U.S. National Parks thread

jerparker20 said:

Meltdown99 said:

The best National Parks are the most remote ... way less people.

Not totally true.  If your sole purpose of visiting a National Park is to avoid people, then you should avoid National Parks. They attract people, even the remote ones.  I visited Isle Royale this past June which is a remote park and one of the least visited.  I still encountered people.  It comes down to timing visits and activities to reduce the people aspect.  Couple things I've found to minimize crowds and still enjoy myself and the wonders of nature:

1.  If possible visit parks during off-peak times of the year like the spring or fall instead of the summer.  Also visit during the week and not weekends.
2. Start activities like hikes early in the morning (6AM).  I've found the average park visitor doesn't get moving until well after 9am.
3. Go on hiking trails/loops that are over 3 miles in length.  The average park visitor is not going to spend several hours completing those hikes, and if they do they usually turn around by the 1 mile point.

PJ_Soul said:

Yeah, forest service or hydro campsites up here can have some pretty gnarly guests too, lol. Although I have still always favoured them in BC... I don't know what such places are like generally, but I've managed to find a few that are in absolutely spectacular settings, and well worth tolerating a few yahoos once in a while (I will admit that story I've told before about that one time I ran into a guy who was actually packing heat in Canada is a story from one of those campsites, lol). Obviously these places have the great benefit of not being packed with fucking kids. That is a BIG positive feature for me. Most parents want amenities when they camp with children, so aren't humping it up to a remote hydro campsite that only has an outhouse and maybe a water pump if we're lucky.

I would give you a pass...but label you a Note Dame Fatass.

That hurts

For anyone planning a trip to Yosemite right now... the entire park has been completely closed due to wild fires. I think they said they expect it will be closed through the weekend.

PJ_Soul said:

For anyone planning a trip to Yosemite right now... the entire park has been completely closed due to wild fires. I think they said they expect it will be closed through the weekend.

Bummer.  Not a great time to go to Yosemite either.  Hot weather and very smokey from the big Ferguson fire not far to the west of the park.  Lots of smoke and haze from recent photos I've seen. 

It's interesting we were just talking about overcrowding at parks, I was thinking about it quite a bit while I visited an area which has become overused for it's capacity.
The Nordhouse Dunes National Wilderness (very small, only a few thousand acres) is bordered by Lake Michigan Recreation Area and Ludington State Park to the north and south, and Manistee National Forest and the big lake to the east and west.
LMRA and Ludington are both controlled fee sites, and are both very popular.  The National Forest is the most used entry point to the wilderness because hiking up or down the beach is very difficult in soft sand that is very steep in many spots.  It all makes for an interesting intersection of accessibility.  We stayed in an improved but primitive campground and then drove to the trailhead for a backpack trip.  The trail to the wilderness dunes is only .75 miles.  Once you reach the dunes hiking becomes incredibly difficult, but it also becomes unnecessary because the dunes create pockets for campsites that allows a high density of campers.  There is no permit system, so the trailhead fills early and then people park off the road for almost a mile up the road.  The dunes are fragile and people climb all over them, creating new erosions all the time.  People hike in coolers full of beer, firewood, charcoal grills and steak, etc etc.
At the public beach there were frat boys playing beer pong with sorority type girls in thong bikinis.  People had stereos and giant umbrellas and kids were digging giant holes in the sand while their parents literally slept in the sun... and then, the most surprising thing of all...I didn't hate any of them or care about any of it. 
I was watching Simon climb this steep dune that should not have been climbed and I started to tell him to get down, and I saw his face was just lit up.  I thought about what that must be to him, a motherfucking sand mountain all his own to explore.  Lucky damn kid, I wish I had more experiences like that as a child.  I looked around at all the other overused dunes nearby, and realized there were 2 that were pristine for every one with footprints.  I thought about my map studies in the beta stage, and the fact that only 5% of the dune complex is accessible for any but the hardiest.  I thought about the fact that the dunes are only a few thousand years old and in a few thousand years they will be gone with or without human impact.  I looked all weekend and didn't see hardly any trash and people weren't being obnoxious, at least beyond the capacity of the dunes to negate.  I  thought about all those things and I lightened up.  I thought about how i wanted Simon to have easy access to cool places and I thought, shit, if I was a local youngster I'd want to play beer pong with girls in thongs too!

I guess having a child has softened my stance on overuse and accessibility a bit.  It will be years yet before we can get back into legit backcountry, and in the meantime we have to do family accessible things.  I want everyone to be able to enjoy nature and unfortunately that means some beautiful areas are going to get trampled and trashed. 
The backcountry will always be there for those who want to get away.

rgambs said:

It's interesting we were just talking about overcrowding at parks, I was thinking about it quite a bit while I visited an area which has become overused for it's capacity.
The Nordhouse Dunes National Wilderness (very small, only a few thousand acres) is bordered by Lake Michigan Recreation Area and Ludington State Park to the north and south, and Manistee National Forest and the big lake to the east and west.
LMRA and Ludington are both controlled fee sites, and are both very popular.  The National Forest is the most used entry point to the wilderness because hiking up or down the beach is very difficult in soft sand that is very steep in many spots.  It all makes for an interesting intersection of accessibility.  We stayed in an improved but primitive campground and then drove to the trailhead for a backpack trip.  The trail to the wilderness dunes is only .75 miles.  Once you reach the dunes hiking becomes incredibly difficult, but it also becomes unnecessary because the dunes create pockets for campsites that allows a high density of campers.  There is no permit system, so the trailhead fills early and then people park off the road for almost a mile up the road.  The dunes are fragile and people climb all over them, creating new erosions all the time.  People hike in coolers full of beer, firewood, charcoal grills and steak, etc etc.
At the public beach there were frat boys playing beer pong with sorority type girls in thong bikinis.  People had stereos and giant umbrellas and kids were digging giant holes in the sand while their parents literally slept in the sun... and then, the most surprising thing of all...I didn't hate any of them or care about any of it. 
I was watching Simon climb this steep dune that should not have been climbed and I started to tell him to get down, and I saw his face was just lit up.  I thought about what that must be to him, a motherfucking sand mountain all his own to explore.  Lucky damn kid, I wish I had more experiences like that as a child.  I looked around at all the other overused dunes nearby, and realized there were 2 that were pristine for every one with footprints.  I thought about my map studies in the beta stage, and the fact that only 5% of the dune complex is accessible for any but the hardiest.  I thought about the fact that the dunes are only a few thousand years old and in a few thousand years they will be gone with or without human impact.  I looked all weekend and didn't see hardly any trash and people weren't being obnoxious, at least beyond the capacity of the dunes to negate.  I  thought about all those things and I lightened up.  I thought about how i wanted Simon to have easy access to cool places and I thought, shit, if I was a local youngster I'd want to play beer pong with girls in thongs too!

I guess having a child has softened my stance on overuse and accessibility a bit.  It will be years yet before we can get back into legit backcountry, and in the meantime we have to do family accessible things.  I want everyone to be able to enjoy nature and unfortunately that means some beautiful areas are going to get trampled and trashed. 
The backcountry will always be there for those who want to get away.

Interesting take.  

Here in NY we have 4x4 passes(fishing passes) for beach access and they too can be crowded.  You can always tell whom isn't used to coming there, the trucks that form a circle or park parallel to the beach to take up more space than is needed.

But saying all that they all clean up their trash and leave only tire prints.

I now only go when there is inclement weather or off days to avoid the mad rush.  There is nothing like having a whole beach to yourself to do some surf casting!