Report details sexual abuse by more than 300 priests in Pennsylvania's Catholic Church

pjhawks said:

j1kotwic said:

pjhawks said:

Bentleyspop said:

About 30 years ago i asked a very catholic co-worker what she thought about the latest catholic priest child abuse scandal and her response  was  " there are no gay priests". This from an educated person.

I tried to explain  the difference between a homosexuality and a pedophile but she wasn't  having it.

To this day the catholic church and its adherents have their collective and complic heads in the sand and should be ashamed that they still allow this horror and coverup to continue.

I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic grade school.  No  longer practicing for many reasons but I still know many people who still participate. It boggles my mind sometimes to think these same people would never go to any other place or send their children to any other place that has harbored more pedophile's than the Catholic church.  it's disgusting how little moral outrage there is from practicing Catholics on this issue.

Edit: and that report doesn't include the Archdiocese of Philadelphia which is the largest in the state of Pennsylvania so that is only a portion of the cases.

 

1.2 billion Catholics are complicit and not outraged by this? Im a practicing catholic and I am outraged. I guess I must be an anomaly.

What is it called when you judge an entire group of people based on the action (or inaction) of a few)? 

where is the outrage? where is calls for these fuckers to be put in prison. not just the ones who did these deeds but the ones who harbored them? i see and hear none of that. I'm in the Philly were this story makes the news. all i see are fake boring it's bad it shouldn't have happened type comments.   but hey one of the Allentown churches had a pray for forgiveness night tonight. yup that's what those fuckers need...forgiveness.  thoughts and prayers.

the outrage over Penn State in this country was far greater than i see or hear about the Catholic Church. and that was one man who committed the acts, not thousands.

Part of the notoriety with Penn State was that it illustrated in a very simple story how entire organizations can turn their collective heads and skip basic decency in favor of protecting image.   That’s true of the church, too, but that one was sort of out of the blue and eye-opening.  Sadly the church is so deep that I think people are decensitized.

pjhawks said:

j1kotwic said:

pjhawks said:

Bentleyspop said:

About 30 years ago i asked a very catholic co-worker what she thought about the latest catholic priest child abuse scandal and her response  was  " there are no gay priests". This from an educated person.

I tried to explain  the difference between a homosexuality and a pedophile but she wasn't  having it.

To this day the catholic church and its adherents have their collective and complic heads in the sand and should be ashamed that they still allow this horror and coverup to continue.

I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic grade school.  No  longer practicing for many reasons but I still know many people who still participate. It boggles my mind sometimes to think these same people would never go to any other place or send their children to any other place that has harbored more pedophile's than the Catholic church.  it's disgusting how little moral outrage there is from practicing Catholics on this issue.

Edit: and that report doesn't include the Archdiocese of Philadelphia which is the largest in the state of Pennsylvania so that is only a portion of the cases.

 

1.2 billion Catholics are complicit and not outraged by this? Im a practicing catholic and I am outraged. I guess I must be an anomaly.

What is it called when you judge an entire group of people based on the action (or inaction) of a few)? 

where is the outrage? where is calls for these fuckers to be put in prison. not just the ones who did these deeds but the ones who harbored them? i see and hear none of that. I'm in the Philly were this story makes the news. all i see are fake boring it's bad it shouldn't have happened type comments.   but hey one of the Allentown churches had a pray for forgiveness night tonight. yup that's what those fuckers need...forgiveness.  thoughts and prayers.

the outrage over Penn State in this country was far greater than i see or hear about the Catholic Church. and that was one man who committed the acts, not thousands.

Your position is that all Catholics are okay with rape? There is outrage among all the Catholics I know. How many catholics do you know that are not outraged? Or dont you associate with Catholics because that is beneath you?

Those who committed these disgusting acts and those who knew and didn't report them need to be locked up and the key thrown away. You honestly think that all Catholics are okay with this? I would agree with you if you had said that several hundred out of 1.2 billion are okay with rape. Well I guess they're more than okay with it. That would be fair. That's like 0.00000001% of Catholics or whatever. I demand to see that number to be zero. I want to see the church accept responsibility and those involved punished to the full extent of the law. Most importantly the church needs to implement new measures to ensure this never happens again once and for all. This way Catholics can continue with full focus on all of the good things we do for this world. I understand most people on here hate Catholic people and you are hoping this awful scandal will help advance your desire for a secular society. But I'm shocked that so many on here are so openly prejudice against Catholics. Maybe check with 10 club and see if they can ban Catholics if you feel so strongly about all Catholics being terrible people. I imagine there's quite a few Catholic PJ fans but they're not on this forum to speak out because they know they will be judged and ostracized by this group... unless any other Catholics on here that can come to my defense? I wont hold my breath. I bet there's a lot of Catholic PJ fans at the South American shows. Maybe the band should stop touring there in protest of the Catholic church.

Just one of many examples.  
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/catholics-twitter-demand-church-sex-abuse-reform_us_5b75898be4b02b415d763785

XM catholic radio and the catholic FM channel in my area were also discussing this issue and calling for action. Were you guys tuned in? 

Another example of catholic outrage:
Me on this forum expressing my outrage, knowing that most on here have a problem with my religious affiliation and therefore a problem with me as a person. 

j1kotwic said:

pjhawks said:

j1kotwic said:

pjhawks said:

Bentleyspop said:

About 30 years ago i asked a very catholic co-worker what she thought about the latest catholic priest child abuse scandal and her response  was  " there are no gay priests". This from an educated person.

I tried to explain  the difference between a homosexuality and a pedophile but she wasn't  having it.

To this day the catholic church and its adherents have their collective and complic heads in the sand and should be ashamed that they still allow this horror and coverup to continue.

I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic grade school.  No  longer practicing for many reasons but I still know many people who still participate. It boggles my mind sometimes to think these same people would never go to any other place or send their children to any other place that has harbored more pedophile's than the Catholic church.  it's disgusting how little moral outrage there is from practicing Catholics on this issue.

Edit: and that report doesn't include the Archdiocese of Philadelphia which is the largest in the state of Pennsylvania so that is only a portion of the cases.

 

1.2 billion Catholics are complicit and not outraged by this? Im a practicing catholic and I am outraged. I guess I must be an anomaly.

What is it called when you judge an entire group of people based on the action (or inaction) of a few)? 

where is the outrage? where is calls for these fuckers to be put in prison. not just the ones who did these deeds but the ones who harbored them? i see and hear none of that. I'm in the Philly were this story makes the news. all i see are fake boring it's bad it shouldn't have happened type comments.   but hey one of the Allentown churches had a pray for forgiveness night tonight. yup that's what those fuckers need...forgiveness.  thoughts and prayers.

the outrage over Penn State in this country was far greater than i see or hear about the Catholic Church. and that was one man who committed the acts, not thousands.

Your position is that all Catholics are okay with rape? There is outrage among all the Catholics I know. How many catholics do you know that are not outraged? Or dont you associate with Catholics because that is beneath you?

Those who committed these disgusting acts and those who knew and didn't report them need to be locked up and the key thrown away. You honestly think that all Catholics are okay with this? I would agree with you if you had said that several hundred out of 1.2 billion are okay with rape. Well I guess they're more than okay with it. That would be fair. That's like 0.00000001% of Catholics or whatever. I demand to see that number to be zero. I want to see the church accept responsibility and those involved punished to the full extent of the law. Most importantly the church needs to implement new measures to ensure this never happens again once and for all. This way Catholics can continue with full focus on all of the good things we do for this world. I understand most people on here hate Catholic people and you are hoping this awful scandal will help advance your desire for a secular society. But I'm shocked that so many on here are so openly prejudice against Catholics. Maybe check with 10 club and see if they can ban Catholics if you feel so strongly about all Catholics being terrible people. I imagine there's quite a few Catholic PJ fans but they're not on this forum to speak out because they know they will be judged and ostracized by this group... unless any other Catholics on here that can come to my defense? I wont hold my breath. I bet there's a lot of Catholic PJ fans at the South American shows. Maybe the band should stop touring there in protest of the Catholic church.

Just one of many examples.  
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/catholics-twitter-demand-church-sex-abuse-reform_us_5b75898be4b02b415d763785

XM catholic radio and the catholic FM channel in my area were also discussing this issue and calling for action. Were you guys tuned in? 

Another example of catholic outrage:
Me on this forum expressing my outrage, knowing that most on here have a problem with my religious affiliation and therefore a problem with me as a person. 

Your assertion that only “several hundred” are okay with what has happened is a vast underestimate. This is a horrendous problem that the church as a whole has been aware of for decades at least but which has likely gone on for centuries. The church leadership at virtually all levels has essentially abdicated responsibility and has chosen to protect and shelter the abusers instead of the abused, again and again. Those involved in that number in at least the thousands, and they are in positions of authority. The church membership has similarly failed to demand action and accountability despite having this knowledge, or willfully ignoring it, for decades. 

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The Catholic Church has been fraught with pedophiles since day one. 

One can look at residential schools in Canada (which were horror houses) as a classic example of a more recent past marked by sickness. And nothing has changed: it's been business as usual in modern day churches- as evidenced in this most understated and completely obscene story.

The level of complicity is hard to determine with any great degree of accuracy, but aside from the number of actual deviants themselves which is staggering... church officials, some parents, and others associated with the church (that know about the abuse but do not disclose) comprise a number far greater than 'just a few'.

To boot... if an organization I was involved with was exposed as abusing children on a grand scale... I would not be supporting it in any way and would be looking to remove myself from it in every manner possible. If I was to maintain my status as a contributing member... well... 

Horrific, this went on for some time, many many knew of it that were not directly involved and they said nothing. 

Crimes like this can only exist on this scale because of those who enable such behaviours. That should not ever be forgotten. Laws of the land exist to address such immorality, it is the enablers that allow it continue. 

Just think that those that covered for these fucking monsters consider themselves men and women of God. Fuck their God. Bring the whole thing down, if you knew and said nothing you are a criminal.

I took a tour of the Vatican Museum (collections of artifacts acquired by theft and greed) and thought they are going to have to sell every last one of these items if they were sued for all their abuses.  It is a despicable organization.

Outrage, what a joke.

You'll still be there, you'll still put money in the pot, you'll still defend the church by playing the "poor bullied Catholic" line...bottom line, you will take money out of your pocket this week and forever to pay child rapists and their protectors no matter how many kids get raped.

One of the priests was the priest at my church. And Bishop Timlin of Scranton gave me my confirmation (some stupid sacrament for those unfamiliar). Timlin paid a 17-year-old girl $75,000 (that's money out of the collections basket that goes around at masses) to keep quiet about being raped and impregnated by a priest. He went on to write a letter saying how he shares in the grief and knows how hard this is for you. The letter wasn't to the girl that was raped, IT WAS TO THE RAPIST PRIEST!

rgambs said:

Outrage, what a joke.

You'll still be there, you'll still put money in the pot, you'll still defend the church by playing the "poor bullied Catholic" line...bottom line, you will take money out of your pocket this week and forever to pay child rapists and their protectors no matter how many kids get raped.

Because of the scandals that have continued to plague the catholic church, you and many on here have judged 1/7th of the world's population and declared all catholics to be in favor of or complicit with rape and therefore bad people. I expect outrage towards those involved and those who allowed it to happen. But did not expect to see so much widespread hate towards so many who have no involvement.  Because we put money in the basket? We have many poor at mass who do not put money in because they can't afford it. Are they bad people? Or is it just people who give money? Tell me, the people that give money are they giving it because they believe it is going towards a good cause? What pretenses are they giving money?  Think it's going to the salvation army, red cross, people in need? Pay the utilities at the church?  This is where my church's donations go. Or do you just see it as a billion people donating into a rapist priest defense fund?  Seems like the latter is the way you guys see it. This is what you want to believe? If that's the case than just fuck it, humanity is doomed. Fucking cynics.  

And no, Not a poor bullied catholic here. Im not looking for sympathy or your approval. Don't need it.  Im just saying you guys are generalizing and judging so many people and it's wrong. Im honestly surprised to see that here. Most Catholics are good people. Just like most Jews are good people. Just like most muslims are good people. Just like most atheists are good people. Just like most humans are good people...  

There are some bad people that have infiltrated the catholic religion just as they do in society. Some church leadership protected these horrible criminals and ruined people's lives. They put the public relations of the catholic church before its own people and it is so wrong. The fact that there has been a 70 year history of this and the grand jury found that this behavior is continuing is despicable. Very dark times to be a catholic.  

But get out of here with your "1.2 billion catholic people are bad people who are complicit with rape" bullshit. Be angry with rapists, the enablers, protectors and church leadership who allowed this to happen. Dont be angry with the catholic person who truly lives the faith, loves one another and respects all human life. 

j1kotwic said:

rgambs said:

Outrage, what a joke.

You'll still be there, you'll still put money in the pot, you'll still defend the church by playing the "poor bullied Catholic" line...bottom line, you will take money out of your pocket this week and forever to pay child rapists and their protectors no matter how many kids get raped.

Because of the scandals that have continued to plague the catholic church, you and many on here have judged 1/7th of the world's population and declared all catholics to be in favor of or complicit with rape and therefore bad people. I expect outrage towards those involved and those who allowed it to happen. But did not expect to see so much widespread hate towards so many who have no involvement.  Because we put money in the basket? We have many poor at mass who do not put money in because they can't afford it. Are they bad people? Or is it just people who give money? Tell me, the people that give money are they giving it because they believe it is going towards a good cause? What pretenses are they giving money?  Think it's going to the salvation army, red cross, people in need? Pay the utilities at the church?  This is where my church's donations go. Or do you just see it as a billion people donating into a rapist priest defense fund?  Seems like the latter is the way you guys see it. This is what you want to believe? If that's the case than just fuck it, humanity is doomed. Fucking cynics.  

And no, Not a poor bullied catholic here. Im not looking for sympathy or your approval. Don't need it.  Im just saying you guys are generalizing and judging so many people and it's wrong. Im honestly surprised to see that here. Most Catholics are good people. Just like most Jews are good people. Just like most muslims are good people. Just like most atheists are good people. Just like most humans are good people...  

There are some bad people that have infiltrated the catholic religion just as they do in society. Some church leadership protected these horrible criminals and ruined people's lives. They put the public relations of the catholic church before its own people and it is so wrong. The fact that there has been a 70 year history of this and the grand jury found that this behavior is continuing is despicable. Very dark times to be a catholic.  

But get out of here with your "1.2 billion catholic people are bad people who are complicit with rape" bullshit. Be angry with rapists, the enablers, protectors and church leadership who allowed this to happen. Dont be angry with the catholic person who truly lives the faith, loves one another and respects all human life. 

If you want to try to understand, read your post and replace every mention of or reference to the church with the Mafia, the Taliban, or some crazy child-polygamy cult.  

It doesn't matter how many people practice the magic rituals, billions doesn't change anything.  Nobody thinks all Catholics are bad people, we all understand that in their personal lives, they are just like everyone else...shitty to awesome, the whole spectrum.

The problem we have is that your sick fucking institution has you all brainwashed to circle the wagons and defend the Church no matter what.
"Some" "some" "some"... That's minimizing and compartmentalizing 101.

j1kotwic said:

rgambs said:

Outrage, what a joke.

You'll still be there, you'll still put money in the pot, you'll still defend the church by playing the "poor bullied Catholic" line...bottom line, you will take money out of your pocket this week and forever to pay child rapists and their protectors no matter how many kids get raped.

Because of the scandals that have continued to plague the catholic church, you and many on here have judged 1/7th of the world's population and declared all catholics to be in favor of or complicit with rape and therefore bad people. I expect outrage towards those involved and those who allowed it to happen. But did not expect to see so much widespread hate towards so many who have no involvement.  Because we put money in the basket? We have many poor at mass who do not put money in because they can't afford it. Are they bad people? Or is it just people who give money? Tell me, the people that give money are they giving it because they believe it is going towards a good cause? What pretenses are they giving money?  Think it's going to the salvation army, red cross, people in need? Pay the utilities at the church?  This is where my church's donations go. Or do you just see it as a billion people donating into a rapist priest defense fund?  Seems like the latter is the way you guys see it. This is what you want to believe? If that's the case than just fuck it, humanity is doomed. Fucking cynics.  

And no, Not a poor bullied catholic here. Im not looking for sympathy or your approval. Don't need it.  Im just saying you guys are generalizing and judging so many people and it's wrong. Im honestly surprised to see that here. Most Catholics are good people. Just like most Jews are good people. Just like most muslims are good people. Just like most atheists are good people. Just like most humans are good people...  

There are some bad people that have infiltrated the catholic religion just as they do in society. Some church leadership protected these horrible criminals and ruined people's lives. They put the public relations of the catholic church before its own people and it is so wrong. The fact that there has been a 70 year history of this and the grand jury found that this behavior is continuing is despicable. Very dark times to be a catholic.  

But get out of here with your "1.2 billion catholic people are bad people who are complicit with rape" bullshit. Be angry with rapists, the enablers, protectors and church leadership who allowed this to happen. Dont be angry with the catholic person who truly lives the faith, loves one another and respects all human life. 

As a Jew, if I heard about a conscious and systemic effort to rape, support rape, or conceal rape within the organization, I would not give a fucking cent to it ever again. The strength of my spirituality should never depend on donations anyways.

A government is accountable to its constitution, but a corporation or a religion (which I don't frankly differentiate between much) only has accountability thrust on it by its clients/funders. Since the only way the catholic church is able to systemically rape and cover it up is with its members' funds, it goes to say that every catholic who is aware of this systemic behaviour is technically complicit (though to a very small degree per person).

Personally, I'm always vying for full transparency. If the raping continues, I'd at least love for catholics to know their percentage of monies in the basket going towards raping or recovering from raping (as priests, of course, they're the truly traumatized ones in all of this). I think it'd be nice every Christmas, to send out Seasons Greetings notices. "Hey John, haven't seen you in a while! Just wanted you to know that 3.2% of every Church donation goes towards the systemic rape the Church performs on behalf of Jesus, and this is all thanks to strong-valued Catholics as yourself. This year alone, we've managed to 'rape' (our lawyers forced us to put it in quotes) 3,000 children of God, and relocate the 50 men of God responsible. This is exactly what Jesus would have done. Happy Christmas to all!"