Elizabeth Warren and Her Ancestry. Thoughts?

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation

Are you referring to Voter turnout?

If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh

Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.

Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.

When they do that, turnout will take care of  itself

Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls.  Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.

Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awful

I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).

Did you vote for Obama?

That's a real question.

My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary. 

Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss. 

Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary. 

I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.

I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.

Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion

Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.

I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.

I ended up not voting at all.

Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.

My $.02

I guess. I personally think Hillary was ridiculously villainized way, way, WAY beyond what she deserved. I don't love her or anything, but the hate towards her, based on feelings about past nominees was and is completely disproportional to what she's ever done or said or deserved. It's totally bizarre IMO. If someone voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, well that's a fucking moron right there. A moron without morals.

Or maybe I'm a racist or a biggot or a misogynist or a nationalist or a confederate sympathizer...

Stop it, just stop.

Er, well, I'll try and put it a nicer way... If they aren't any of those things and still voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, they were sorely "misguided". IMO. (Really? You voted Trump? Did I just block that from my mind?)

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation

Are you referring to Voter turnout?

If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh

Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.

Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.

When they do that, turnout will take care of  itself

Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls.  Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.

Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awful

I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).

Did you vote for Obama?

That's a real question.

My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary. 

Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss. 

Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary. 

I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.

I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.

Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion

Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.

I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.

I ended up not voting at all.

Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.

My $.02

I guess. I personally think Hillary was ridiculously villainized way, way, WAY beyond what she deserved. I don't love her or anything, but the hate towards her, based on feelings about past nominees was and is completely disproportional to what she's ever done or said or deserved. It's totally bizarre IMO. If someone voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, well that's a fucking moron right there. A moron without morals.

Or maybe I'm a racist or a biggot or a misogynist or a nationalist or a confederate sympathizer...

Stop it, just stop.

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation

Are you referring to Voter turnout?

If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh

Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.

Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.

When they do that, turnout will take care of  itself

Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls.  Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.

Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awful

I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).

Did you vote for Obama?

That's a real question.

My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary. 

Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss. 

Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary. 

I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.

I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.

Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion

Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.

I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.

I ended up not voting at all.

Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.

My $.02

I guess. I personally think Hillary was ridiculously villainized way, way, WAY beyond what she deserved. I don't love her or anything, but the hate towards her, based on feelings about past nominees was and is completely disproportional to what she's ever done or said or deserved. It's totally bizarre IMO. If someone voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, well that's a fucking moron right there. A moron without morals.

Or maybe I'm a racist or a biggot or a misogynist or a nationalist or a confederate sympathizer...

Stop it, just stop.

Er, well, I'll try and put it a nicer way... If they aren't any of those things and still voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, they were sorely "misguided". IMO. (Really? You voted Trump? Did I just block that from my mind?)

No, misread.  I did not vote.

Oh good, lol. That's not great, but much, much better.

I'm sure you've been asked before, but... If you could do it all over again, would you do the same thing?

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation

Are you referring to Voter turnout?

If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh

Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.

Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.

When they do that, turnout will take care of  itself

Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls.  Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.

Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awful

I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).

Did you vote for Obama?

oftenreading said:

curmudgeoness said:

my2hands said:

She was villianized...she was also a horrible candidate 

I like to consider myself a pretty solid progressive and I voted against her in the 2008 primary, voted against her in the 2016 primary... voted for her in 2016, mostly because she was a woman, a Democrat, and not Donald Trump... out of 3 chances I had to vote for her as a registered Democrat, I only hit the button once

But morons and racists are easier to blame

I think (speaking as a woman) that women in positions of power have to work very hard to present a persona that is tough but not too tough, soft but not too soft, assertive but not "shrill." Etc. She seemed over-rehearsed and inauthentic to some people because she felt she needed -- or she actually needed -- to walk that tightrope. Because misogyny remains pervasive in our society, in subtle and less-subtle forms.

But I voted for her because I feel that she is smart, experienced, and tough as -- I don't want to say "balls" here -- leather? steel? a uterus? (sorry, had to go there). I never got the whole notion of voting for GWB over Al Gore because, "who would you rather have a beer with?" We're voting for president of the United States -- someone who ought to be way too busy presidenting to meet me for a beer or to spend the morning watching "Fox & Friends."

When we talk about how "likable" a politician is, we're making it a popularity contest. It's not like choosing class president in high school. You don't want the cool guy, the hot girl, or whoever promises to install a latte machine in the cafeteria. Does the candidate have the skills, the knowledge, the ethics, the leadership skills needed for the role?

Clinton was unusually experienced. And she's tough and damn smart. What we ended up with, instead, because Hillary is "not likable" or "too shrill," is someone who has no experience, no inclination to learn anything, who was of at-best average intelligence to begin with and who now seems to be suffering some cognitive impairment, who is utterly devoid of ethics, empathy, and leadership ability. It's not just a matter of whether I like or dislike his policies, such as they are: he is fundamentally unfit for the role and for most roles. I wouldn't buy a car from him, and I say with some confidence that at least 85% of the people posting on here are more qualified for the job than he is.

So... yeah. I question the thought processes that led people to vote for him over her. I'm not a progressive, but this was the easiest choice i ever made.

I’m curious what makes you say you’re not a progressive? Maybe you mean something different by that than the way I interpret it. 

curmudgeoness said:

mcgruff10 said:

curmudgeoness said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation

Are you referring to Voter turnout?

If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh

Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.

Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.

When they do that, turnout will take care of  itself

Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls.  Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.

Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awful

I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).

Did you vote for Obama?

That's a real question.

My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary. 

Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss. 

Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary. 

I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.

I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.

Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion

Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.

I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.

I ended up not voting at all.

Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.

My $.02

I think Biden would have absolutely mopped the floor with him. It would have been a landslide.

But let's not forget that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million votes.

The popular vote is irrelevant; everyone knew 270 is the magic number, not the amount you won the popular vote by.  The red sox could outscore the dodgers 45-7 in the world series but still lose 4 games to 3.  

They're up 4-2 right now. ;-)

Yes, for better or worse, for now, the electoral votes are what matter. But the result of the popular vote suggests that she wasn't a "terrible" candidate. I have seen a fair amount of wondering/ questioning if her campaign failed by not spending more time in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. Maybe. But the idea that the other side ran a masterful campaign is rubbish, too. There was ample news coverage of how bare-bones and haphazard the T---- campaign was, that he didn't expect to win and didn't really want to win.

Like many people, I was watching the polling obsessively in the weeks leading up to the election. I'm embarrassed to say how much time I spent refreshing 538.com. I was well aware that a 15% chance of winning was a very real chance of winning, so while friends would crow about the polls I kept saying that I wouldn't exhale until the results were in. And yet --

I wonder if we ever will know the full extent of Russia''s influence on the election.

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

my2hands said:

Because it is funny... whether people realize it or not she looks like a total ass to most people now because of this, not him

You just explained what is so seriously wrong with America right now.

Why?  Trump looks like an ass for a lot of things, his nicknaming is one.

But in this specific situation, she certainly looks pretty bad herself.

You just explained why. Because so many people apparently think she is the total ass and not him, just because of this. This one thing has been blown wildly out of proportion, while everything Trump does on a day to day basis is being minimized.

Exactly!  And how crazy is that!?

Say, how difficult is it to emigrate to Canada these days?  My step daughter lives in Alaska, my sister in the Bay Area, and my brother and some nephews in Washington state.  BC would put me about half way between the extremes and would be a release from this insane asylum we live in.

 Just google "how to immigrate (or emigrate) to Canada" Brian, and you will find all the answers you're looking for.

Or search for how to freeze your ass off and live in a country that can't even win a trophy in the sport it invented while eating maple syrup.

Meltdown99 said:

Brian just remember BC=bring cash

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

PJ_Soul said:

dankind said:

brianlux said:

dankind said:

brianlux said:

Reagan was 69 when he took office.  Trump is 70.  But God forbid we have a 70 year old Democratic old woman run for president.  Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooo!!!

And Reagan's second term was a fucking shitshow, with poor old Nancy changing the goddamn diapers. And we know how Trump's faculties are holding up.

People age differently.  I know or know of people well into there 70's who are sharp, smart as a tack and graced by years of wisdom. 

Some examples:

Wendell Berry:  A well known and respected long time bookseller recently told me, "Wendell Berry [who is 84 years old] is the greatest living writer in America today.  Berry is still producing fine works.

John Muir: Muir was still doing great writing into his 70's

Judi Dench: still doing great work at 83

I know this very well, Brian. But I'm not taking that chance with the leader of the free world, especially when the 25th Amendment was apparently just written for shits and giggles.

I'm just ageist when it comes down to something like this. I own it. I think it's pragmatic more than anything.

Well... it's just ageist. I'm sure sexists think they're being pragmatic too.

Ignoring you once again (or trying to anyway) tagging anything I've written with sexism--apparently, I'm not communicating well, so I'll stop after this--but I'll just ask, where's our dreamy, cool-sock-wearing young-ish person who would have a chance on the presidential ticket (for either party)?

So far, I've heard Trump, Warren, Biden, even Sanders. Holy shit! will those last two even be alive in 2020?

Is Kamala considering? Booker? Hickenlooper? Klobuchar? Cuomo?

Would anyone dare primary Trump? Haley? Sasse? Walker? Flake? Baker? McMaster?

Wow. I have never once thought you're sexist, so I have no clue where you're getting that from. If I do happen to be referencing sexism in reply to your posts a lot, it's not deliberate or targeted in any way, and I'm truly not aware of it ... If that's how it's turning out, well, maybe shit you say warrants it, one way or another?

But in any case, I don't know what you mean by "tagging". I used the comparison because I thought it was apt.

Anyway, I'm not sure how you'd like someone to respond to openly ageist posts. Don't get me wrong, some old people totally aren't fit for office, but if they actually make it far enough to be nominated, it's certainly not because they don't have all their faculties (normally - Trump is the exception to every rule). I think some old people aren't fit for the position just because their views are way outdated because they aren't the type of person who can absorb new ideas and concepts. They can't move with the times. But other older people can do that perfectly well, so it's not their actual age that I'm focusing on. It's the ability to be open to new things and ideas.

Damn, it feels good to be an ageist!

https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2019/03/08/too-old-president-science-says-yes/oMgYxC6waKIIyKWuHciJCJ/story.html

Of course, feel free to argue with science. It's very popular these days.