Seattle Homelessness

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  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    That's a great program they got going.  I don't see why more communicates don't get creative like this...
    They did all over the US in the 60's and 70's.  We call them "the projects"  It was a failed social experiment that the government tried.

    "The projects" weren't really creative or innovative though.... I'm not even sure we can really called them a completely failed social experiment. I am aware of how it all turned out.... but they did also serve to house people. It was more like a project that had potential but was badly managed and only one-quarter completed than a failed social "experiment". It was certainly a case study in a poorly conceived and executed plan. If they had actually been a creative or innovative social plan, they probably would have worked!
    Not innovative?  They built state of the art high rises for a decent cost when there was nothing, housed those in need, provided schooling and food programs for those that needed.

    And yes they did fail.  I got to live by some of the worst ones ever.  They were a failure because the areas/society they were built in let them fail.  It's different when you got to see them up close and the bad things that happened in them and around them.

    Some of the projects are finally becoming blossoming areas.  It only took 3 generations to happen...
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited July 2018
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    That's a great program they got going.  I don't see why more communicates don't get creative like this...
    They did all over the US in the 60's and 70's.  We call them "the projects"  It was a failed social experiment that the government tried.

    "The projects" weren't really creative or innovative though.... I'm not even sure we can really called them a completely failed social experiment. I am aware of how it all turned out.... but they did also serve to house people. It was more like a project that had potential but was badly managed and only one-quarter completed than a failed social "experiment". It was certainly a case study in a poorly conceived and executed plan. If they had actually been a creative or innovative social plan, they probably would have worked!
    Not innovative?  They built state of the art high rises for a decent cost when there was nothing, housed those in need, provided schooling and food programs for those that needed.

    And yes they did fail.  I got to live by some of the worst ones ever.  They were a failure because the areas/society they were built in let them fail.  It's different when you got to see them up close and the bad things that happened in them and around them.

    Some of the projects are finally becoming blossoming areas.  It only took 3 generations to happen...
    That's not innovative IMO. I guess we have different definitions of innovation? To me, what you listed are just basic, regular ideas.

    I'm not saying the projects are awesome - as I said, I know all the issues with them quickly becoming ghettos. I just meant they didn't fail in the sense that they did put roofs over people's heads. That's it. And I think the "ghetto-ization" happened specifically because the plan wasn't innovative or diverse enough.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Speaking of public housing done well, here's an article from HuffPo this morning, describing how successful social housing is in Vienna, Austria.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/vienna-affordable-housing-paradise_us_5b4e0b12e4b0b15aba88c7b0
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    That's a great program they got going.  I don't see why more communicates don't get creative like this...
    They did all over the US in the 60's and 70's.  We call them "the projects"  It was a failed social experiment that the government tried.

    "The projects" weren't really creative or innovative though.... I'm not even sure we can really called them a completely failed social experiment. I am aware of how it all turned out.... but they did also serve to house people. It was more like a project that had potential but was badly managed and only one-quarter completed than a failed social "experiment". It was certainly a case study in a poorly conceived and executed plan. If they had actually been a creative or innovative social plan, they probably would have worked!
    Not innovative?  They built state of the art high rises for a decent cost when there was nothing, housed those in need, provided schooling and food programs for those that needed.

    And yes they did fail.  I got to live by some of the worst ones ever.  They were a failure because the areas/society they were built in let them fail.  It's different when you got to see them up close and the bad things that happened in them and around them.

    Some of the projects are finally becoming blossoming areas.  It only took 3 generations to happen...
    That's not innovative IMO. I guess we have different definitions of innovation? To me, what you listed are just basic, regular ideas.

    I'm not saying the projects are awesome - as I said, I know all the issues with them quickly becoming ghettos. I just meant they didn't fail in the sense that they did put roofs over people's heads. That's it. And I think the "ghetto-ization" happened specifically because the plan wasn't innovative or diverse enough.
    There was diversity at first in some of them but then for whatever reason it all became low income housing and did become ghetto unfortunately.

    These were all set up for failure.

    I wonder what they are going to do in Seattle to change it?


  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    That's a great program they got going.  I don't see why more communicates don't get creative like this...
    They did all over the US in the 60's and 70's.  We call them "the projects"  It was a failed social experiment that the government tried.

    "The projects" weren't really creative or innovative though.... I'm not even sure we can really called them a completely failed social experiment. I am aware of how it all turned out.... but they did also serve to house people. It was more like a project that had potential but was badly managed and only one-quarter completed than a failed social "experiment". It was certainly a case study in a poorly conceived and executed plan. If they had actually been a creative or innovative social plan, they probably would have worked!
    Not innovative?  They built state of the art high rises for a decent cost when there was nothing, housed those in need, provided schooling and food programs for those that needed.

    And yes they did fail.  I got to live by some of the worst ones ever.  They were a failure because the areas/society they were built in let them fail.  It's different when you got to see them up close and the bad things that happened in them and around them.

    Some of the projects are finally becoming blossoming areas.  It only took 3 generations to happen...
    That's not innovative IMO. I guess we have different definitions of innovation? To me, what you listed are just basic, regular ideas.

    I'm not saying the projects are awesome - as I said, I know all the issues with them quickly becoming ghettos. I just meant they didn't fail in the sense that they did put roofs over people's heads. That's it. And I think the "ghetto-ization" happened specifically because the plan wasn't innovative or diverse enough.
    There was diversity at first in some of them but then for whatever reason it all became low income housing and did become ghetto unfortunately.

    These were all set up for failure.

    I wonder what they are going to do in Seattle to change it?


    That's a great question. The City has been throwing money at this problem for years and years and the problem continues to grow to the point where it is out of control. Tourists are being accosted. Convention centers are hearing that Seattle may be out of contention for various conventions. Tourism is at risk. There are health and safety concerns for both the people without housing, and for residents of neighborhoods who suddenly find homeless encampments near them. It has become a pretty massive problem. It is going to take more than just throwing money at the issue. We need more opportunity, better conditions for those homeless who are seeking employment (so they can shower, have an address, access to other social services, etc...). We need more beds in shelters, and more shelters in areas of the city where homeless congregate. We need better programs to help the mentally ill get off the streets. We need better programs for those with drug addictions. Even working people, who suddenly find themselves with medical expenses end up on the street as they are left without a way to pay their rent. The cause of homelessness in the city is multi-faceted so there is no single solution to the issue. It is good to see private companies and non-profits stepping in to assist. There are many smart, entrepreneurial people in this city and hopefully we can get some big brains working together to make improvement. It won't come solely from the city government. They've shown that they are not able to adequately address the issue on their own. 
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited July 2018
    It's a pretty tough situation to handle when the city happens to be one of the few where tons of homeless people migrate to because of the mild climate. Seattle is one of those cities. That is a huge problem in Vancouver too. Even if the current homeless population does get more help, more homeless people just keep on coming. Homelessness is obviously also a state and federal issue, not just a regional/local one.
    But yes, some things that need to be done are things like funding special wards/programs in hospitals, so that ERs don't just keep having a flood of homeless ODs who then just leave and go right back to the street. A new program at St. Paul's Hospital in Vancouver has just opened a new department that has beds for such people coming into the ER, and it provides services and help to those people rather than just treating and releasing. A safe injection/OD prevention tent has also been set up in the alley behind the hospital. These kinds of things can really help both in the short term and the long term when it comes to making sure that the homeless have more access to and directed help with social aid programs after they have a traumatic event occur.
    The City of Surrey (part of metro Vancouver) also just built a bunch of modular housing specifically for a tent city that had grown in one area and was completely destroying the neighborhood (Vancouver is also currently building several modular housing buildings for this). They built the housing, staffed it with people to help folks transition from the streets and to find work and help with rehab and everything, and then they, with the help of the cops, informed everyone in the tent city, assigned everyone their rooms (which do include private washrooms in each room), and scheduled moving weekend. When that time came, a bunch of people and cops (instructed to help, not be aggressive) went and helped them all pack up and move. They got about 170 people off the street and into free housing that provides support within 48 hours. It worked. Honestly, all these kinds of things take is the will of the government to go ahead and fucking get it done. Metro Vancouver and Seattle are extremely similar when it comes to the homeless issue, so what works here ought to work there too.... except for the problem of the American healthcare system. Not to say we don't continue to struggle with this issue btw. I'm just saying there are some things being done that are really positive, and at least a good step in the right direction. But local government has to REALLY get on board. That's not easy, since most local governments are frozen by power politics and massive egos.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    jeffbr said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    That's a great program they got going.  I don't see why more communicates don't get creative like this...
    They did all over the US in the 60's and 70's.  We call them "the projects"  It was a failed social experiment that the government tried.

    "The projects" weren't really creative or innovative though.... I'm not even sure we can really called them a completely failed social experiment. I am aware of how it all turned out.... but they did also serve to house people. It was more like a project that had potential but was badly managed and only one-quarter completed than a failed social "experiment". It was certainly a case study in a poorly conceived and executed plan. If they had actually been a creative or innovative social plan, they probably would have worked!
    Not innovative?  They built state of the art high rises for a decent cost when there was nothing, housed those in need, provided schooling and food programs for those that needed.

    And yes they did fail.  I got to live by some of the worst ones ever.  They were a failure because the areas/society they were built in let them fail.  It's different when you got to see them up close and the bad things that happened in them and around them.

    Some of the projects are finally becoming blossoming areas.  It only took 3 generations to happen...
    That's not innovative IMO. I guess we have different definitions of innovation? To me, what you listed are just basic, regular ideas.

    I'm not saying the projects are awesome - as I said, I know all the issues with them quickly becoming ghettos. I just meant they didn't fail in the sense that they did put roofs over people's heads. That's it. And I think the "ghetto-ization" happened specifically because the plan wasn't innovative or diverse enough.
    There was diversity at first in some of them but then for whatever reason it all became low income housing and did become ghetto unfortunately.

    These were all set up for failure.

    I wonder what they are going to do in Seattle to change it?


    That's a great question. The City has been throwing money at this problem for years and years and the problem continues to grow to the point where it is out of control. Tourists are being accosted. Convention centers are hearing that Seattle may be out of contention for various conventions. Tourism is at risk. There are health and safety concerns for both the people without housing, and for residents of neighborhoods who suddenly find homeless encampments near them. It has become a pretty massive problem. It is going to take more than just throwing money at the issue. We need more opportunity, better conditions for those homeless who are seeking employment (so they can shower, have an address, access to other social services, etc...). We need more beds in shelters, and more shelters in areas of the city where homeless congregate. We need better programs to help the mentally ill get off the streets. We need better programs for those with drug addictions. Even working people, who suddenly find themselves with medical expenses end up on the street as they are left without a way to pay their rent. The cause of homelessness in the city is multi-faceted so there is no single solution to the issue. It is good to see private companies and non-profits stepping in to assist. There are many smart, entrepreneurial people in this city and hopefully we can get some big brains working together to make improvement. It won't come solely from the city government. They've shown that they are not able to adequately address the issue on their own. 
    This was a problem when I lived there back in the mid 90's!

    Hopefully they can figure out something because nothing seems to be working.  Here in NY it's becoming worse.  In the last five years I've seen the population in the city growing with homeless.

    Has anyone done  a case study on this?  Any links?
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Most level of governments will never really  care about the homeless.  Homeless don't vote they don't pay taxes, blah, blah ... that's what the politicians really care about taxes so they can buy votes....
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,576
    Meltdown99 said:
    Most level of governments will never really  care about the homeless.  Homeless don't vote they don't pay taxes, blah, blah ... that's what the politicians really care about taxes so they can buy votes....
    To top it off this current administration doesn’t give a hoot about the homeless heck they don’t care about children so why would they care about people living on the streets ...this issue is not even a blip on their radar..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    josevolution said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Most level of governments will never really  care about the homeless.  Homeless don't vote they don't pay taxes, blah, blah ... that's what the politicians really care about taxes so they can buy votes....
    To top it off this current administration doesn’t give a hoot about the homeless heck they don’t care about children so why would they care about people living on the streets ...this issue is not even a blip on their radar..
    No Trump supporter ... who are all those people sleeping on the streets of Detroit during the Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush 1 and on and on.  There is absolutely NO way anyone can pin the homeless problem on any particular party ... the Republican and Democrats own this problem, same as in Canada all levels of government are responsible for the homeless problem...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,576
    https://www.citylab.com/amp/article/508223/
    FYI ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,576
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/09/nyregion/obama-to-propose-11-billion-to-combat-family-homelessness.amp.html
    I haven’t looked it up to see if he ever got the green light from Congress..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Pap
    Pap Serres, Greece Posts: 29,942
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8K28u_ks-g
    Athens 2006 / Milton Keynes 2014 / London 1&2 2022 / Seattle 1&2 2024 / Dublin 2024 / Manchester 2024 / New Orleans 2025
  • Pap
    Pap Serres, Greece Posts: 29,942
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIBeMJGuvjU
    Athens 2006 / Milton Keynes 2014 / London 1&2 2022 / Seattle 1&2 2024 / Dublin 2024 / Manchester 2024 / New Orleans 2025
  • Pap
    Pap Serres, Greece Posts: 29,942
    One of the more memorable recordings is the live concert on November 6, 2000 in Seattle. It's the second of two benefit concerts in Seattle, where old friends Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili Peppers raise more than a half-million dollars for the homeless in Seattle. ~ Henrik Tuxen (Pearl Jam: The More You Need - The Less You Get)
    Athens 2006 / Milton Keynes 2014 / London 1&2 2022 / Seattle 1&2 2024 / Dublin 2024 / Manchester 2024 / New Orleans 2025
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    I have been hearing hat the homeless problem is getting bigger in Seattle because it is a city that tries to help.

    If you know you won't be bothered living in a tent and there are resources there why wouldn't you go there?

    It's a double edged sword.  Help the people and they all come.  Don't help them then it just remains an ongoing problem.

    If every big city in America did something maybe this wouldn't be a problem or maybe less of one?

    I still would like to see case studies on this.
  • Pap
    Pap Serres, Greece Posts: 29,942
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrEVhgTiwwc
    Athens 2006 / Milton Keynes 2014 / London 1&2 2022 / Seattle 1&2 2024 / Dublin 2024 / Manchester 2024 / New Orleans 2025
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I have been hearing hat the homeless problem is getting bigger in Seattle because it is a city that tries to help.

    If you know you won't be bothered living in a tent and there are resources there why wouldn't you go there?

    It's a double edged sword.  Help the people and they all come.  Don't help them then it just remains an ongoing problem.

    If every big city in America did something maybe this wouldn't be a problem or maybe less of one?

    I still would like to see case studies on this.
    They have always all come to the west coast in general largely because of the climate too. Of course they will migrate to places where being homeless is the least painful in every way. If they stopped helping them in Seattle, they'd still all go there just for the mild weather.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I have been hearing hat the homeless problem is getting bigger in Seattle because it is a city that tries to help.

    If you know you won't be bothered living in a tent and there are resources there why wouldn't you go there?

    It's a double edged sword.  Help the people and they all come.  Don't help them then it just remains an ongoing problem.

    If every big city in America did something maybe this wouldn't be a problem or maybe less of one?

    I still would like to see case studies on this.
    They have always all come to the west coast in general largely because of the climate too. Of course they will migrate to places where being homeless is the least painful in every way. If they stopped helping them in Seattle, they'd still all go there just for the mild weather.
    I would think that I would go to California for mild weather and no rain.  Seattle would be one of my last choices as far as weather.

    Here in NY we have a big homeless problem too and we have horrible winters but they are here and growing in numbers.  I'd say it's because of the resources and that the mayor does not push to remove them from the streets.

    San Francisco in certain parts has tents everywhere.  Some at random right on the sidewalks of inhabited areas.  I've never witnessed anything like that.

    The town of Ventura has a HUGE homeless community that you don't see.  They live on the beach in homemade huts or live under the bridges and in the washes.  They don't bother locals or vacationers.  I've never seen an area where homeless people lived and didn't panhandle or cause some form of trouble.

    I haven't been in Seattle since 2013 so I am interested to see what the town has transformed to.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,665
    edited July 2018
    tempo_n_groove said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I have been hearing hat the homeless problem is getting bigger in Seattle because it is a city that tries to help.

    If you know you won't be bothered living in a tent and there are resources there why wouldn't you go there?

    It's a double edged sword.  Help the people and they all come.  Don't help them then it just remains an ongoing problem.

    If every big city in America did something maybe this wouldn't be a problem or maybe less of one?

    I still would like to see case studies on this.
    They have always all come to the west coast in general largely because of the climate too. Of course they will migrate to places where being homeless is the least painful in every way. If they stopped helping them in Seattle, they'd still all go there just for the mild weather.
    I would think that I would go to California for mild weather and no rain.  Seattle would be one of my last choices as far as weather.

    Here in NY we have a big homeless problem too and we have horrible winters but they are here and growing in numbers.  I'd say it's because of the resources and that the mayor does not push to remove them from the streets.

    San Francisco in certain parts has tents everywhere.  Some at random right on the sidewalks of inhabited areas.  I've never witnessed anything like that.

    The town of Ventura has a HUGE homeless community that you don't see.  They live on the beach in homemade huts or live under the bridges and in the washes.  They don't bother locals or vacationers.  I've never seen an area where homeless people lived and didn't panhandle or cause some form of trouble.

    I haven't been in Seattle since 2013 so I am interested to see what the town has transformed to.
    I said the west coast - they go all over the west coast, yes ... California is just too hot and sunny for some people though, including the homeless. Seattle has pretty mild winters (and emergency shelters are set up during the rare really cold snaps), and the summers aren't heinously hot either. That is why it's so appealing. Just some rain isn't a huge factor for a lot of people - some like it. Keeps things clean and green.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata

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