Flippity

2-feign-reluctance · November 2018

lastexitlondon said:

Ffs this place

All part and parcel of Lost Dogs. I remember when it was added new to the forums back in 2010 (?), seemed like there was a lot of helping people get good deals. I was one of those people who was VERY critical of turning merch over into profit. Over the years I've definitely changed my stance on it.

buck502000 · November 2018

buck502000 said:

I hate everyone

tommy boy · November 2018

"dollars to doughnuts".....LOL....awesome

mace1229 · November 2018

It is pretty funny seeing the anti-flipping attitude that most have, and yet look at how many poster from the last 3 months are for sale here. Spring cleaning, bills, don’t want to frame, etc. Everyone has a reason, but they all make you ask the question “why did you just buy that if you have too many?”
Seems totally fair to shut that one down, but then why not any others sell 2018 posters?

Maybe they should just leave recent poster up on the site and just list it as “sold out” and make a rule similar to bootlegs, can’t do it if it’s still listed.

I think he has the right to get fair value if he’s selling it, but 10c also has the right to enforce their own rules too.

And I don’t think he was stuck on the $800, seems like he was going off prices before 10c release and thought that was fair market. he thought I was interested because I commented in the thread and asked if I would do $500. Don’t know why he didn’t change his listing price though.

So long story short, PM me if you want a Roma for $600.

MayDay10 · November 2018

Going that high is a back-door way to have an auction

Weston1283 · November 2018

I think 800 was high for the Print, but considering the Lost Dogs forum is basically a giant flipping page, I'm not sure why only his got shut down. This is why most things are just sold on Facebook now a days.

BF89905 · November 2018

on2legs said:

BF89905 said:

How about Lost Dogs becomes only a trading forum?

The vast majority of the artwork (musical or visual) being sold here is 'flipped'. Making money off someone else's artwork is wrong. Trying to attach a time line to flipping is pointless as it's completely subjective. The same forum members that race to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on $40 posters and vinyl records are likely scouring Ebay and other websites already, so how about the moderators push all sales to another outlet? Fans making a profit off other fans isn't cool.

Why is it wrong to make money off artwork?

I think it's great that artists can make a profit, or in some cases a living, off their creative ventures/artwork. People making a profit off someone else's artwork - like how some do on this Lost Dogs forum - is slimy.
We can agree to disagree, that's fair

on2legs · November 2018

BF89905 said:

on2legs said:

BF89905 said:

How about Lost Dogs becomes only a trading forum?

The vast majority of the artwork (musical or visual) being sold here is 'flipped'. Making money off someone else's artwork is wrong. Trying to attach a time line to flipping is pointless as it's completely subjective. The same forum members that race to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on $40 posters and vinyl records are likely scouring Ebay and other websites already, so how about the moderators push all sales to another outlet? Fans making a profit off other fans isn't cool.

Why is it wrong to make money off artwork?

I think it's great that artists can make a profit, or in some cases a living, off their creative ventures/artwork. People making a profit off someone else's artwork - like how some do on this Lost Dogs forum - is slimy.
We can agree to disagree, that's fair

But why is it slimy... is there something immoral or illegal going on here that I’m missing?

Vytis33 · November 2018

I think it had to do with him acknowledging it came from 10C and the Not For Resale note being applied. Any other unsigned edition could’ve easily been purchased at the show or bought/traded for elsewhere. So can’t really enforce that rule in those cases.

willbarclay · November 2018

Vytis33 said:

I think it had to do with him acknowledging it came from 10C and the Not For Resale note being applied. Any other unsigned edition could’ve easily been purchased at the show or bought/traded for elsewhere. So can’t really enforce that rule in those cases.

Hit the Nail on the head.
They can't police it but if somone admits to purchasing it here than bingo bango

deadendp · November 2018

BF89905 said:

on2legs said:

BF89905 said:

How about Lost Dogs becomes only a trading forum?

The vast majority of the artwork (musical or visual) being sold here is 'flipped'. Making money off someone else's artwork is wrong. Trying to attach a time line to flipping is pointless as it's completely subjective. The same forum members that race to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on $40 posters and vinyl records are likely scouring Ebay and other websites already, so how about the moderators push all sales to another outlet? Fans making a profit off other fans isn't cool.

Why is it wrong to make money off artwork?

I think it's great that artists can make a profit, or in some cases a living, off their creative ventures/artwork. People making a profit off someone else's artwork - like how some do on this Lost Dogs forum - is slimy.
We can agree to disagree, that's fair

If the artist was paid what they were asking, reselling later (no matter how much later) for a profit is something that happens. It is not as if someone stole the image and printed their own merch with it.

Why do I say this? I am an artist who works at an art gallery with a bunch of other artists. It happens. Art appreciates in value. Here is something to consider.... We artists celebrate that. You know, that creates more demand for other work for us to do. Believe it or not, an increase in price is not always a bad thing.

(Ducking now as I know a flogging will be administered.)

I once had a customer come to me and admit finding and purchasing one of my bosses pieces at a flea market. Retail was probably $260. They paid $2.50 and felt horrible. I told her not to. She totally scored and I congratulated her. She got a find and that was awesome!

Why do I tell that story? How would you feel if pricing went in the opposite direction?

I know that a number of people come here to sell and trade PJ merch. There are a few parameters that the mods want people to follow. The original poster person (I have lost track at this point) admitted to purchasing the poster here. You can't flip on the poster purchased here. The mods only knew because they admitted to it.

njnancy · November 2018

willbarclay said:

Vytis33 said:

I think it had to do with him acknowledging it came from 10C and the Not For Resale note being applied. Any other unsigned edition could’ve easily been purchased at the show or bought/traded for elsewhere. So can’t really enforce that rule in those cases.

Hit the Nail on the head.
They can't police it but if somone admits to purchasing it here than bingo bango

bingo bango

deadendp said:

BF89905 said:

on2legs said:

BF89905 said:

How about Lost Dogs becomes only a trading forum?

The vast majority of the artwork (musical or visual) being sold here is 'flipped'. Making money off someone else's artwork is wrong. Trying to attach a time line to flipping is pointless as it's completely subjective. The same forum members that race to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on $40 posters and vinyl records are likely scouring Ebay and other websites already, so how about the moderators push all sales to another outlet? Fans making a profit off other fans isn't cool.

Why is it wrong to make money off artwork?

I think it's great that artists can make a profit, or in some cases a living, off their creative ventures/artwork. People making a profit off someone else's artwork - like how some do on this Lost Dogs forum - is slimy.
We can agree to disagree, that's fair

If the artist was paid what they were asking, reselling later (no matter how much later) for a profit is something that happens. It is not as if someone stole the image and printed their own merch with it.

Why do I say this? I am an artist who works at an art gallery with a bunch of other artists. It happens. Art appreciates in value. Here is something to consider.... We artists celebrate that. You know, that creates more demand for other work for us to do. Believe it or not, an increase in price is not always a bad thing.

(Ducking now as I know a flogging will be administered.)

I once had a customer come to me and admit finding and purchasing one of my bosses pieces at a flea market. Retail was probably $260. They paid $2.50 and felt horrible. I told her not to. She totally scored and I congratulated her. She got a find and that was awesome!

Why do I tell that story? How would you feel if pricing went in the opposite direction?

I know that a number of people come here to sell and trade PJ merch. There are a few parameters that the mods want people to follow. The original poster person (I have lost track at this point) admitted to purchasing the poster here. You can't flip on the poster purchased here. The mods only knew because they admitted to it.

Well said from an artist's perspective.

If someone were to purchase a piece of artwork at a gallery and then proceed to try to flip it for a higher price in the lobby of the gallery - that wouldn't go down so well. Once it leaves the gallery, the market gets what it gets.

It IS the same as scalping tickets though, legal, but open to opinions.

deadendp · November 2018

njnancy said:

willbarclay said:

Vytis33 said:

I think it had to do with him acknowledging it came from 10C and the Not For Resale note being applied. Any other unsigned edition could’ve easily been purchased at the show or bought/traded for elsewhere. So can’t really enforce that rule in those cases.

Hit the Nail on the head.
They can't police it but if somone admits to purchasing it here than bingo bango
bingo bango

deadendp said:

BF89905 said:

on2legs said:

BF89905 said:

How about Lost Dogs becomes only a trading forum?

The vast majority of the artwork (musical or visual) being sold here is 'flipped'. Making money off someone else's artwork is wrong. Trying to attach a time line to flipping is pointless as it's completely subjective. The same forum members that race to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars on $40 posters and vinyl records are likely scouring Ebay and other websites already, so how about the moderators push all sales to another outlet? Fans making a profit off other fans isn't cool.

Why is it wrong to make money off artwork?

I think it's great that artists can make a profit, or in some cases a living, off their creative ventures/artwork. People making a profit off someone else's artwork - like how some do on this Lost Dogs forum - is slimy.
We can agree to disagree, that's fair

If the artist was paid what they were asking, reselling later (no matter how much later) for a profit is something that happens. It is not as if someone stole the image and printed their own merch with it.

Why do I say this? I am an artist who works at an art gallery with a bunch of other artists. It happens. Art appreciates in value. Here is something to consider.... We artists celebrate that. You know, that creates more demand for other work for us to do. Believe it or not, an increase in price is not always a bad thing.

(Ducking now as I know a flogging will be administered.)

I once had a customer come to me and admit finding and purchasing one of my bosses pieces at a flea market. Retail was probably $260. They paid $2.50 and felt horrible. I told her not to. She totally scored and I congratulated her. She got a find and that was awesome!

Why do I tell that story? How would you feel if pricing went in the opposite direction?

I know that a number of people come here to sell and trade PJ merch. There are a few parameters that the mods want people to follow. The original poster person (I have lost track at this point) admitted to purchasing the poster here. You can't flip on the poster purchased here. The mods only knew because they admitted to it.

Well said from an artist's perspective.

If someone were to purchase a piece of artwork at a gallery and then proceed to try to flip it for a higher price in the lobby of the gallery - that wouldn't go down so well. Once it leaves the gallery, the market gets what it gets.

It IS the same as scalping tickets though, legal, but open to opinions.

Good point there, too.

tubes10s · November 2018

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Asking 800 for a poster that sold on this very site for 35 bones like a month ago that specifically says not for resale. That takes brass balls, man.

Naah, no it doesn't. Putting "not for resale" has as much meaning as writing "not for framing in a black frame." Once you own it, do whatever you want with it. Just because you ask a high price doesn't mean you'll get it. And if they do get their price, and both the buyer and seller are pleased, then nobody else should give a damn about the transaction.

tubes10s · November 2018

drakeheuer14 said:

They dont want to fix it. They put on a nice little show with the stickers on the back and apparently shutting down threads asking too much (?) to make people think otherwise

You're exactly right. I would word it differently though... there is nothing to fix. The flipping frenzy and the associated demand is the desired outcome of the way that things are sold here. There's nothing to fix because it is all working exactly as intended.

on2legs · November 2018

tubes10s said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Asking 800 for a poster that sold on this very site for 35 bones like a month ago that specifically says not for resale. That takes brass balls, man.

Naah, no it doesn't. Putting "not for resale" has as much meaning as writing "not for framing in a black frame." Once you own it, do whatever you want with it. Just because you ask a high price doesn't mean you'll get it. And if they do get their price, and both the buyer and seller are pleased, then nobody else should give a damn about the transaction.

I pretty much agree with this... as long as it’s one poster per person. If someone wants to keep that one poster that’s their call and if they want to sell it for market value that’s their call too. But I’m not cool with people having multiples and flipping them.

RoleModelsinBlood31 · November 2018

I definitely think they should only sell 1 per person at the shows. If there’s 3 different posters, you can wall
away with 3 posters. Pretty simple.

FactoryMan93 · November 2018

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

I definitely think they should only sell 1 per person at the shows. If there’s 3 different posters, you can wall
away with 3 posters. Pretty simple.

A more reasonable option... When you purchase tickets to the show, the option of buying merch should be available when you select the show. Limit the available quantity, and whatever does not sell, the artist can sell at his price after the show

RoleModelsinBlood31 · November 2018

FactoryMan93 said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

I definitely think they should only sell 1 per person at the shows. If there’s 3 different posters, you can wall
away with 3 posters. Pretty simple.

A more reasonable option... When you purchase tickets to the show, the option of buying merch should be available when you select the show. Limit the available quantity, and whatever does not sell, the artist can sell at his price after the show

In theory yes, but they’ll never do it- it opens up the floodgates for complaints when people get something they hate. By limiting posters to one per person, you’re not forcing them to buy something they don’t want so you eliminate that complaint- if they buy it, they can do whatever the hell they choose to do with it, but they only get 1 to do it with. It would probably sell less and therefore lower their profits, but it’s the right thing to do- how much more can a band that makes 7 million a show need?

Flippity

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