I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I am not surprised to see you say this at all, but I still don't understand why you are "disappointed" in him for not being able to separate the art from the artist, given how much emotions are involved when it comes to art, especially for actual artists. To me, it only makes sense to combine the art and the artist. For me, it is odd that anyone CAN separate the art from the artist.... It almost suggests a lack of understanding of what art and being an artist actually means.
IMO there is no right or wrong answer here only opinions and my opinion is that it is wise to separate the artist from the art if their beliefs differ from yours as I have with Ed and now Jeff. I happen to love Trump and his conservative agenda and don't believe in open borders and the left wing liberal agenda. That's fine for Ed and Jeff and I just tune it out and focus on their music. Easy peasy.
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I am not surprised to see you say this at all, but I still don't understand why you are "disappointed" in him for not being able to separate the art from the artist, given how much emotions are involved when it comes to art, especially for actual artists. To me, it only makes sense to combine the art and the artist. For me, it is odd that anyone CAN separate the art from the artist.... It almost suggests a lack of understanding of what art and being an artist actually means.
IMO there is no right or wrong answer here only opinions and my opinion is that it is wise to separate the artist from the art if their beliefs differ from yours as I have with Ed and now Jeff. I happen to love Trump and his conservative agenda and don't believe in open borders and the left wing liberal agenda. That's fine for Ed and Jeff and I just tune it out and focus on their music. Easy peasy.
Of course people can do whatever they feel like and of course this is all about opinion - what else would it be? I didn't feel like there was a need to clarify that, especially considering the language I used ("To me", "for me") ... For me, separating the art from the artist degrades the art, and given the connection between the art and the artist, which is NOT a matter of opinion, that makes the most sense as well. But also, that's great if that's what you want to do (not that you love Trump though - that I have a very difficult time wrapping my head around in any case and I consider love for Trump harmful to everyone - how can you love someone with such low morals and who lies all the time?), but I don't really get how you can tune out Eddie's politics and also focus on the music if you're listening to a political song. Is that possible? Do you mean that you literally ignore the lyrics?
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I am not surprised to see you say this at all, but I still don't understand why you are "disappointed" in him for not being able to separate the art from the artist, given how much emotions are involved when it comes to art, especially for actual artists. To me, it only makes sense to combine the art and the artist. For me, it is odd that anyone CAN separate the art from the artist.... It almost suggests a lack of understanding of what art and being an artist actually means.
I separate it all the time. Example...I love Bushleaguer and I love how PJ uses art to express their political view. It is great performance art with a message even though I completely disagree with the message. That is separating art from the artist as I can still “enjoy” PJ regardless of their politics. What is “disappointing” is that Jeff suggests that he can’t do this...his enjoyment gets affected. Go re-watch the Bushleaguer part of PJ20 to see how Jeff felt about people turning on them over the song. He seems to be responding to Kanye in the same way narrow minded people responded to PJ in the Bush years.
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I am not surprised to see you say this at all, but I still don't understand why you are "disappointed" in him for not being able to separate the art from the artist, given how much emotions are involved when it comes to art, especially for actual artists. To me, it only makes sense to combine the art and the artist. For me, it is odd that anyone CAN separate the art from the artist.... It almost suggests a lack of understanding of what art and being an artist actually means.
I separate it all the time. Example...I love Bushleaguer and I love how PJ uses art to express their political view. It is great performance art with a message even though I completely disagree with the message. That is separating art from the artist as I can still “enjoy” PJ regardless of their politics. What is “disappointing” is that Jeff suggests that he can’t do this...his enjoyment gets affected. Go re-watch the Bushleaguer part of PJ20 to see how Jeff felt about people turning on them over the song. He seems to be responding to Kanye in the same way narrow minded people responded to PJ in the Bush years.
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I get what you're saying, but I'd call it the Nugent effect. When an artist is generally a jackass as a person, I have a hard time enjoying their music. I think it makes sense. I think Kanye has made some outstanding music over the years, but he is such a narcissistic asshat I can't stand it. You can't compare PJ to someone like that because they're not self righteous reality TV pricks. PJ get a pass because they're all decent people. Ed may go on a rant, but he's never proclaimed himself to be the next coming of Christ. Not much decent about Kanye the person.
I understand and I actually don’t care how people feel about Kanye but I’m getting the impression from this interview that Jeff is telling Kanye to “shut up and sing”. We all know how PJ felt about the attacks on them and the Dixie Chicks etc. during the Bush years and it comes off as hypocritical to see Jeff fail to support another artist even if he disagrees with him. A more thoughful response would have been “I personally disagree with Kanye but I respect his right as an artist to take a stand and push his position through his art”. Is Jeff ok with radio stations banning Kanye’s music like some did to the Dixie Chicks? A real courageous answer would have taken the rights of artistic expression head on as it is what PJ has always stood for and Jeff failed massively on this front. No dragon energy.
There's not even a hint of "shut up and sing" in that. You are (whether you realize it or not) riding a bandwagon that's hot right now, right wingers jumping to Kanye's defense because he said something good about Trump. It's all the rage right now, but it will pass soon. Don't just make up a controversy where there is none to be had.
There certainly is a hint of shut up and sing. And let’s be clear...Jeff said that he loves Kanye. He had no problem “enjoying” Kanye’s music after the “George Bush doesn’t care about black people” incident. Now that Kanye is all MAGA however...well...his music can no longer be enjoyed! The defense I am jumping too is free speech and free speech alone. I’m ok with anything Kanye says and have never let his views taint my enjoyment of his music. My assumption is Jeff as an artist would have similar views and the “shut up and sing” hint arises from the pressures other artists will feel from speaking out in anyway they choose.
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I am not surprised to see you say this at all, but I still don't understand why you are "disappointed" in him for not being able to separate the art from the artist, given how much emotions are involved when it comes to art, especially for actual artists. To me, it only makes sense to combine the art and the artist. For me, it is odd that anyone CAN separate the art from the artist.... It almost suggests a lack of understanding of what art and being an artist actually means.
I separate it all the time. Example...I love Bushleaguer and I love how PJ uses art to express their political view. It is great performance art with a message even though I completely disagree with the message. That is separating art from the artist as I can still “enjoy” PJ regardless of their politics. What is “disappointing” is that Jeff suggests that he can’t do this...his enjoyment gets affected. Go re-watch the Bushleaguer part of PJ20 to see how Jeff felt about people turning on them over the song. He seems to be responding to Kanye in the same way narrow minded people responded to PJ in the Bush years.
That doesn't sound like separating art from the artist at all. Just because you don't let it bother you doesn't mean you're separating the two. It also doesn't mean you should expect others to do the same. I see nothing wrong at all when people want to make it mean something to them. And that is what you seem mad about. That Jeff (or anyone) would allow art to actually mean something to them on the level that the artist intended it, or that they would link a person's vile attitude to their art, when artists put their attitudes into their art ... For many it's not possible to separate those two things, or if it is, they wouldn't even want to separate the two, because it's a package deal to them, which makes perfect sense, especially for people who are artists themselves. That shouldn't bother you, and I don't get why it does.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I am not surprised to see you say this at all, but I still don't understand why you are "disappointed" in him for not being able to separate the art from the artist, given how much emotions are involved when it comes to art, especially for actual artists. To me, it only makes sense to combine the art and the artist. For me, it is odd that anyone CAN separate the art from the artist.... It almost suggests a lack of understanding of what art and being an artist actually means.
I separate it all the time. Example...I love Bushleaguer and I love how PJ uses art to express their political view. It is great performance art with a message even though I completely disagree with the message. That is separating art from the artist as I can still “enjoy” PJ regardless of their politics. What is “disappointing” is that Jeff suggests that he can’t do this...his enjoyment gets affected. Go re-watch the Bushleaguer part of PJ20 to see how Jeff felt about people turning on them over the song. He seems to be responding to Kanye in the same way narrow minded people responded to PJ in the Bush years.
That doesn't sound like separating art from the artist at all. Just because you don't let it bother you doesn't mean you're separating the two. It also doesn't mean you should expect others to do the same. I see nothing wrong at all when people want to make it mean something to them. And that is what you seem mad about. That Jeff (or anyone) would allow art to actually mean something to them on the level that the artist intended it, or that they would link a person's vile attitude to their art, when artists put their attitudes into their art ... For many it's not possible to separate those two things, or if it is, they wouldn't even want to separate the two, because it's a package deal to them, which makes perfect sense, especially for people who are artists themselves. That shouldn't bother you, and I don't get why it does.
It bothers me because his attitude on the topic is just plain old lame. Jeff and PJ have strong political opinions and both hope and expect real fans to tolerate their opinions while still being able to “enjoy” the art they make. He seems to be unable to do the same. Eddie impaling a bush head on a mic stand? No problem. Kanye in a MAGA hat? The horror! His music will be harder to enjoy! Lame.
Trump lovers and conservatives have to separate the two. Otherwise they are left with Kanye and Nugent. Their only entertainment would be Fox and Alex Jones.
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I get what you're saying, but I'd call it the Nugent effect. When an artist is generally a jackass as a person, I have a hard time enjoying their music. I think it makes sense. I think Kanye has made some outstanding music over the years, but he is such a narcissistic asshat I can't stand it. You can't compare PJ to someone like that because they're not self righteous reality TV pricks. PJ get a pass because they're all decent people. Ed may go on a rant, but he's never proclaimed himself to be the next coming of Christ. Not much decent about Kanye the person.
I understand and I actually don’t care how people feel about Kanye but I’m getting the impression from this interview that Jeff is telling Kanye to “shut up and sing”. We all know how PJ felt about the attacks on them and the Dixie Chicks etc. during the Bush years and it comes off as hypocritical to see Jeff fail to support another artist even if he disagrees with him. A more thoughful response would have been “I personally disagree with Kanye but I respect his right as an artist to take a stand and push his position through his art”. Is Jeff ok with radio stations banning Kanye’s music like some did to the Dixie Chicks? A real courageous answer would have taken the rights of artistic expression head on as it is what PJ has always stood for and Jeff failed massively on this front. No dragon energy.
There's not even a hint of "shut up and sing" in that. You are (whether you realize it or not) riding a bandwagon that's hot right now, right wingers jumping to Kanye's defense because he said something good about Trump. It's all the rage right now, but it will pass soon. Don't just make up a controversy where there is none to be had.
There certainly is a hint of shut up and sing. And let’s be clear...Jeff said that he loves Kanye. He had no problem “enjoying” Kanye’s music after the “George Bush doesn’t care about black people” incident. Now that Kanye is all MAGA however...well...his music can no longer be enjoyed! The defense I am jumping too is free speech and free speech alone. I’m ok with anything Kanye says and have never let his views taint my enjoyment of his music. My assumption is Jeff as an artist would have similar views and the “shut up and sing” hint arises from the pressures other artists will feel from speaking out in anyway they choose.
It's not "shut up and sing" it's "dude, if you are going to say something, say something that makes sense". I don't listen to Kanye, so I don't get the "genius" of him. All I see is a guy who can't even articulate his thoughts and feelings when asked to. Childish Gambino just did in 4 minutes what Kanye has been trying to do for a decade. Jeff is right to wonder, if his music is supposedly so solid, why can't he actually defend his insane statements and control his insane ego?
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I get what you're saying, but I'd call it the Nugent effect. When an artist is generally a jackass as a person, I have a hard time enjoying their music. I think it makes sense. I think Kanye has made some outstanding music over the years, but he is such a narcissistic asshat I can't stand it. You can't compare PJ to someone like that because they're not self righteous reality TV pricks. PJ get a pass because they're all decent people. Ed may go on a rant, but he's never proclaimed himself to be the next coming of Christ. Not much decent about Kanye the person.
I understand and I actually don’t care how people feel about Kanye but I’m getting the impression from this interview that Jeff is telling Kanye to “shut up and sing”. We all know how PJ felt about the attacks on them and the Dixie Chicks etc. during the Bush years and it comes off as hypocritical to see Jeff fail to support another artist even if he disagrees with him. A more thoughful response would have been “I personally disagree with Kanye but I respect his right as an artist to take a stand and push his position through his art”. Is Jeff ok with radio stations banning Kanye’s music like some did to the Dixie Chicks? A real courageous answer would have taken the rights of artistic expression head on as it is what PJ has always stood for and Jeff failed massively on this front. No dragon energy.
There's not even a hint of "shut up and sing" in that. You are (whether you realize it or not) riding a bandwagon that's hot right now, right wingers jumping to Kanye's defense because he said something good about Trump. It's all the rage right now, but it will pass soon. Don't just make up a controversy where there is none to be had.
There certainly is a hint of shut up and sing. And let’s be clear...Jeff said that he loves Kanye. He had no problem “enjoying” Kanye’s music after the “George Bush doesn’t care about black people” incident. Now that Kanye is all MAGA however...well...his music can no longer be enjoyed! The defense I am jumping too is free speech and free speech alone. I’m ok with anything Kanye says and have never let his views taint my enjoyment of his music. My assumption is Jeff as an artist would have similar views and the “shut up and sing” hint arises from the pressures other artists will feel from speaking out in anyway they choose.
It's not "shut up and sing" it's "dude, if you are going to say something, say something that makes sense". I don't listen to Kanye, so I don't get the "genius" of him. All I see is a guy who can't even articulate his thoughts and feelings when asked to. Childish Gambino just did in 4 minutes what Kanye has been trying to do for a decade. Jeff is right to wonder, if his music is supposedly so solid, why can't he actually defend his insane statements and control his insane ego?
Pretty much. I think his point was also that he is a Trump-level narcissist and just wants his name out there, even if there are no actual coherent thoughts under the headlines. I don't get the "shut up and sing" vibe from this, I get the "hes only doing this for attention" vibe
I choose to ignore all of it. It’s easy to do. I dont care that kanye and chance the rapper arent as anti trump as this artist or that one. Has no bearing on my life. I can listen to Rage Against the Machine followed up by an 80s band who probably voted for trump. Why should i care? Lol. I dont adopt anyone’s ideals and morals by playing an mp3.
I like music and I don’t like politics. Everyone is convinced that they’re correct anyway so tune it out.
I just enjoyed reading the interview. Always interesting to hear stuff direct from band members, and very much looking forward to checking out Jeffs new music.
I’m really disappointed in Jeff’s take on Kanye. Nobody has to accept Kanye’s beliefs in any way shape or form but to see a guy like Jeff say “I have a hard time separating the art from the artist...” or to accuse him of just doing this for publicity is just so sad. Pearl Jam has taken a variety of political stances over the years and fans such have myself have supported them in taking those positions even when I disagree with them. I support their art and their right to take a stand and I only assumed Jeff would feel the same. His closed mindedness is what is unfortunate.
I am not surprised to see you say this at all, but I still don't understand why you are "disappointed" in him for not being able to separate the art from the artist, given how much emotions are involved when it comes to art, especially for actual artists. To me, it only makes sense to combine the art and the artist. For me, it is odd that anyone CAN separate the art from the artist.... It almost suggests a lack of understanding of what art and being an artist actually means.
I separate it all the time. Example...I love Bushleaguer and I love how PJ uses art to express their political view. It is great performance art with a message even though I completely disagree with the message. That is separating art from the artist as I can still “enjoy” PJ regardless of their politics. What is “disappointing” is that Jeff suggests that he can’t do this...his enjoyment gets affected. Go re-watch the Bushleaguer part of PJ20 to see how Jeff felt about people turning on them over the song. He seems to be responding to Kanye in the same way narrow minded people responded to PJ in the Bush years.
That doesn't sound like separating art from the artist at all. Just because you don't let it bother you doesn't mean you're separating the two. It also doesn't mean you should expect others to do the same. I see nothing wrong at all when people want to make it mean something to them. And that is what you seem mad about. That Jeff (or anyone) would allow art to actually mean something to them on the level that the artist intended it, or that they would link a person's vile attitude to their art, when artists put their attitudes into their art ... For many it's not possible to separate those two things, or if it is, they wouldn't even want to separate the two, because it's a package deal to them, which makes perfect sense, especially for people who are artists themselves. That shouldn't bother you, and I don't get why it does.
It bothers me because his attitude on the topic is just plain old lame. Jeff and PJ have strong political opinions and both hope and expect real fans to tolerate their opinions while still being able to “enjoy” the art they make. He seems to be unable to do the same. Eddie impaling a bush head on a mic stand? No problem. Kanye in a MAGA hat? The horror! His music will be harder to enjoy! Lame.
Where do you get the idea that they expect others to "tolerate their opinions while still being able to "enjoy" the art they make"? Nobody ever said that. You're leaping to conclusions. There isn't any hypocrisy going on there.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'm going to sit down and appreciate The Cosby Show tonight and not worry about what type of person Bill really is. Can't let the person interfere with their art and all
I'm going to sit down and appreciate The Cosby Show tonight and not worry about what type of person Bill really is. Can't let the person interfere with their art and all
I actually did this. I guess I was curious. The show still absolutely holds up - it's definitely some solid, wholesome, well-conceived family entertainment, and I actually didn't appreciate what good actors most of them were when I was a kid. It's a good show! .... However, there were definitely a lot of "eeekkk, that is creepy/icky/awkward now that I know what he's really like" moments. Cosby's crimes came to my mind several times an episode. His crimes/perversion definitely interfered with his art in terms of what I thought and felt while watching..... According to BS, I should feel bad about this.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
I'm going to sit down and appreciate The Cosby Show tonight and not worry about what type of person Bill really is. Can't let the person interfere with their art and all
I actually did this. I guess I was curious. The show still absolutely holds up - it's definitely some solid, wholesome, well-conceived family entertainment, and I actually didn't appreciate what good actors most of them were when I was a kid. It's a good show! .... However, there were definitely a lot of "eeekkk, that is creepy/icky/awkward now that I know what he's really like" moments. Cosby's crimes came to my mind several times an episode. His crimes/perversion definitely interfered with his art in terms of what I thought and felt while watching..... According to BS, I should feel bad about this.
I’m trying to see the intelligence in comparing Cosby to Kanye but alas...One has committed the “wrong kind” of thought while the other has committed rape.
Please keep patting yourselves on the back though.
Now with respect to Jeff I believe Andrew Sullivan has captured my thougts perfectly
”As an individual, I seek my own freedom, period. Being gay is integral to who I am, but it doesn’t define who I am. There is no gay freedom or straight freedom, no black freedom or white freedom; merely freedom, a common dream, a universalizing, individual experience. “Liberation from the dictates of the we” is everyone’s birthright in America, and it is particularly so for anyone in the creative fields of music or writing. A free artist owes nothing to anyone, especially his own tribe. And if you take the space away from him to be exactly what he wants to be, in all his contradictions and complexity, you are eradicating something critical to a free and healthy society. You are devouring the individual in favor of the mob. You are reducing a kaleidoscope to black and white.
And notice that in Ta-Nehisi’s essay, two concepts — freedom and music — that have long been seen as universal, transcending class or race or gender or any form of identity toward an idea of the eternally human or even divine — are emphatically tribalized and brought decisively down to earth. Freedom, in this worldview, does not and cannot unite Americans of all races; neither can music. Because there is no category of simply human freedom possible in America, now or ever. There is only tribe. And the struggle against the other tribe. And this will never end.”
I though Jeff would support the “free artist”. Again I’m talking about “thought” and not “rape” for those who are confused.
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
I think Kanye, sucks at being a good human, but i have never heard his music,but i also dont want to waste my time with him as well ,i cant beleive his show was all that great like jeff said , and i feel i wasted this time typing this ,he is a sketchy acting person
Post edited by trees on
PJ Cuyahoga Flalls OH 8/26/1998 PJ Noblesviile IN 8/18/2000 PJ Cincinnatti OH 8/20/2000 PJ Columbus OH 8/21/2000 PJ Columbus OH 6/24/2003 PJ Hamilton Ontario 9/13/2005 PJ Phiadelphia PA 10/3/2005 PJ Cleveland OH 5/20/2006 PJ Columbia SC 6/16/2008..... e.V Chicago IL 8/21/2008 e.V Philly PA 6/11/2009 e.V Bailtimore MD 6/14/2009... PJ Chicago IL 8/23/2009 .PJ...Philly PA 10/27/2009 PJ.Philadephia PA 10/28/2009. PJ Columbus OH 5/6/2010 PJ Cleveland OH 5/9/2010. BRAD Columbus OH 10/5/2010 e.V St.Louis MO 7/1/2011 .PJ.. East Troy WI 9/3/2011..PJ..East Troy WI 9/4/2011 Neil Young & Crazy Horse Cleveland OH 10/8/2012 RNDM Chicago IL11/13/2012 Alice In Chains/SoundGarden Columbus OH 5/19/2013 AIC Fort Wayne IN 5/21/2013 PJ Pittsburgh PA 10/11/2013 AIC Cincinnati OH 5/17/2014 AIC Cleveland OH 5/19/2014 AIC Indianapolis IN 8/19/2014 PJ Cincinnati OH 10/1/2014 AIC Cincinnati OH 8/06/2015 RNDM Chicago IL 3/15/2016 PJ Columbia SC 4\21\2016 PJ Lexington KY 4/26/2016 PJ Chicago IL 8/20/2016 Soundgarden Columbus OH 5/20/2017 Canceled RIP Chris AIC Columbus OH 5/18/2018 PJ Chicago IL 8/18/2018 PJ Chicago IL 8/20/2018 PJ St Louis Missouri 9/18/2022 AIC Cuyohoga falls Oh. 8/16/2019 SHAWNSMITH Rip 2019Mark Lanegan Band 5/18/19
“When you hear about slavery for 400 years, for 400 years? That sounds like a choice,” West told TMZ’s Harvey Levin. “Like, you was there for 400 years and it’s all of y’all?”
Kanye also sounded off about his support for Trump, saying: “I just love Trump, that’s my boy,” adding that “Trump is one of rap’s favorite people.”
In the “TMZ Live” clip, West turns to those working in the newsroom and asks: “Do you feel that I’m being free and I’m thinking free?”
“I actually don’t think you’re thinking anything,” TMZ writer Van Lathan said, as he stood up from his desk to respond to West’s question. “I think what you’re doing right now is actually the absence of thought.”
Lathan went on to elaborate, saying:
“You’re entitled to believe whatever you want, but there is fact and real world, real life consequence behind everything you just said. And while you are making music and being an artist and living the life that you’ve earned by being a genius, the rest of us in society have to deal with these threats to our lives. We have to deal with the marginalization that has come from the 400 years of slavery that you said for our people was a choice. Frankly, I’m disappointed, I’m appalled and brotha, I’m unbelievably hurt by the fact that you have morphed into something that, to me, is not real.”
West is then seen approaching Lathan and can be heard apologizing before the clip ends.
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“When you hear about slavery for 400 years, for 400 years? That sounds like a choice,” West told TMZ’s Harvey Levin. “Like, you was there for 400 years and it’s all of y’all?”
Kanye also sounded off about his support for Trump, saying: “I just love Trump, that’s my boy,” adding that “Trump is one of rap’s favorite people.”
In the “TMZ Live” clip, West turns to those working in the newsroom and asks: “Do you feel that I’m being free and I’m thinking free?”
“I actually don’t think you’re thinking anything,” TMZ writer Van Lathan said, as he stood up from his desk to respond to West’s question. “I think what you’re doing right now is actually the absence of thought.”
Lathan went on to elaborate, saying:
“You’re entitled to believe whatever you want, but there is fact and real world, real life consequence behind everything you just said. And while you are making music and being an artist and living the life that you’ve earned by being a genius, the rest of us in society have to deal with these threats to our lives. We have to deal with the marginalization that has come from the 400 years of slavery that you said for our people was a choice. Frankly, I’m disappointed, I’m appalled and brotha, I’m unbelievably hurt by the fact that you have morphed into something that, to me, is not real.”
West is then seen approaching Lathan and can be heard apologizing before the clip ends.
Ed pretty much said the same thing when he covered Redemption Song with Beyoncé
“Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery None but ourselves can free our minds”
What Kanye West seeks is what Michael Jackson sought—liberation from the dictates of that we. In his visit with West, the rapper T.I. was stunned to find that West, despite his endorsement of Trump, had never heard of the travel ban. “He don’t know the things that we know because he’s removed himself from society to a point where it don’t reach him,” T.I. said. West calls his struggle the right to be a “free thinker,” and he is, indeed, championing a kind of freedom—a white freedom, freedom without consequence, freedom without criticism, freedom to be proud and ignorant; freedom to profit off a people in one moment and abandon them in the next; a Stand Your Ground freedom, freedom without responsibility, without hard memory; a Monticello without slavery, a Confederate freedom, the freedom of John C. Calhoun, not the freedom of Harriet Tubman, which calls you to risk your own; not the freedom of Nat Turner, which calls you to give even more, but a conqueror’s freedom, freedom of the strong built on antipathy or indifference to the weak, the freedom of rape buttons, pussy grabbers, and fuck you anyway, bitch; freedom of oil and invisible wars, the freedom of suburbs drawn with red lines, the white freedom of Calabasas.
The most racist part in all of this discussion is conservatives’ assumption that most black people are feebleminded lemmings whose dunderheaded thoughts must be the result of low IQ and brainwashing because, according to their logic, conservative white people know best. Apparently, they believe that all the idling Negro minds put together don’t equate to one brain cell of a free thinker like Donald Trump.
The fucked-up part is that Kanye believes this, too. The rest of us are too dumb to free ourselves, or too lazy to work ourselves out of our black misery. But he thinks “freely” now.
free-thought-is-for-white-people-1825704677
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Comments
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I don't listen to Kanye, so I don't get the "genius" of him. All I see is a guy who can't even articulate his thoughts and feelings when asked to.
Childish Gambino just did in 4 minutes what Kanye has been trying to do for a decade.
Jeff is right to wonder, if his music is supposedly so solid, why can't he actually defend his insane statements and control his insane ego?
I like music and I don’t like politics. Everyone is convinced that they’re correct anyway so tune it out.
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I wonder what his thoughts are about OJ?
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Please keep patting yourselves on the back though.
Now with respect to Jeff I believe Andrew Sullivan has captured my thougts perfectly
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/05/andrew-sullivan-kanye-west-and-the-question-of-freedom.html
Key quote:
”As an individual, I seek my own freedom, period. Being gay is integral to who I am, but it doesn’t define who I am. There is no gay freedom or straight freedom, no black freedom or white freedom; merely freedom, a common dream, a universalizing, individual experience. “Liberation from the dictates of the we” is everyone’s birthright in America, and it is particularly so for anyone in the creative fields of music or writing. A free artist owes nothing to anyone, especially his own tribe. And if you take the space away from him to be exactly what he wants to be, in all his contradictions and complexity, you are eradicating something critical to a free and healthy society. You are devouring the individual in favor of the mob. You are reducing a kaleidoscope to black and white.
And notice that in Ta-Nehisi’s essay, two concepts — freedom and music — that have long been seen as universal, transcending class or race or gender or any form of identity toward an idea of the eternally human or even divine — are emphatically tribalized and brought decisively down to earth. Freedom, in this worldview, does not and cannot unite Americans of all races; neither can music. Because there is no category of simply human freedom possible in America, now or ever. There is only tribe. And the struggle against the other tribe. And this will never end.”
I though Jeff would support the “free artist”. Again I’m talking about “thought” and not “rape” for those who are confused.
Hey hey hey!
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“When you hear about slavery for 400 years, for 400 years? That sounds like a choice,” West told TMZ’s Harvey Levin. “Like, you was there for 400 years and it’s all of y’all?”
Kanye also sounded off about his support for Trump, saying: “I just love Trump, that’s my boy,” adding that “Trump is one of rap’s favorite people.”
In the “TMZ Live” clip, West turns to those working in the newsroom and asks: “Do you feel that I’m being free and I’m thinking free?”
“I actually don’t think you’re thinking anything,” TMZ writer Van Lathan said, as he stood up from his desk to respond to West’s question. “I think what you’re doing right now is actually the absence of thought.”
Lathan went on to elaborate, saying:
West is then seen approaching Lathan and can be heard apologizing before the clip ends.
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
“Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds”
Jeff is disappointed...
PJ posts this
www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2018/05/im-not-black-im-kanye/559763/
The most racist part in all of this discussion is conservatives’ assumption that most black people are feebleminded lemmings whose dunderheaded thoughts must be the result of low IQ and brainwashing because, according to their logic, conservative white people know best. Apparently, they believe that all the idling Negro minds put together don’t equate to one brain cell of a free thinker like Donald Trump.
The fucked-up part is that Kanye believes this, too. The rest of us are too dumb to free ourselves, or too lazy to work ourselves out of our black misery. But he thinks “freely” now.
free-thought-is-for-white-people-1825704677Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022