Meltdown99 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Two years.  Let's land the plane already.  It can't be that complicated.

They are lawyers.  Lawyers are masters of milking the system...

Gern Blansten said:

my2hands said:

Frankly, the establishment and aligned intelligence services actively working to prevent someone like Trump from becoming POTUS is hardly "far out conspiracy"

To think differently is a naive in my opinion

But he is the POTUS

bootlegger10 said:

Two years.  Let's land the plane already.  It can't be that complicated.

dignin said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

brianlux said:

Here, for example, is the latest take on this whole mess from James Howard Kunstler.  Now, I'll be the first to admit that Mr. Kunstler is not always correct in his summation of various matters of which he writes.  However, what he does do is present plausible alternatives to party-line reactions that many of us latch on to in hopes of seeing Trump derailed- and that is understandable, but I do believe often impetuous.

"Watergate had tragic Shakespearean overtones, with Nixon as King Lear, but Russia-Gate — perhaps the last gate America goes through on its giant slalom run to collapse — is but a Chinese Fire Drill writ large. The reason? In 1973, we were still a serious people. Today, the most lavishly credentialed elite in history believe the most preposterous “stories,” or, surely even worse, pretend to believe them for political advantage.

Now, an epic battle of wills is setting up as Robert Mueller’s investigation concludes its business and its primary target, the Golden Golem of Greatness, girds his loins to push back. Behind the flimsy scrim of Russia collusion accusations stands a bewildering maze of criminal mischief by a matrix of federal agencies that lost control of their own dark operation to meddle in the 2016 election. The US intel community (CIA, NSA, FBI, etc), with the Department of Justice, all colluded with the Hillary Clinton campaign and the intel agencies of the UK and Australia, to derail Mr. Trump as a stooge of Russia and, when he shocked them by getting elected, mounted a desperate campaign to cover their asses knowing he had become their boss. The Obama White House was involved in all this, attempting to cloak itself in plausible deniability, which may be unwinding now, too. How might all this play out from here?

One big mystery is how long will Mr. Trump wait to declassify any number of secret files, memoranda, and communications that he’s been sitting on for months. My guess is that this stuff amounts to a potent weapon against his adversaries and he will wait until Mr. Mueller releases a final report before declassifying it. Then, we’ll have a fine constitutional crisis as the two sides vie for some sort of adjudication. Who, for instance, will adjudicate the monkey business that is already on-the-record involving misdeeds in the Department of Justice itself? Will the DOJ split into two contesting camps, each charging the other? How might that work? Does the Acting Attorney General Mr. Whitaker seek indictments against figures such as Bruce Ohr, Andrew McCabe, Peter Strzok, et al. Will he also rope in intel cowboys John Brennan and James Clapper? Might Hillary find herself in jeopardy — all the while on the other side Mr. Mueller pursues his targets, characters like Mr. Manafort, Michael Cohen, and the hapless Carter Page?

Or might Mr. Mueller, and others, possibly find themselves in trouble, as spearheads of a bad-faith campaign to weaponize government agencies against a sitting president? That might sound outlandish, but the evidence is adding up. In fact the evidence of a Deep State gone rogue is far more compelling than any charges Mr. Mueller has so far produced on Trump-Russia “collusion.” An example of bad faith is former FBI Director James Comey’s current campaign to avoid testifying in closed session before the House Judiciary and Oversight committees — he filed a motion just before Thanksgiving. Mr. Comey is pretending that an open session would be “transparent.” His claim is mendacious. If he were questioned about classified matters in an open session, he would do exactly what he did before in open session: decline to answer about “sensitive” matters on the basis of national security. He could make no such claims in a closed session. The truth is, his attorneys are trying to run out the clock on the current composition of the house committees, which will come under a Democrat majority in January, so that Mr. Comey can avoid testifying altogether.

There are other dicey matters awaiting some kind of adjudication elsewhere. For instance, who is going to review the chain of decisions among the FISA judges who approved of warrants made in bad faith to spy on US citizens? Perhaps the shrinking violet, Mr. Huber, out in the Utah Prosecutor’s Office of the DOJ, is looking into all that. He’s been at something for most of the year (nobody knows what). He has to answer to Mr. Whitaker now, or the permanent AG who replaces him. And why is Mr. Trump dragging his heels on nominating a permanent AG? I suppose the FISA court matter will fall to the Supreme Court, but how does that process work, and how long might it take?

The potential for a stand-off exists that will confound any effort to untangle these things, and I can see how that might lead to an extraordinary crisis in which Mr. Trump has to declare some form of emergency or perhaps martial law to clean out this suppurating abscess of illegality and sedition. That can only be the last and worst resort, but what if the US judicial system just can’t manage to clean up the mess it has made?"

http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/deep-quandaries-of-the-deep-state/

Was that satire?

There's always a grain of satire in Kunstler's writing but generally, right or wrong, the man speaks his mind.  I don't totally subscribe to everything he say but, as I said, he does present points of view I believe are worth considering.  He challenges some of my potentially knee jerk thinking on some issues.  I like that kind of challenge. 

I don't see things like the collusion issue as black and white.  I don't see a strict party line division.  I think both sides have some real issues that need addressing.  More so the Republican party, yes, but Dems too, without a doubt. 

But this isn't a both sides issue. Mueller isn't on a Dem or Repub side. Mueller is on the side of justice. 

The writer has obviously bought into some real far out conspiracy stuff, based in no reality. I can't take the piece seriously.

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Mueller can’t get trump on collusion and knows. He figured that out a long time ago.  Poor bastard is left scrambling for illegal activity done by anyone close to trump.  Once again it’s like arresting Pablo Escobar’s hitman for missing a stop sign in hopes he’ll give you something you can work with.  Now he’s hoping there’s some connection between assange and trump but unfortunately assange isn’t Russian so whatever the outcome the investigation into Russian collusion (the entire reason for the special prosecutor’s existence)is null.

Trying to strongarm folks in custody to say things that aren’t true is a bad look for an independent investigator.

The real story all along is the folks in place during the election run and the devious shit they did to keep trump from winning.  Mueller’s walking a tightrope trying to nail guys for perjury and useless crap like jay walking without having the whole shit blow up in his face.  

Im just waiting for his final verdict that “while we did uncover several questionable decisions and frivolous behavior, we did not uncover any evidence suggesting the trump campaign collided with the Russian government.”

my2hands said:

njnancy said:

my2hands said:

dignin said:

my2hands said:

Frankly, the establishment and aligned intelligence services actively working to prevent someone like Trump from becoming POTUS is hardly "far out conspiracy"

To think differently is a naive in my opinion

Oh yeah? Where's the evidence?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-agent-peter-strzok-fired-over-anti-trump-texts/2018/08/13/be98f84c-8e8b-11e8-b769-e3fff17f0689_story.html

You're kidding. 

Um, no.

He was the lead agent in the Russia investigation and was also heavily involved in the Hillary investigation. He had an open bias against Trump and Trump getting elected and this was proven by texts... Mueller was forced to kick him off the investigation... 

The lead investigator in the Russian investigation, who was also involved with the Clinton investigation, was found to be openly anti-trump and anti-trump getting elected. He was the lead investigator of the domestic intelligence/law enforcement agency for the russian investigation.

It's not my fault my friends on the left refuse to acknowledge reality on this

You guys might want to refresh your memory on the CIA, FBI, NSA, etc... not exactly historically honest brokers

This is not a defense of Trump... this is trying to keep an open mind and consider everything... i'm supposed to start trusting the CIA and agreeing with Bill Kristol & George Will all of the sudden? Pardon me for being cautious and skeptical 

dignin said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Mueller can’t get trump on collusion and knows. He figured that out a long time ago.  Poor bastard is left scrambling for illegal activity done by anyone close to trump.  Once again it’s like arresting Pablo Escobar’s hitman for missing a stop sign in hopes he’ll give you something you can work with.  Now he’s hoping there’s some connection between assange and trump but unfortunately assange isn’t Russian so whatever the outcome the investigation into Russian collusion (the entire reason for the special prosecutor’s existence)is null.

Trying to strongarm folks in custody to say things that aren’t true is a bad look for an independent investigator.

The real story all along is the folks in place during the election run and the devious shit they did to keep trump from winning.  Mueller’s walking a tightrope trying to nail guys for perjury and useless crap like jay walking without having the whole shit blow up in his face.  

Im just waiting for his final verdict that “while we did uncover several questionable decisions and frivolous behavior, we did not uncover any evidence suggesting the trump campaign collided with the Russian government.”

Sounds like you have the inside line on the investigation. Who is giving you all this primo info?