Boeing 737 water bomber purchased for Aussie bushfires
rhanishane
NSW Australia Posts: 505
Why doesn't America purchase one of these it sure would help the wildfires.
We would normally lease them from overseas during summer but with the amount of bushfires we have all year round it was only common sense to buy one. Impressive piloting as today we have a massive dust storm covering most of NSW and gale force winds.
https://www.facebook.com/213250965551/posts/10156536904410552/
We would normally lease them from overseas during summer but with the amount of bushfires we have all year round it was only common sense to buy one. Impressive piloting as today we have a massive dust storm covering most of NSW and gale force winds.
https://www.facebook.com/213250965551/posts/10156536904410552/
Post edited by rhanishane on
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rhanishane said:Why doesn't America purchase one of these it sure would help the wildfires.
We would normally lease them from overseas during summer but with the amount of bushfires we have all year round it was only common sense to buy one. Impressive piloting as today we have a massive dust storm covering most of NSW and gale force winds.
https://www.facebook.com/213250965551/posts/10156536904410552/I would love to hear from some well seasoned firefighters on this subject. Here's what I've found over the years of following this stuff:About 10 or so years ago, in the midst of a large fire here in California, I saw a fire chief being interviewed on the news. He sounded very together and knowledgeable and stated that water planes and helicopters don't really affect large fires much and are mainly used for public appeasement. He said that the greatest gains made in controlling a fire are made on the ground by hot shot crews working the lines and by them setting back fires. This makes sense to me.And then just in the last week a fire official involved with the recent catastrophic fire in Paradise, California mentioned that the water bombers had not been much help because the smoke was so bad they couldn't fly and he kind of hinted at the idea that the fire was so intense, they wouldn't help much anyway.My guess is that water bombers help, but only a little and that what the fire chief said about hot shots on the lines and setting back fires is probably true and that more resources used along those lines would be money better spent. Less glamorous on the news photos, but more effective.Edit: I have looked for information along these lines in the past and was not successful but just now (after writing the above) came across this. It confirms my hunches were not far off:Air tanker drops in wildfires are often just for show
"To professional firefighters, though, it was a prime example of a "political air show," the high-profile use of expensive aircraft to appease elected officials.
Fire commanders say they are often pressured to order planes and helicopters into action on major fires even when the aircraft won't do any good. Such pressure has resulted in needless and costly air operations, experienced fire managers said in interviews.
The reason for the interference, they say, is that aerial drops of water and retardant make good television. They're a highly visible way for political leaders to show they're doing everything possible to quell a wildfire, even if it entails overriding the judgment of incident commanders on the ground.
Firefighters have developed their own vernacular for such spectacles. They call them "CNN drops."
Post edited by brianlux on"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
They are used in conjunction with ground crews. We use multiple air craft from small crop dusters to bucket choppers to air cranes to Air tankers.0
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Yes, true, they are. And in some instances, I'm sure they are helpful. Here in the western U.S., as the article I posted clearly points out, I believe they are often used just for show.rhanishane said:They are used in conjunction with ground crews. We use multiple air craft from small crop dusters to bucket choppers to air cranes to Air tankers.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Since black Saturday we have become quite vigilant in dealing with bushfires. We now have monitored fire ratings, total fire bans over summer and strict guidelines and heavy fines regarding lighting fires and camping. High fuel load, rain activity and wind all factor in to our total fire ban days and ceasing harvesting and use of power tools on dangerous days. We also have a new sms warning system and alerts direct to mobile phone within regions affected by fire or fire threatened areas. All forests are shut down on high fire danger periods and campgrounds are evacuated. If you're in a bushy suburb on those days you are recommended to spend the day at a shopping centre etc in case of any fire event starting that day as resources will not be able to save you in those conditions. We are also instructed to fill out our fire safety plan and what you would do in the case a fire should break out in your region. We have this drummed into us daily.brianlux said:
Yes, true, they are. And in some instances, I'm sure they are helpful. Here in the western U.S., as the article I posted clearly points out, I believe they are often used just for show.rhanishane said:They are used in conjunction with ground crews. We use multiple air craft from small crop dusters to bucket choppers to air cranes to Air tankers.0 -
rhanishane said:
Since black Saturday we have become quite vigilant in dealing with bushfires. We now have monitored fire ratings, total fire bans over summer and strict guidelines and heavy fines regarding lighting fires and camping. High fuel load, rain activity and wind all factor in to our total fire ban days and ceasing harvesting and use of power tools on dangerous days. We also have a new sms warning system and alerts direct to mobile phone within regions affected by fire or fire threatened areas. All forests are shut down on high fire danger periods and campgrounds are evacuated. If you're in a bushy suburb on those days you are recommended to spend the day at a shopping centre etc in case of any fire event starting that day as resources will not be able to save you in those conditions. We are also instructed to fill out our fire safety plan and what you would do in the case a fire should break out in your region. We have this drummed into us daily.brianlux said:
Yes, true, they are. And in some instances, I'm sure they are helpful. Here in the western U.S., as the article I posted clearly points out, I believe they are often used just for show.rhanishane said:They are used in conjunction with ground crews. We use multiple air craft from small crop dusters to bucket choppers to air cranes to Air tankers.One thing for sure, the western US and parts of Australia both are becoming more an more major fire hazard areas.Best of luck to us!"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
We are focusing on saving lives in the event of major bushfires here as we are all pretty aware how quickly they get out of hand. We are now recommended to leave if possible if there is a dangerous day forecast ahead even before a fire has started. I've seen a fire take a run for 30km in just a couple of hours with a wind change. Thats fast and you think you're safe being that far away but you're not! Air tankers here are just to slow the threat and give the ground crews a little help definitely not for show here.brianlux said:rhanishane said:
Since black Saturday we have become quite vigilant in dealing with bushfires. We now have monitored fire ratings, total fire bans over summer and strict guidelines and heavy fines regarding lighting fires and camping. High fuel load, rain activity and wind all factor in to our total fire ban days and ceasing harvesting and use of power tools on dangerous days. We also have a new sms warning system and alerts direct to mobile phone within regions affected by fire or fire threatened areas. All forests are shut down on high fire danger periods and campgrounds are evacuated. If you're in a bushy suburb on those days you are recommended to spend the day at a shopping centre etc in case of any fire event starting that day as resources will not be able to save you in those conditions. We are also instructed to fill out our fire safety plan and what you would do in the case a fire should break out in your region. We have this drummed into us daily.brianlux said:
Yes, true, they are. And in some instances, I'm sure they are helpful. Here in the western U.S., as the article I posted clearly points out, I believe they are often used just for show.rhanishane said:They are used in conjunction with ground crews. We use multiple air craft from small crop dusters to bucket choppers to air cranes to Air tankers.One thing for sure, the western US and parts of Australia both are becoming more an more major fire hazard areas.Best of luck to us!0 -
Black saturday claimed 173 lives and an estimated over 1 million domestic and wild animals in 2009
http://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/black-saturday-bushfires
Post edited by rhanishane on0 -
Why water bomb when you can rake?Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140
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hahaha brilliant idea Trump😉Thoughts_Arrive said:Why water bomb when you can rake?0 -
This is Nancy Bird the air tanker we used last year.brianlux said:rhanishane said:Why doesn't America purchase one of these it sure would help the wildfires.
We would normally lease them from overseas during summer but with the amount of bushfires we have all year round it was only common sense to buy one. Impressive piloting as today we have a massive dust storm covering most of NSW and gale force winds.
https://www.facebook.com/213250965551/posts/10156536904410552/I would love to hear from some well seasoned firefighters on this subject. Here's what I've found over the years of following this stuff:About 10 or so years ago, in the midst of a large fire here in California, I saw a fire chief being interviewed on the news. He sounded very together and knowledgeable and stated that water planes and helicopters don't really affect large fires much and are mainly used for public appeasement. He said that the greatest gains made in controlling a fire are made on the ground by hot shot crews working the lines and by them setting back fires. This makes sense to me.And then just in the last week a fire official involved with the recent catastrophic fire in Paradise, California mentioned that the water bombers had not been much help because the smoke was so bad they couldn't fly and he kind of hinted at the idea that the fire was so intense, they wouldn't help much anyway.My guess is that water bombers help, but only a little and that what the fire chief said about hot shots on the lines and setting back fires is probably true and that more resources used along those lines would be money better spent. Less glamorous on the news photos, but more effective.Edit: I have looked for information along these lines in the past and was not successful but just now (after writing the above) came across this. It confirms my hunches were not far off:Air tanker drops in wildfires are often just for show
"To professional firefighters, though, it was a prime example of a "political air show," the high-profile use of expensive aircraft to appease elected officials.
Fire commanders say they are often pressured to order planes and helicopters into action on major fires even when the aircraft won't do any good. Such pressure has resulted in needless and costly air operations, experienced fire managers said in interviews.
The reason for the interference, they say, is that aerial drops of water and retardant make good television. They're a highly visible way for political leaders to show they're doing everything possible to quell a wildfire, even if it entails overriding the judgment of incident commanders on the ground.
Firefighters have developed their own vernacular for such spectacles. They call them "CNN drops."
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1754873081198777&id=196797920339642
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rhanishane said:
This is Nancy Bird the air tanker we used last year.brianlux said:rhanishane said:Why doesn't America purchase one of these it sure would help the wildfires.
We would normally lease them from overseas during summer but with the amount of bushfires we have all year round it was only common sense to buy one. Impressive piloting as today we have a massive dust storm covering most of NSW and gale force winds.
https://www.facebook.com/213250965551/posts/10156536904410552/I would love to hear from some well seasoned firefighters on this subject. Here's what I've found over the years of following this stuff:About 10 or so years ago, in the midst of a large fire here in California, I saw a fire chief being interviewed on the news. He sounded very together and knowledgeable and stated that water planes and helicopters don't really affect large fires much and are mainly used for public appeasement. He said that the greatest gains made in controlling a fire are made on the ground by hot shot crews working the lines and by them setting back fires. This makes sense to me.And then just in the last week a fire official involved with the recent catastrophic fire in Paradise, California mentioned that the water bombers had not been much help because the smoke was so bad they couldn't fly and he kind of hinted at the idea that the fire was so intense, they wouldn't help much anyway.My guess is that water bombers help, but only a little and that what the fire chief said about hot shots on the lines and setting back fires is probably true and that more resources used along those lines would be money better spent. Less glamorous on the news photos, but more effective.Edit: I have looked for information along these lines in the past and was not successful but just now (after writing the above) came across this. It confirms my hunches were not far off:Air tanker drops in wildfires are often just for show
"To professional firefighters, though, it was a prime example of a "political air show," the high-profile use of expensive aircraft to appease elected officials.
Fire commanders say they are often pressured to order planes and helicopters into action on major fires even when the aircraft won't do any good. Such pressure has resulted in needless and costly air operations, experienced fire managers said in interviews.
The reason for the interference, they say, is that aerial drops of water and retardant make good television. They're a highly visible way for political leaders to show they're doing everything possible to quell a wildfire, even if it entails overriding the judgment of incident commanders on the ground.
Firefighters have developed their own vernacular for such spectacles. They call them "CNN drops."
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1754873081198777&id=196797920339642
American pilot and former firefighter.rhanishane said:
This is Nancy Bird the air tanker we used last year.brianlux said:rhanishane said:Why doesn't America purchase one of these it sure would help the wildfires.
We would normally lease them from overseas during summer but with the amount of bushfires we have all year round it was only common sense to buy one. Impressive piloting as today we have a massive dust storm covering most of NSW and gale force winds.
https://www.facebook.com/213250965551/posts/10156536904410552/I would love to hear from some well seasoned firefighters on this subject. Here's what I've found over the years of following this stuff:About 10 or so years ago, in the midst of a large fire here in California, I saw a fire chief being interviewed on the news. He sounded very together and knowledgeable and stated that water planes and helicopters don't really affect large fires much and are mainly used for public appeasement. He said that the greatest gains made in controlling a fire are made on the ground by hot shot crews working the lines and by them setting back fires. This makes sense to me.And then just in the last week a fire official involved with the recent catastrophic fire in Paradise, California mentioned that the water bombers had not been much help because the smoke was so bad they couldn't fly and he kind of hinted at the idea that the fire was so intense, they wouldn't help much anyway.My guess is that water bombers help, but only a little and that what the fire chief said about hot shots on the lines and setting back fires is probably true and that more resources used along those lines would be money better spent. Less glamorous on the news photos, but more effective.Edit: I have looked for information along these lines in the past and was not successful but just now (after writing the above) came across this. It confirms my hunches were not far off:Air tanker drops in wildfires are often just for show
"To professional firefighters, though, it was a prime example of a "political air show," the high-profile use of expensive aircraft to appease elected officials.
Fire commanders say they are often pressured to order planes and helicopters into action on major fires even when the aircraft won't do any good. Such pressure has resulted in needless and costly air operations, experienced fire managers said in interviews.
The reason for the interference, they say, is that aerial drops of water and retardant make good television. They're a highly visible way for political leaders to show they're doing everything possible to quell a wildfire, even if it entails overriding the judgment of incident commanders on the ground.
Firefighters have developed their own vernacular for such spectacles. They call them "CNN drops."
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1754873081198777&id=1967979203396420 -
The US has access to similar size water bombers...Give Peas A Chance…0
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Buy water bombers, not fighter jets
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/letters_to_the_editors/2018/07/31/buy-water-bombers-not-fighter-jets.html
These are excellent bombers. Some of the best in the world...Give Peas A Chance…0 -
I seriously doubt they would've flown up water bombing planes from Italy to Sweden this past summer "for show".Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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We also get these constant updates and linescan images of threatening fires like this one just posted. We have 3 categories #1 advice #2 watch & act and #3 emergency warning meaning lives could be lost. We also have fires near me app that anyone can put on they're mobile that pinpoints any recent fire activities in the state with the 3 warning symbols and location and status. We cant afford to be complacent as our bush is highly flammable even in winter. Perhaps something high fire danger areas in US could look into to keep people informed of the dangers in high fire prone areas. Our state of NSW is divided into fire prone regions as the whole state and continent is at risk. Each state has its own fire authority and warnings.
https://www.facebook.com/213250965551/posts/10156537971985552/
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I stand by my posts. SOMEtimes, those water bombers are flown for show. Read the article.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
This was last winter a fire that broke out near my home and travelled 30 km inland to the ocean in one afternoon and evacuated a major highschool. It burned through wetlands in winter. Just crazy.
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I read the article i totally agree. Perhaps only in America as sometimes they are screaming to get the water bombers to fires here. They don't always use them only when they have tobrianlux said:I stand by my posts. SOMEtimes, those water bombers are flown for show. Read the article.0 -
I see more choppers dumping on spot fires and pinpointing bucket drops to flank fires. Air tankers are used more when communities are at threat to create a fire break against homes0
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Trump should ask water bombers to not drop water on fires but rakes. Plenty of rakes. Only rakes.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/20140
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