My story dealing with several horrible entitled “railbirds” in GA at Wrigley 2
Comments
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iwasthere said:This Springsteen system sounds amazing.0
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Bentleyspop said:Which of you Americans are going to fly all the way to Australia? To Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, etc. Just to sit on sidewalks day after day after day, see some concerts, and then fly back home?2000 - 8/21 - Columbus, OH
2003 - 6/18 - Chicago, IL
2006 - 5/22 - Auburn Hills, MI
2007 - 8/5 - Chicago, IL
2015 - 9/26 - New York, NY
2016 - 4/16 - Greenville, SC; 8/20 - Chicago, IL; 8/22 - Chicago, IL
2018 - 8/18 - Chicago, IL; 8/20 - Chicago, IL
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=30450 -
ForceofNature101 said:iwasthere said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:PJNB said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
To me, based on the information given, the line did not start until 8am, and whoever physically is first in that 8am line when 8am starts, is first in line, right?
To me we DO need to wait for 10C to announce it, or the venue. If there is no explicit rule, we as fans cannot set rules telling other fans what to do. We can only abide by the official rules set by the venue or 10C.
The only thing that would perpetuate the current problem is when fans impose their own rules. The campers were set aside not because they had to move a line, but because there was no line. None of them had any right to be #1 in line, they only had the right to camp out close to where the line starts at 8am for the chance to be first in line
So to me the only issue is when campers got beat to the punch legitimately, but can't deal with it emotionally because they are so used to setting rules over other fans
giving credence to a venue rule that’s just in place so they aren’t responsible for what might be a hassle.
Okay, so picture the 8:00 am rule taken literally and how this would play out in reality. You’d have 400+ people milling about across the street at 7:59 and the. All hell would break loose at 8:00. Pushing, shoving, running, elbows, etc. A mob would arrive at the entry gate. Who’s going to sort that out? The conflicts from that would make this OP story look like Disney.0 -
Gtilley8 said:Bentleyspop said:Which of you Americans are going to fly all the way to Australia? To Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, etc. Just to sit on sidewalks day after day after day, see some concerts, and then fly back home?tacos0
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Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:iwasthere said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:PJNB said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
To me, based on the information given, the line did not start until 8am, and whoever physically is first in that 8am line when 8am starts, is first in line, right?
To me we DO need to wait for 10C to announce it, or the venue. If there is no explicit rule, we as fans cannot set rules telling other fans what to do. We can only abide by the official rules set by the venue or 10C.
The only thing that would perpetuate the current problem is when fans impose their own rules. The campers were set aside not because they had to move a line, but because there was no line. None of them had any right to be #1 in line, they only had the right to camp out close to where the line starts at 8am for the chance to be first in line
So to me the only issue is when campers got beat to the punch legitimately, but can't deal with it emotionally because they are so used to setting rules over other fans
giving credence to a venue rule that’s just in place so they aren’t responsible for what might be a hassle.
Okay, so picture the 8:00 am rule taken literally and how this would play out in reality. You’d have 400+ people milling about across the street at 7:59 and the. All hell would break loose at 8:00. Pushing, shoving, running, elbows, etc. A mob would arrive at the entry gate. Who’s going to sort that out? The conflicts from that would make this OP story look like Disney.
Look we can talk hypothetical problems all day, but all in all going back to the original point - I just think that unofficial un-unanimously agreed upon arbitrary rules set by only a few fans upon other fans, should not be actually employed. And the people who were first in line in the case of Wrigley 2, were not doing anything wrong per the official rules.
The online harassment and even this whole thread shouldn't have been made, but unfortunately all it takes is a few line-nazis and a few inconsiderate people in the GA section during the concert to create issue
Post edited by ForceofNature101 on0 -
Loose and vague rules, and the laughable notion this fan base can self-police only favors the bold and the cliques. We have "fans" buying loads of stuff to exploit other fans via raffles, "flash sales", and auctions all over the known map. Fans will do anything to get a leg up.Post edited by BCBA on0
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ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:iwasthere said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:PJNB said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:Again, the 8:00 am line up rule is set by an outisde authority, why should that take precedent over the group established rule of whoever gets there first is first in line?
To me, based on the information given, the line did not start until 8am, and whoever physically is first in that 8am line when 8am starts, is first in line, right?
To me we DO need to wait for 10C to announce it, or the venue. If there is no explicit rule, we as fans cannot set rules telling other fans what to do. We can only abide by the official rules set by the venue or 10C.
The only thing that would perpetuate the current problem is when fans impose their own rules. The campers were set aside not because they had to move a line, but because there was no line. None of them had any right to be #1 in line, they only had the right to camp out close to where the line starts at 8am for the chance to be first in line
So to me the only issue is when campers got beat to the punch legitimately, but can't deal with it emotionally because they are so used to setting rules over other fans
giving credence to a venue rule that’s just in place so they aren’t responsible for what might be a hassle.
Okay, so picture the 8:00 am rule taken literally and how this would play out in reality. You’d have 400+ people milling about across the street at 7:59 and the. All hell would break loose at 8:00. Pushing, shoving, running, elbows, etc. A mob would arrive at the entry gate. Who’s going to sort that out? The conflicts from that would make this OP story look like Disney.
Look we can talk hypothetical problems all day, but all in all I just think that unofficial un-unanimously agreed upon arbitrary rules set by only a few fans upon other fans, should not be actually employed. And the people who were first in line in the case of Wrigley 2, were not doing anything wrongAnd I'm not talking about arbitrary rules. The people who get there first are first in line and first through the gates. This is widely accepted in all areas.I'm curious what you think proper handling by security in the 8:00 am scenario looks like? Maybe having people form a line who are already there?0 -
ascahn said:I’ll take this opportunity to give my side of a story that occurred in the the GA line for the Monday show with information going back to the Saturday show.
As I have never been on the rail before, our party of 4 decided to try and make that happen. Prior to the first Wrigley show, we were aware of the 8:00 am lineup rule and checked the line several times throughout the night to see if anyone had begun to line up or if everyone was adhering to that rule. It was at 6:20 am on Saturday when we found that a line had been started and we entered that line. Clearly not everyone adhered to the 8:00 am rule.
Moving forward to Sunday night and knowing that the 8:00 am rule was not going to be followed, we stood at the designated area, off of Cubs property, the same exact spot that the line began for the previous show. If not everyone was going to follow the rules, then I see it as fair game.
Now, it becomes apparent that there is a group of Ten Club members with apparent Australian accents and a very cult like bearded leader that appear on the rail at just about show, including the Wrigley 1 show where they were at the front of the line as usual. You don’t have to search too hard to find or recognize this “fan”. I would be happy to provide a picture to anyone that asks. After sitting for about 3 hours, a member of their group which, at this time, appears to number in the range of 30-40 people, approaches us and inquired as to what we are doing. We said we are waiting. We were then told that what we were doing was not good and they offered to let us in to their group where we could be added to their list. When we reminded this person that, as per TC rules, there are not to be any lists, we were told that the outcome of this would not work out well for us. There would be an additional 4 people that work come over from their group and do the exact thing over the next several hours, even telling us what number we would be on that list. We declined every time to join there list citing the Ten Club rules on lists and numbering systems. Several times we were even told that Ten Club and Ten Club Security approved of their system and authorized them to continue to do it that way. When we asked to be shown this document nothing was ever shown. We were told that we were “cutting in their line”, when in fact, we had started the line. At any time they could have lined up behind us.
Moving forward to 4:00 am on Monday morning, it became very apparent that 4:00 am was the time given to others to arrive as no less than 8 vehicles arrived and dropped off people that went straight to the group that had assembled in front of Murphy’s on the southeast corner of Waveland and and Sheffield. Sometime about 5:30 am or so every person in that group ran at the same time across Waveland Ave and line up on Cubs property where the official line would be moved to at 8:00. Once there, they were put into order from a list carried by one of the female Australians that travels with this group. Not long after, they were removed from that property, by security I assume, and moved behind where we were lined up. It was at this time that the now 5 of us ahead of them would be verbally abused and attempts to intimidate us were made. This would be a constant stream until 8:00 am, when we were all moved to the start of the official line on Cubs property. Again, we were at the front of the line having not been intimidated from their constant stream of attempted bullying and verbal abuse. Members of there group began to take pictures and video of us, with which they proceeded to post on various Ten Club and PJ Facebook groups, lying about how we cut into the line, and calling us names. Many comments were made by others, some suggested violence against us and others laced with profanity towards us. Can someone explain to me how a group of 5 could cut in front of a group of roughly 70 and not physically removed? Really? This group got people to believe that our group of 5 just walked in front of their group of 70 and muscled them out of the way and they let it happen? We became a group of 4 at this time, as one member of our group decided to leave due to the circumstances. Again, we did not “cut” into the line, we started the line. They had every right to start the line at the designated spot as they did for the previous show and they chose not too. They somehow thought that their list was law, even though Ten Club prohibits lists. We chose to not be intimidated and stand out ground.
Soon after we moved, in order, to the offical line at 8:00, security became involved and a discussion began. Their group of 70 all began to lie about what happened, saying they had no list and we cut to the front. I then showed the security personnel the Ten Club rules on unofficial lists and numbering systems and how they are prohibited. Security then decided to bring in event staff to further assist. Again their group shouted and screamed and I asked the event staff to read the same Ten Club rules. After discussion, event staff decided that we would stay at they front of the line and that any further issues of intimidation or threats would result in that person behind removed from the GA line.
For the the next 8 hours we endured a continuous stream of subtle intimidation and even had people come up to us from the street to call us names and make faces. One of these people made a video andnposted to several Facebook groups in which he told us that we would have beer dumped on us all night for what we did. We had several people come to us in the front of the line asking us if this is where they receive their number. It was obvious that some people were told by the group to stop by the front of the line to find your number, as they would be in the front of the line. A pretty telling detail.
Eventually, we enterered through security and into Wrigley Field, where there were still members of that group trying to intimidate us. We all know the rain that followed and we chose not to enter the melee that followed to get back into GA after the storm, instead watching from the back.
This group, that contains many Australians, is on the rail at what may very well be every opportunity to do so. How can that be? Every time? They all win GA tickets and are lucky enough to be at the front of the GA line every show? The odds on this happening randomly would be huge. Only it’s not happening randomly. Their system is in place and they intimidate anyone that might get in the way of them being first. It is very much like a
cult. The tactics that they used, the mode by which they organized, the intimidation they attempted. When we didn’t break or give in to them, they turned to social media to spread lies, trying to make themselves, this group that far outnumbered the 4 of us, look like victims. We had no way to get our side of the story to those same people, so we must be in the wrong. It’s sad, but we stood up for ourselves and I would do it again the exact same way if I had to. The clear leaders of this group appear to be all Australians. Their tactics need to be stopped. Everyone that is a member of Ten Club and purchases their GA tickets should have the same opportunities to experience a show from the rail if that’s what they choose. They shouldn’t have to abide by the rules and lies of a group who have decided to claim the rail every show and that if you don’t join their group, you will never have a chance to experience a show from the rail.
I know this was a crazy crazy long post, but there is no other way to get the story across. There are certainly details that haven’t been added that I would gladly discuss with anyone that would care to hear them. I also have many pictures to support my claims if anyone is interested and feels like they need additional proof. I could have put those pictures all over Facebook groups as well, but I chose not too. Anyone is certainly free to make their own decision as to whom they thought were right or wrong. I just ask that you make an educated decision based on as much factual information as possible and not just base your decision based on who can yell and scream the loudest. Thanks for reading.
I do hope I get to read other points of view from the "list" group.0 -
ForceofNature101 said:iwasthere said:This Springsteen system sounds amazing.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
And I'm not talking about arbitrary rules. The people who get there first are first in line and first through the gates. This is widely accepted in all areas.
And well if you want a proper way to handle it, apparently Wrigley has many concerts and the 8am thing is assumed to be a thing at every show, no? And there is no reported crazy mobs, so maybe call them up - I don't mean that in a condescending way at all, but just I have followed many bands and been to many shows and PJ is the only band where this line issue has really happened in such a big way. I am sure not every band that plays there have the exact same "unofficial line rules" set by fans like this and it must be going well.Post edited by ForceofNature101 on0 -
ForceofNature101 said:And I'm not talking about arbitrary rules. The people who get there first are first in line and first through the gates. This is widely accepted in all areas.
And well if you want a proper way to handle it, apparently Wrigley has many concerts and the 8am thing is assumed to be a thing at every show, no? And there is no reported crazy mobs, so maybe call them up - I don't mean that in a condescending way at all, but just I have followed many bands and been to many shows and PJ is the only band where this line issue has really happened in such a big way. I am sure not every band that plays there have the exact same "unofficial line rules" set by fans like this and it must be going well.
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oops wrong thread.Post edited by Travels With on“I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless.” ― John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley: In Search of America0
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iwasthere said:Gtilley8 said:Bentleyspop said:Which of you Americans are going to fly all the way to Australia? To Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, etc. Just to sit on sidewalks day after day after day, see some concerts, and then fly back home?
2000 - 8/21 - Columbus, OH
2003 - 6/18 - Chicago, IL
2006 - 5/22 - Auburn Hills, MI
2007 - 8/5 - Chicago, IL
2015 - 9/26 - New York, NY
2016 - 4/16 - Greenville, SC; 8/20 - Chicago, IL; 8/22 - Chicago, IL
2018 - 8/18 - Chicago, IL; 8/20 - Chicago, IL
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=30450 -
ascahn said:I’ll take this opportunity to give my side of a story that occurred in the the GA line for the Monday show with information going back to the Saturday show.
As I have never been on the rail before, our party of 4 decided to try and make that happen. Prior to the first Wrigley show, we were aware of the 8:00 am lineup rule and checked the line several times throughout the night to see if anyone had begun to line up or if everyone was adhering to that rule. It was at 6:20 am on Saturday when we found that a line had been started and we entered that line. Clearly not everyone adhered to the 8:00 am rule.
Moving forward to Sunday night and knowing that the 8:00 am rule was not going to be followed, we stood at the designated area, off of Cubs property, the same exact spot that the line began for the previous show. If not everyone was going to follow the rules, then I see it as fair game.
Now, it becomes apparent that there is a group of Ten Club members with apparent Australian accents and a very cult like bearded leader that appear on the rail at just about show, including the Wrigley 1 show where they were at the front of the line as usual. You don’t have to search too hard to find or recognize this “fan”. I would be happy to provide a picture to anyone that asks. After sitting for about 3 hours, a member of their group which, at this time, appears to number in the range of 30-40 people, approaches us and inquired as to what we are doing. We said we are waiting. We were then told that what we were doing was not good and they offered to let us in to their group where we could be added to their list. When we reminded this person that, as per TC rules, there are not to be any lists, we were told that the outcome of this would not work out well for us. There would be an additional 4 people that work come over from their group and do the exact thing over the next several hours, even telling us what number we would be on that list. We declined every time to join there list citing the Ten Club rules on lists and numbering systems. Several times we were even told that Ten Club and Ten Club Security approved of their system and authorized them to continue to do it that way. When we asked to be shown this document nothing was ever shown. We were told that we were “cutting in their line”, when in fact, we had started the line. At any time they could have lined up behind us.
Moving forward to 4:00 am on Monday morning, it became very apparent that 4:00 am was the time given to others to arrive as no less than 8 vehicles arrived and dropped off people that went straight to the group that had assembled in front of Murphy’s on the southeast corner of Waveland and and Sheffield. Sometime about 5:30 am or so every person in that group ran at the same time across Waveland Ave and line up on Cubs property where the official line would be moved to at 8:00. Once there, they were put into order from a list carried by one of the female Australians that travels with this group. Not long after, they were removed from that property, by security I assume, and moved behind where we were lined up. It was at this time that the now 5 of us ahead of them would be verbally abused and attempts to intimidate us were made. This would be a constant stream until 8:00 am, when we were all moved to the start of the official line on Cubs property. Again, we were at the front of the line having not been intimidated from their constant stream of attempted bullying and verbal abuse. Members of there group began to take pictures and video of us, with which they proceeded to post on various Ten Club and PJ Facebook groups, lying about how we cut into the line, and calling us names. Many comments were made by others, some suggested violence against us and others laced with profanity towards us. Can someone explain to me how a group of 5 could cut in front of a group of roughly 70 and not physically removed? Really? This group got people to believe that our group of 5 just walked in front of their group of 70 and muscled them out of the way and they let it happen? We became a group of 4 at this time, as one member of our group decided to leave due to the circumstances. Again, we did not “cut” into the line, we started the line. They had every right to start the line at the designated spot as they did for the previous show and they chose not too. They somehow thought that their list was law, even though Ten Club prohibits lists. We chose to not be intimidated and stand out ground.
Soon after we moved, in order, to the offical line at 8:00, security became involved and a discussion began. Their group of 70 all began to lie about what happened, saying they had no list and we cut to the front. I then showed the security personnel the Ten Club rules on unofficial lists and numbering systems and how they are prohibited. Security then decided to bring in event staff to further assist. Again their group shouted and screamed and I asked the event staff to read the same Ten Club rules. After discussion, event staff decided that we would stay at they front of the line and that any further issues of intimidation or threats would result in that person behind removed from the GA line.
For the the next 8 hours we endured a continuous stream of subtle intimidation and even had people come up to us from the street to call us names and make faces. One of these people made a video andnposted to several Facebook groups in which he told us that we would have beer dumped on us all night for what we did. We had several people come to us in the front of the line asking us if this is where they receive their number. It was obvious that some people were told by the group to stop by the front of the line to find your number, as they would be in the front of the line. A pretty telling detail.
Eventually, we enterered through security and into Wrigley Field, where there were still members of that group trying to intimidate us. We all know the rain that followed and we chose not to enter the melee that followed to get back into GA after the storm, instead watching from the back.
This group, that contains many Australians, is on the rail at what may very well be every opportunity to do so. How can that be? Every time? They all win GA tickets and are lucky enough to be at the front of the GA line every show? The odds on this happening randomly would be huge. Only it’s not happening randomly. Their system is in place and they intimidate anyone that might get in the way of them being first. It is very much like a
cult. The tactics that they used, the mode by which they organized, the intimidation they attempted. When we didn’t break or give in to them, they turned to social media to spread lies, trying to make themselves, this group that far outnumbered the 4 of us, look like victims. We had no way to get our side of the story to those same people, so we must be in the wrong. It’s sad, but we stood up for ourselves and I would do it again the exact same way if I had to. The clear leaders of this group appear to be all Australians. Their tactics need to be stopped. Everyone that is a member of Ten Club and purchases their GA tickets should have the same opportunities to experience a show from the rail if that’s what they choose. They shouldn’t have to abide by the rules and lies of a group who have decided to claim the rail every show and that if you don’t join their group, you will never have a chance to experience a show from the rail.
I know this was a crazy crazy long post, but there is no other way to get the story across. There are certainly details that haven’t been added that I would gladly discuss with anyone that would care to hear them. I also have many pictures to support my claims if anyone is interested and feels like they need additional proof. I could have put those pictures all over Facebook groups as well, but I chose not too. Anyone is certainly free to make their own decision as to whom they thought were right or wrong. I just ask that you make an educated decision based on as much factual information as possible and not just base your decision based on who can yell and scream the loudest. Thanks for reading.
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BCBA said:Loose and vague rules, and the laughable notion this fan base can self-police only favors the bold and the cliques. We have "fans" buying loads of stuff to exploit other fans via raffles, "flash sales", and auctions all over the known map. Fans will do anything to get a leg up.0
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timdwilli said:Ledbetterman10 said:bootlegger10 said:Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.0
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Gern Blansten said:ForceofNature101 said:iwasthere said:This Springsteen system sounds amazing.
Anyway, point being that when I got there (about an hour before they let the GA peopl in) I was curious how long the people waiting longest were. And it was always at least since the night before.
Me, I was deliriously happy with my seats for 3 of the 4 shows. And for the last 2 I got to watch Lars Ulrich air drum to Phil Selway's drumming while also watching the show, which was just too much fun to watch!Post edited by JH6056 on0 -
Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:And I'm not talking about arbitrary rules. The people who get there first are first in line and first through the gates. This is widely accepted in all areas.
And well if you want a proper way to handle it, apparently Wrigley has many concerts and the 8am thing is assumed to be a thing at every show, no? And there is no reported crazy mobs, so maybe call them up - I don't mean that in a condescending way at all, but just I have followed many bands and been to many shows and PJ is the only band where this line issue has really happened in such a big way. I am sure not every band that plays there have the exact same "unofficial line rules" set by fans like this and it must be going well.
But the original point, about this guy and the people he was with getting first in line, if I were "the Aussies" I would have left it at the line after the security guard told them they did nothing wrong. I wouldn't have bullied him in line for hours making remarks, I wouldn't have tried to video shame him, and I certainly wouldn't have made such a big fuss over an amount of people that is no more than less than what you can count on one hand.
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have any of these "Aussies" responded to this thread? Or maybe they are only 10c members to get GA tickets & bully the GA line?0
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Go Beavers said:ForceofNature101 said:Go Beavers said:bootlegger10 said:Why would I honor a line that starts before 8am if the official line up is not allowed until 8am? I can’t help what people chose to do and where with their time before 8am.
Oh you hung out on the sidewalk by murphy’s The last two days? That’s odd.0
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