Elizabeth Warren and Her Ancestry. Thoughts?
Comments
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No, he is not. You're underplaying Trump's horribleness to a disturbing degree, and that has nothing to do with GW. Remember that GW's reelection involved a very specific difference that can't be ignored or undervalued: America was in the middle of a war, and 9/11 was still fresh.my2hands said:W in 2004 was much worse in my opinion, do I really need to remind people? Bunch of fucking psychos in that admin that lit the world on fire, and demonized gays daily...
Trump is childs play
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
And then they used and manipulated the fear in my country and purposely lied to invade a nation and lay waste to it while a few hundred thousand people were slaughtered. Authorized torture of detainees. Kidnapped and disappeared into secret black rendition sites. People are still held at Guantanamo without charge to this day. Demonized gsys and proposed a constitutional ban on gay marriage. Dont even get me started
As bad as Trump is, it's really not even close0 -
my2hands said:And then they used and manipulated the fear in my country and purposely lied to invade a nation and lay waste to it while a few hundred thousand people were slaughtered. Authorized torture of detainees. Kidnapped and disappeared into secret black rendition sites. People are still held at Guantanamo without charge to this day. Demonized gsys and proposed a constitutional ban on gay marriage. Dont even get me started
As bad as Trump is, it's really not even closeI'm not here to compare what these two did in office, although I think you are sorely undervaluing the harm that Trump is doing in the WH and to America's democracy in the long term, as many people are tending to do, which is going to be Trump's saviour, unfortunately. What I'm saying is that people VOTED for Bush again because of those very specific circumstances of being fresh from 9/11 and in the middle of a war. They had no such rational though emotional motivation when they voted Trump in. That's my point.And btw, Trump surrounds himself with homophobic racists and could release those at Guantanamo Bay if he wanted, but he doesn't, and has ramped up drone attacks that kill civilians why A LOT, and the list goes on, and on, and on, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there, if you're dedicated to comparing what these two did in office.I think it's quite scary that you think the harm Trump is doing isn't on par and doesn't include some of the things you're so upset about Bush doing ... I'm thinking it's because you're avoiding the news too much! If you're now so anti-media, how can you even claim to be informed??Post edited by PJ_Soul onWith all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Trump is a horrible POTUS in my opinion, never said anything short of that, and I certainly don't take his impact lightly...
You called 60 million people scum based on 1 vote... have you ever met a Trump voter in person? I say those that voted for W a 2nd time, yes a 2nd time (fuck that was horrible), voted for a pretty scummy candidate themselves.
Pop culture may say Trump is the worst ever, history and results will show it was the W shitshow, bunch of damn war criminals in my opinion.
I do love a strong independent woman that has no problem calling me out and telling me when im full of shit. Love it. But dont think for a second I'm softening my position on Trump, quite the opposite, I want progressives to actually win some elections and beat this guy. From the name calling and elitism I've noticed from the left, once I turned off the news by the way, I am now fully woke to what really happened. It wasnt bigotry, it wasnt sexism, it wasnt fear. It was hubris, elitism, and a horrible candidate that had the electricity and likeability of a fucking wet rock lol.0 -
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.020 -
I guess. I personally think Hillary was ridiculously villainized way, way, WAY beyond what she deserved. I don't love her or anything, but the hate towards her, based on feelings about past nominees was and is completely disproportional to what she's ever done or said or deserved. It's totally bizarre IMO. If someone voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, well that's a fucking moron right there. A moron without morals.tempo_n_groove said:
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.02
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
PJ_Soul said:
Voting should be mandatory.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never going to happen.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
This.Getting people to vote is an interesting and complex challenge. I've gone to some ACLU events where voting access and participation is discussed. It's important to remove barriers for people who want to vote. At the same time, people working on this issue have that there is a segment of the population that refuses to vote no matter what. You could make it possible for them to vote via smartphone or their TV remote control, and put the device in their hands, and they still wouldn't vote.All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.0 -
tempo_n_groove said:
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.02I think Biden would have absolutely mopped the floor with him. It would have been a landslide.But let's not forget that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million votes.All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.0 -
She was villianized...she was also a horrible candidate
I like to consider myself a pretty solid progressive and I voted against her in the 2008 primary, voted against her in the 2016 primary... voted for her in 2016, mostly because she was a woman, a Democrat, and not Donald Trump... out of 3 chances I had to vote for her as a registered Democrat, I only hit the button once
But morons and racists are easier to blame0 -
6-7 million white voters that “swung” to Team Trump Treason because of fear of the “other,” racism and immigrants. Not 60 million as you keep professing.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
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If Brian voted for Obama, and not Hillary, you're saying that was because of fear and racism?Halifax2TheMax said:
6-7 million white voters that “swung” to Team Trump Treason because of fear of the “other,” racism and immigrants. Not 60 million as you keep professing.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
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The popular vote is irrelevant; everyone knew 270 is the magic number, not the amount you won the popular vote by. The red sox could outscore the dodgers 45-7 in the world series but still lose 4 games to 3.curmudgeoness said:tempo_n_groove said:
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.02I think Biden would have absolutely mopped the floor with him. It would have been a landslide.But let's not forget that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million votes.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
No, I’m saying 6-7 million American voters did. I have no clue what motivated Brian to vote the way he did. Maybe he can enlighten us?my2hands said:
If Brian voted for Obama, and not Hillary, you're saying that was because of fear and racism?Halifax2TheMax said:
6-7 million white voters that “swung” to Team Trump Treason because of fear of the “other,” racism and immigrants. Not 60 million as you keep professing.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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my2hands said:She was villianized...she was also a horrible candidate
I like to consider myself a pretty solid progressive and I voted against her in the 2008 primary, voted against her in the 2016 primary... voted for her in 2016, mostly because she was a woman, a Democrat, and not Donald Trump... out of 3 chances I had to vote for her as a registered Democrat, I only hit the button once
But morons and racists are easier to blameI think (speaking as a woman) that women in positions of power have to work very hard to present a persona that is tough but not too tough, soft but not too soft, assertive but not "shrill." Etc. She seemed over-rehearsed and inauthentic to some people because she felt she needed -- or she actually needed -- to walk that tightrope. Because misogyny remains pervasive in our society, in subtle and less-subtle forms.But I voted for her because I feel that she is smart, experienced, and tough as -- I don't want to say "balls" here -- leather? steel? a uterus? (sorry, had to go there). I never got the whole notion of voting for GWB over Al Gore because, "who would you rather have a beer with?" We're voting for president of the United States -- someone who ought to be way too busy presidenting to meet me for a beer or to spend the morning watching "Fox & Friends."When we talk about how "likable" a politician is, we're making it a popularity contest. It's not like choosing class president in high school. You don't want the cool guy, the hot girl, or whoever promises to install a latte machine in the cafeteria. Does the candidate have the skills, the knowledge, the ethics, the leadership skills needed for the role?Clinton was unusually experienced. And she's tough and damn smart. What we ended up with, instead, because Hillary is "not likable" or "too shrill," is someone who has no experience, no inclination to learn anything, who was of at-best average intelligence to begin with and who now seems to be suffering some cognitive impairment, who is utterly devoid of ethics, empathy, and leadership ability. It's not just a matter of whether I like or dislike his policies, such as they are: he is fundamentally unfit for the role and for most roles. I wouldn't buy a car from him, and I say with some confidence that at least 85% of the people posting on here are more qualified for the job than he is.So... yeah. I question the thought processes that led people to vote for him over her. I'm not a progressive, but this was the easiest choice i ever made.All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.0 -
Or maybe I'm a racist or a biggot or a misogynist or a nationalist or a confederate sympathizer...PJ_Soul said:
I guess. I personally think Hillary was ridiculously villainized way, way, WAY beyond what she deserved. I don't love her or anything, but the hate towards her, based on feelings about past nominees was and is completely disproportional to what she's ever done or said or deserved. It's totally bizarre IMO. If someone voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, well that's a fucking moron right there. A moron without morals.tempo_n_groove said:
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.02
Stop it, just stop.0 -
The election was decided by approximately 40,000 to 44,000 votes in 3 key electoral college states by 6-7 million voters who swung from Obama to Team Trump Teason or "not Hillary" based on fear of the "other," racism and immigrants. Is it really this dfficult for you guys to understand? Go back and read the scholarly paper thats linked in the article that I posted two days ago. There's supposition and opinion and then there are well researched issues that are confirmed and published.mcgruff10 said:
The popular vote is irrelevant; everyone knew 270 is the magic number, not the amount you won the popular vote by. The red sox could outscore the dodgers 45-7 in the world series but still lose 4 games to 3.curmudgeoness said:tempo_n_groove said:
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.02I think Biden would have absolutely mopped the floor with him. It would have been a landslide.But let's not forget that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million votes.
And I'm not attacking you, jumping down your throat, bullying you, stifling debate or pretending to be the smartest guy in the room. But your free to think so.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
I’m curious what makes you say you’re not a progressive? Maybe you mean something different by that than the way I interpret it.curmudgeoness said:my2hands said:She was villianized...she was also a horrible candidate
I like to consider myself a pretty solid progressive and I voted against her in the 2008 primary, voted against her in the 2016 primary... voted for her in 2016, mostly because she was a woman, a Democrat, and not Donald Trump... out of 3 chances I had to vote for her as a registered Democrat, I only hit the button once
But morons and racists are easier to blameI think (speaking as a woman) that women in positions of power have to work very hard to present a persona that is tough but not too tough, soft but not too soft, assertive but not "shrill." Etc. She seemed over-rehearsed and inauthentic to some people because she felt she needed -- or she actually needed -- to walk that tightrope. Because misogyny remains pervasive in our society, in subtle and less-subtle forms.But I voted for her because I feel that she is smart, experienced, and tough as -- I don't want to say "balls" here -- leather? steel? a uterus? (sorry, had to go there). I never got the whole notion of voting for GWB over Al Gore because, "who would you rather have a beer with?" We're voting for president of the United States -- someone who ought to be way too busy presidenting to meet me for a beer or to spend the morning watching "Fox & Friends."When we talk about how "likable" a politician is, we're making it a popularity contest. It's not like choosing class president in high school. You don't want the cool guy, the hot girl, or whoever promises to install a latte machine in the cafeteria. Does the candidate have the skills, the knowledge, the ethics, the leadership skills needed for the role?Clinton was unusually experienced. And she's tough and damn smart. What we ended up with, instead, because Hillary is "not likable" or "too shrill," is someone who has no experience, no inclination to learn anything, who was of at-best average intelligence to begin with and who now seems to be suffering some cognitive impairment, who is utterly devoid of ethics, empathy, and leadership ability. It's not just a matter of whether I like or dislike his policies, such as they are: he is fundamentally unfit for the role and for most roles. I wouldn't buy a car from him, and I say with some confidence that at least 85% of the people posting on here are more qualified for the job than he is.So... yeah. I question the thought processes that led people to vote for him over her. I'm not a progressive, but this was the easiest choice i ever made.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
True, but just like with the census, another thing that is crucial if the government wants to operate in the interests of the citizens, those people would at least be fined if they refused (plus there would be ways to qualify for abstention). It's just that the miserable voter turn out in "democratic" countries where voting is optional, democracy in terms of a government representing the people - the majority - is actually impossible.curmudgeoness said:PJ_Soul said:
Voting should be mandatory.Halifax2TheMax said:
Never going to happen.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
This.Getting people to vote is an interesting and complex challenge. I've gone to some ACLU events where voting access and participation is discussed. It's important to remove barriers for people who want to vote. At the same time, people working on this issue have that there is a segment of the population that refuses to vote no matter what. You could make it possible for them to vote via smartphone or their TV remote control, and put the device in their hands, and they still wouldn't vote.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Er, well, I'll try and put it a nicer way... If they aren't any of those things and still voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, they were sorely "misguided". IMO. (Really? You voted Trump? Did I just block that from my mind?)tempo_n_groove said:
Or maybe I'm a racist or a biggot or a misogynist or a nationalist or a confederate sympathizer...PJ_Soul said:
I guess. I personally think Hillary was ridiculously villainized way, way, WAY beyond what she deserved. I don't love her or anything, but the hate towards her, based on feelings about past nominees was and is completely disproportional to what she's ever done or said or deserved. It's totally bizarre IMO. If someone voted for Trump because they thought Hillary was worse, well that's a fucking moron right there. A moron without morals.tempo_n_groove said:
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.02
Stop it, just stop.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
How can anyone think that you’re the smartest guy in the room when you make such egregious errors?Halifax2TheMax said:
The election was decided by approximately 40,000 to 44,000 votes in 3 key electoral college states by 6-7 million voters who swung from Obama to Team Trump Teason or "not Hillary" based on fear of the "other," racism and immigrants. Is it really this dfficult for you guys to understand? Go back and read the scholarly paper thats linked in the article that I posted two days ago. There's supposition and opinion and then there are well researched issues that are confirmed and published.mcgruff10 said:
The popular vote is irrelevant; everyone knew 270 is the magic number, not the amount you won the popular vote by. The red sox could outscore the dodgers 45-7 in the world series but still lose 4 games to 3.curmudgeoness said:tempo_n_groove said:
I was going to vote for Trump because I couldn't stand Hilary and didn't want her in office.PJ_Soul said:
Fine. I disagree. Anyone who would vote for that piece of shit, after ALL the terrible things they knew about him, have no real moral compass at all. I think there is NO excuse for it. And no, nobody has ever been on the ballot like Trump, so it's never happened before. I sure as hell don't think they're scum for voting for Trump because he's a cheater, lol.my2hands said:
I disagree. I know some trump voters, they are not scum. I definitely disagree with them politically, but that doesnt make them scum.PJ_Soul said:
I think anyone would vote for Trump for ANY reason is scum. Hillary has nothing to do with it.my2hands said:
That's a real question.my2hands said:
Did you vote for Obama?brianlux said:
I didn't vote for her or Trump (but I live in a state that was 100% for sure going to give Hillary it's electoral college votes).my2hands said:
Or Hillary was an awful candidate and had no enthusiasm behind her as a candidate? I actually believe if Hillary were a male candidate she would have lost the popular vote as well, she was awfulbrianlux said:
Trump would not be president if more people had shown up at the polls. Too many Clinton votes were lost by too many people assuming she had it in the bag.Lerxst1992 said:mickeyrat said:I wanna see what happens with 75-85%plus participation
Are you referring to Voter turnout?
If so, check out the wiki for 2016 elections for fla, pa and oh
Turnout was at or above 70% and democrats lost all of those states by plenty of votes.
Dems focusing on turnout first is usually a catastrophic disaster. Dems win when they have a winning message communicated effectively.
When they do that, turnout will take care of itself
My assumption is you voted for Obama despite him being a lock to take CA both times. And then didnt vote for Hillary.
Democrats only need to look at their awful robot elit7st candidate to realize why Trump lost. But I guess its easier to label 60 million morons and racists than own the loss.
Dont blame me, I voted for Bernie in the primary.
Why would you paint them all with such a broad brush? Were people that voted for W in 2004 scum? Are people who supported Bill Clinton scum? A married man with a daughter getting blown by a young intern in the oval office is about as scumbag as it gets in my opinion
I ended up not voting at all.
Blame the Dems for choosing Hillary as their candidate and Trump winning.
My $.02I think Biden would have absolutely mopped the floor with him. It would have been a landslide.But let's not forget that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million votes.
And I'm not attacking you, jumping down your throat, bullying you, stifling debate or pretending to be the smartest guy in the room. But your free to think so.I SAW PEARL JAM0
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