Internet sales tax, yea or nay?

brianlux · June 2018

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

If the taxes were used prudently, not only would they not need to be raised, they could be lowered... although I might argue that instead of lowering taxes, use more to clean up our oceans and solve other environmental and social problems.

In Canada we are over taxed ... estimates have the average Canadian paying half of their income to one tax or another...and our bloated public sector does not provide good service...

On the plus side, you have better health service and fewer guns and lower rates of poverty!

Meltdown99 · June 2018

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

If the taxes were used prudently, not only would they not need to be raised, they could be lowered... although I might argue that instead of lowering taxes, use more to clean up our oceans and solve other environmental and social problems.

In Canada we are over taxed ... estimates have the average Canadian paying half of their income to one tax or another...and our bloated public sector does not provide good service...

On the plus side, you have better health service and fewer guns and lower rates of poverty!

We have one payer healthcare ... it's not better than your healthcare. It's just covered by our taxes...

There plenty of poverty in Canada. The government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed income. They all talk about how they'd like to help...

unsung · June 2018

Taxation is theft.

PJ_Soul · June 2018

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

It's called asking for a raise (if the business hasn't evolved enough to recognize that salaries need to keep pace with inflation). It's not exactly unheard of.

PJ_Soul · June 2018

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

If the taxes were used prudently, not only would they not need to be raised, they could be lowered... although I might argue that instead of lowering taxes, use more to clean up our oceans and solve other environmental and social problems.

In Canada we are over taxed ... estimates have the average Canadian paying half of their income to one tax or another...and our bloated public sector does not provide good service...

On the plus side, you have better health service and fewer guns and lower rates of poverty!

We have one payer healthcare ... it's not better than your healthcare. It's just covered by our taxes...

There plenty of poverty in Canada. The government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed income. They all talk about how they'd like to help...

That's not even true FFS. We have a two-tiered system. People can pay for their medical care and not wait in line if they have the money and that desire to do so.
Also, those poor people or those on a fixed income don't have to spend any money when they need necessary medical care and are not denied healthcare when they can't afford it (which is exactly what makes Canada's system better than the US system, not to mention that less is spent on the same level of healthcare in Canada than is spent on the same in the USA... but that is true for every single other developed nation), and taxes are very low for poor people. There are also many programs that exist for the benefit of the poor, so "the government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed incomes" is a false statement too.
But yes there is poverty in Canada, and every province as well as the federal government needs to do a much better job with that.

Meltdown99 · June 2018

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

If the taxes were used prudently, not only would they not need to be raised, they could be lowered... although I might argue that instead of lowering taxes, use more to clean up our oceans and solve other environmental and social problems.

In Canada we are over taxed ... estimates have the average Canadian paying half of their income to one tax or another...and our bloated public sector does not provide good service...

On the plus side, you have better health service and fewer guns and lower rates of poverty!

We have one payer healthcare ... it's not better than your healthcare. It's just covered by our taxes...

There plenty of poverty in Canada. The government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed income. They all talk about how they'd like to help...

That's not even true FFS. We have a two-tiered system. People can pay for their medical care and not wait in line if they have the money and that desire to do so.
Also, those poor people or those on a fixed income don't have to spend any money when they need necessary medical care and are not denied healthcare when they can't afford it (which is exactly what makes Canada's system better than the US system, not to mention that less is spent on the same level of healthcare in Canada than is spent on the same in the USA... but that is true for every single other developed nation), and taxes are very low for poor people. There are also many programs that exist for the benefit of the poor, so "the government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed incomes" is a false statement too.
But yes there is poverty in Canada, and every province as well as the federal government needs to do a much better job with that.

We have 2 tier health care in Ontario ... go to the states.

Why are your responses long and lengthy. I quite honestly don't care about your opinion...

If you can't recognize that we are in different provinces that have different models...then oh well.

You need to quit being so damn patronizing.

PJ_Soul · June 2018

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

If the taxes were used prudently, not only would they not need to be raised, they could be lowered... although I might argue that instead of lowering taxes, use more to clean up our oceans and solve other environmental and social problems.

In Canada we are over taxed ... estimates have the average Canadian paying half of their income to one tax or another...and our bloated public sector does not provide good service...

On the plus side, you have better health service and fewer guns and lower rates of poverty!

We have one payer healthcare ... it's not better than your healthcare. It's just covered by our taxes...

There plenty of poverty in Canada. The government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed income. They all talk about how they'd like to help...

That's not even true FFS. We have a two-tiered system. People can pay for their medical care and not wait in line if they have the money and that desire to do so.
Also, those poor people or those on a fixed income don't have to spend any money when they need necessary medical care and are not denied healthcare when they can't afford it (which is exactly what makes Canada's system better than the US system, not to mention that less is spent on the same level of healthcare in Canada than is spent on the same in the USA... but that is true for every single other developed nation), and taxes are very low for poor people. There are also many programs that exist for the benefit of the poor, so "the government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed incomes" is a false statement too.
But yes there is poverty in Canada, and every province as well as the federal government needs to do a much better job with that.

We have 2 tier health care in Ontario ... go to the states.

Why are your responses long and lengthy. I quite honestly don't care about your opinion...

If you can't recognize that we are in different provinces that have different models...then oh well.

You need to quit being so damn patronizing.

What are you talking about? There are plenty of private medical clinics in Ontario that rich people can go to.

I quite honestly don't care if you don't care about my opinion, lol. My posts aren't for you. What I'm doing is making sure that everyone else here isn't misinformed by you.

rgambs · June 2018

unsung said:

Taxation is theft.

Only to those who don't want to pay for the things they need and enjoy.

HesCalledDyer · June 2018

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

Your first statement is not true. The value of the dollar fluctuates short term and increases long term. Costs of materials and labor moves with the economy and inflation. There are other things to consider such as population growth, urban sprawl, demand & need for services, performance, maintenance, etc. A public school does not cost the same to build, operate, or maintain today as it did 75 years ago. If we never raised taxes, we couldn't build new schools, fund the programs they offer, or keep existing schools up to date as technology and knowledge advance. Do you want our kids learning from textbooks printed in 1920? Do you want them sitting in rotten wooden desks made over a century ago?

Taxes aren't the big bad wolf everyone makes them out to be if they are used properly. The problem is taxes arent used properly, we are lied to about their use, and we are taxed for things which we never see any resources or services. And the idiots in Congress and the media have the idiots who listen to them pointing fingers at the wrong culprits. The lady buying cigarettes with food stamps isn't the problem. It's the asshole in Congress, the pharmaceutical CEO, the bank CFO, that are all running away laughing their asses off while we point fingers at those these taxes & services were designed for in the first place.

brianlux · June 2018

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

If the taxes were used prudently, not only would they not need to be raised, they could be lowered... although I might argue that instead of lowering taxes, use more to clean up our oceans and solve other environmental and social problems.

In Canada we are over taxed ... estimates have the average Canadian paying half of their income to one tax or another...and our bloated public sector does not provide good service...

On the plus side, you have better health service and fewer guns and lower rates of poverty!

We have one payer healthcare ... it's not better than your healthcare. It's just covered by our taxes...

There plenty of poverty in Canada. The government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed income. They all talk about how they'd like to help...

That's not even true FFS. We have a two-tiered system. People can pay for their medical care and not wait in line if they have the money and that desire to do so.
Also, those poor people or those on a fixed income don't have to spend any money when they need necessary medical care and are not denied healthcare when they can't afford it (which is exactly what makes Canada's system better than the US system, not to mention that less is spent on the same level of healthcare in Canada than is spent on the same in the USA... but that is true for every single other developed nation), and taxes are very low for poor people. There are also many programs that exist for the benefit of the poor, so "the government doesn't do shit for poor people or people on fixed incomes" is a false statement too.
But yes there is poverty in Canada, and every province as well as the federal government needs to do a much better job with that.

We have 2 tier health care in Ontario ... go to the states.

Why are your responses long and lengthy. I quite honestly don't care about your opinion...

If you can't recognize that we are in different provinces that have different models...then oh well.

You need to quit being so damn patronizing.

What are you talking about? There are plenty of private medical clinics in Ontario that rich people can go to.

I quite honestly don't care if you don't care about my opinion, lol. My posts aren't for you. What I'm doing is making sure that everyone else here isn't misinformed by you.

I wonder, Alison, if Meltdown would be more willing to read your posts if they were either long OR lengthy rather than long AND lengthy.

mace1229 · June 2018

HesCalledDyer said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I'm not opposed to raising taxes in theory, as long as they are spent the way they are supposed to be - but that's the problem. They're not used as intended. In America, they're used to make the rich richer and the bombs bigger.

And here in Maryland, state taxes are used to give everything to the I-270 corridor (Frederick to DC) and nothing to the other 95% of the state that's poor, has terrible roads, and little to no public services.

This!

Here is the thing. What if the existing taxes were just used appropriately ... then there'd be no reason to keep raising them.

And what's wrong with expecting government to live within their means. How many of you can go to your employer and say "you know boss, I can't live within my means, give me more money".

Your first statement is not true. The value of the dollar fluctuates short term and increases long term. Costs of materials and labor moves with the economy and inflation. There are other things to consider such as population growth, urban sprawl, demand & need for services, performance, maintenance, etc. A public school does not cost the same to build, operate, or maintain today as it did 75 years ago. If we never raised taxes, we couldn't build new schools, fund the programs they offer, or keep existing schools up to date as technology and knowledge advance. Do you want our kids learning from textbooks printed in 1920? Do you want them sitting in rotten wooden desks made over a century ago?
Taxes aren't the big bad wolf everyone makes them out to be if they are used properly. The problem is taxes arent used properly, we are lied to about their use, and we are taxed for things which we never see any resources or services. And the idiots in Congress and the media have the idiots who listen to them pointing fingers at the wrong culprits. The lady buying cigarettes with food stamps isn't the problem. It's the asshole in Congress, the pharmaceutical CEO, the bank CFO, that are all running away laughing their asses off while we point fingers at those these taxes & services were designed for in the first place.

I agree with your points. Cost of schools go up, along with everything else.
But here’s what I don’t get. When the cost of everything goes up, then you’re paying more taxes already, right? I mean, if you pay 10% tax on something that costs $100, then 20 years down the road that same thing costs $150, that 10% tax is getting more. And with higher population there’s more people paying tax too, so increased population shouldn’t be a reason to increase taxes, because there’s already more being taxed.

So if the government is using all the money efficiently, why would there ever be a reason to raise taxes? Inflation, cost of living and population growth to me don’t seem like any reason, because they all lead to more taxes naturally.

mace1229 · June 2018

Reminds me of tipping.
i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.

brianlux · June 2018

mace1229 said:

Reminds me of tipping.
i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.

I don't mind tipping more. Maybe wait staff in high end restaurants do well but servers etc. working most eateries just get by. I've known a bunch of people who are or have worked as wait staff and not a one of them makes a lot of money. No way. None of 'em.

Seeing taxes go up is frustrating though. I wouldn't mind if more pressing matters were being addressed and solved. They're not.

mace1229 · June 2018

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Reminds me of tipping.
i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.

I don't mind tipping more. Maybe wait staff in high end restaurants do well but servers etc. working most eateries just get by. I've known a bunch of people who are or have worked as wait staff and not a one of them makes a lot of money. No way. None of 'em.

Seeing taxes go up is frustrating though. I wouldn't mind if more pressing matters were being addressed and solved. They're not.

I think the whole tipping system doesn’t make any sense.
i do know some who don’t make a lot, but just as many who do. When you work is more important that where half the time. An average family restaurant can still bring in $200-$300 in a 4-hour shift on a Friday night. But get stuck with the noon-6 on a Tuesday and you might make $60.
What doesn’t make sense to me is why do I tip more because I ordered a more expensive meal, why do I tip less because I ordered a cheap sandwich and water? It’s the same effort on the waiter. The system doesn’t make sense to me.

We’re probably a waiter’s nightmare. Family of 4 with 2 small kids on a tight budget. Wife and I often split a plate and get 2 kid’s meals. Our bill is often under $20, so I tip $4-$5. Well over the 20% but far less than what most would get serving 4.
I really don’t know how the restaurant business survives, eating out with a family of 4 is too expensive for many families. An average restaurant will cost $90 after tax and tip for 1 average meal for 4 at a place like Red Robin or countless other average places. A lot more if you actually get appatizers and drinks. Which is how a server at a place like that on a Friday night, covering just 4 tables could easily make $60 an hour in tips.

Sorry to go way way off topic here.

brianlux · June 2018

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

Reminds me of tipping.
i remember 30 years ago the standard tip was 10%, now its at least 20% due to “cost of living.” But why?
30 years ago a meal was $5 and you tipped 10% (or 50 cents). Now that meal is going to cost close to $20 and you tip 20% (or $4). The tip has increased much faster than the cost of living has. Taxes have done the same thing.

I don't mind tipping more. Maybe wait staff in high end restaurants do well but servers etc. working most eateries just get by. I've known a bunch of people who are or have worked as wait staff and not a one of them makes a lot of money. No way. None of 'em.

Seeing taxes go up is frustrating though. I wouldn't mind if more pressing matters were being addressed and solved. They're not.

I think the whole tipping system doesn’t make any sense.
i do know some who don’t make a lot, but just as many who do. When you work is more important that where half the time. An average family restaurant can still bring in $200-$300 in a 4-hour shift on a Friday night. But get stuck with the noon-6 on a Tuesday and you might make $60.
What doesn’t make sense to me is why do I tip more because I ordered a more expensive meal, why do I tip less because I ordered a cheap sandwich and water? It’s the same effort on the waiter. The system doesn’t make sense to me.

We’re probably a waiter’s nightmare. Family of 4 with 2 small kids on a tight budget. Wife and I often split a plate and get 2 kid’s meals. Our bill is often under $20, so I tip $4-$5. Well over the 20% but far less than what most would get serving 4.
I really don’t know how the restaurant business survives, eating out with a family of 4 is too expensive for many families. An average restaurant will cost $90 after tax and tip for 1 average meal for 4 at a place like Red Robin or countless other average places. A lot more if you actually get appatizers and drinks. Which is how a server at a place like that on a Friday night, covering just 4 tables could easily make $60 an hour in tips.

Sorry to go way way off topic here.

No worries, you make some good points there. I agree, I don't know how people do it. Restaurant business is just about the last line of business I would ever go into.

Meltdown99 · June 2018

When do you stop tipping. Ontario Minimum Wage 14/hour ....

LongestRoad · June 2018

You should pay tax on new items or services.

brianlux · June 2018

LongestRoad said:

You should pay tax on new items or services.

Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation. Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers). Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

Meltdown99 · June 2018

brianlux said:

LongestRoad said:

You should pay tax on new items or services.

Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation. Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers). Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once. There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.

brianlux · June 2018

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

LongestRoad said:

You should pay tax on new items or services.

Yeah, really if you look at it, paying tax on used items is double taxation. Which means my wife has been required to collect that double tax from her customers for 35 years and me for about 15 years (although my business in tiny in comparison to hers). Places like Goodwill and Snowline Hospice Thrift stores (I think rightfully so) collect no tax.

Used items should not be taxed ... tax should only need to be paid once. There should only be either income tax or a sales tax not both.

Interesting thought. Gov probably won't go for it though!

One interesting idea I've heard (regarding sales tax) would be to tax only non-essential items. That is, no tax on food, shelter, clothing, medical needs but sales tax on everything else. That way, the person making a low income isn't hit as hard, people buying common entertainment and accessory items paying a moderate amount of tax and people who want yachts, precious stones, swimming pools and other luxury items would pay higher tax. The higher the cost of a non-essential item, the greater the tax. I thought that made sense. Gov probably won't go for it though!

Internet sales tax, yea or nay?

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