never stops
PJ had great songs of course, but a lot of their early popularity stemmed from their reputation as a live act and Dave A helped feed that as much as any drummer could. Don’t think it’s fair to dismiss his abilities as a drummer because he didn’t go onto write and record albums on his own or even that he didn’t drum in another successful band.
On the other hand, when people act like either Dave is a world class drummer I have to roll my eyes a bit.
Regardless, I'm not dumping on Dave as a drummer, rather agreeing with Dyer that there is no way he is THE reason PJ was so popular. If he had that level of pop music talent, it would have materialized in another band, act, something.
Hard to believe that we’re talking 25-26 years ago now, but PJ’s music and Dave A’s playing and meant a lot to me as a young drummer. So did Matt Cameron in Soundgarden. When Dave left (I didn’t care why at the time, still don’t), I enjoyed Jack’s style and learned his parts. Equally as unique as Dave A and as good a fit in the band for the period he was involved.
Matt Cameron was the only drummer that was built to last in PJ. Simply put, he checks every box. He’s a pro, can play 3+ hour shows, can stay on point with an incredibly deep catalog that might vary completely from one night to the next, and... most importantly, he’s more than a drummer. He’s a multi-instrumentalist, singer and songwriter. PJ have needed this more and more from him over the years.
Now, all those things can be true and some will still prefer Dave, or Jack. Some like salt on their French fries, others ketchup, or hot sauce. None are better or worse than the other, just different. We’re allowed to have our own preferences. I think others have said this, but the worst “best” should probably be replaced with “favorite” in the English language. We do the best thing too much.
Now, to the comment that Dave A’s talent should have led to further commercial success or recognition later in his career... wow... where to start. First, that is incredibly rare for any musician, especially for a drummer, especially when they are associated with as popular an act as PJ was at that time. And Grohl is a bad example - he’s a full on frontman - singer, songwriter and rhythm guitarist now and has been since he did the first Foos demo entirely by himself . Moving on from being “the former Pearl Jam drummer” would be a tough thing, even without the personnel problems Abbruzzeze has had. But still, the music industry doesn’t often allow people to change course or overcome their reputation.
Even Carter Beauford, of DMB fame, and by most metrics as good a drummer as you can be and vital to his group’s success and sound, couldn’t walk away from that band and start another with any kind of certainty that it would mean anything anything. A group’s success depends on so much more than their individual or collective “talent”. And this is even more true now than it was when PJ rose to fame.
Now that that’s out of the way, I’ll join the OP and the couple others who want to say thanks to Dave. Thank you for the role that you played and the inspiration that you were and that the music continues to be. Absolutely one of my favorite drummers, ever.
I locked into that comment because it seemed possible that you completely misread it, and alas you did. I could have harped on the other information but it boils down to the same arguments I have had with other Dave sycophants over the years.
You are right, gotta love the internet and its selective "hearing". It usually begins with reading comprehension.
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652
I can’t speak for absolutely everyone and maybe it’s all been revisionist history but there are tons of fans that were drawn in by the early live shows. I’d go so far as to say that the glut of their popularity has come from their live shows and their live reputation through the years.
Jack Irons is equally great but completely different
imo
🙂
1. Irons (95-spring 98 are some of my favorite shows)
2. matt
3. dave
https://youtu.be/uUJqQHY1As8
This show is fire, they only played like one or two slow songs lol. No Black or Alive. Garden/Footsteps combo is killer and Satan’s Bed is played for only the second time ever. Back then it was called “In Love Already”. Sonic Reducer is great as well, the band is just tenacious here. What more can you say.
Trieste 14, Vienna 14, Gdynia 14, Leeds 14, Milton Keynes 14, Denver 14
Central Park 15
Fort Lauderdale 16, Miami 16, Tampa 16, Jacksonville 16, Greenville 16, Hampton 16, Columbia 16, Lexington 16, Philly1 16, Philly2 16, NYC1 16, NYC2 16, Quebec City 16, Ottawa 16, Toronto1 16, Toronto2 16, Fenway1 16, Fenway2 16, Wrigley1 16, Wrigley2 16
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652