America's Gun Violence

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Thoughts Arrive is on fire!

Thoughts_Arrive said:

riotgrl said:

PJPOWER said:

riotgrl said:

Schools already have these things - armed personnel, locked doors, metal detectors and it doesn't stop these shooters.  Instead of investing more money in things that treat symptoms, start treating the root causes.  I teach high school in a district that has 21 high schools.  Do you know how many psychologists my school has?  1 - for 2 high schools which means she treats roughly 3,000 kids.  We have 4 counselors at my school that see 600 kids each - for mental health issues, class scheduling, college visits, testing, etc. etc.    We have no school nurses to care for our kids.  We have no social workers - how do we help these kids that have no help at home??  I have 31 kids in each class so I see roughly 150 kids a day - how well do you think I get to know EACH of these kids?  Hardly at all yet, I am responsible for not just teaching them but making sure they are safe and that if they are having a mental health issue that i somehow catch it.  All of this costs money and I live in Kentucky which continues to vilify us teachers and take more and more money from these kids.  There are ways and gun control legislation should be part of the overall effort but you've got to invest in kids at these schools.  That means increasing taxes to help kids who may not belong to you but if you help them then you help all of of us to improve.  

Did this school have the metal detectors, locked doors, armed personnel?  It may have, but I have not seen that reported.  
I know these regulations vary district by district and state by state.  I agree with pretty much everything else you said.  
I gather by reading your post that you feel lack of mental health treatment is the root cause?

I think that mental health issues play a role for some shootings but I do not think that applies to every situation.  I am all for gun control, background checks, mental health checks, gun registries and whatever we can do to keep people safe.  The second amendment is only a part of the Constitution - what about the general welfare, the common good?

As a teacher, I am a nurturer and the teachers that I know that aren't super nurturing are the very ones that want to be armed and they are the last ones that I would trust to tote a gun around my school.  That includes the 4 security guards that we have, 2 of whom are retired cops.  I believe that those 2 carry guns on to campus even though they are not supposed to do so at my school because they are not SRO's (school resource officers).  Those two men worry me and they are trained to have guns.  I understand that we don't live in an ideal world and that many of you are for arming people in schools, metal detectors, fences, gates, guards, etc. to keep kids safe but really, as someone said previously, this is NOT a police state.  Our schools should be places for our children to grow, blossom, and generally a positive, safe space.  I get it, fixing all those things I mentioned earlier are most likely not going to happen, but Jesus, when are we going to put kids first?  The ignorant moron that is the governor of my state blames violent video games and rap music and everything but the slashing of education and social services that he is doing.  He wants prayer in the school (already is here) and Bible classes taught because he thinks that will magically make up for the problems of poverty.  These other countries ban guns but in my mind they have something we don't have in this country and that is concern for our fellow citizens (of course, I don't mean everyone).  When poor people are demonized rather than helped, well, then, we get compounded problems that feel insurmountable.

What a moron that governor is.
Fuck him and his religious shit.
I am sick and tired and angry at idiots blaming violent video games, rap music, heavy metal music.
Me and many of my peers grew up with these and are completely peaceful beings.
I find it insane that children need to go to school in an unsafe environment and with all this security. I picture in my mind a prison environment. 

RYME said:

vaggar99 said:

here's my plan: the really smart people like Trump and Tomi Lahren can lock themselves in a room until they come with a cure for mental illness.  in the meantime, the rest of us dummies can get some common sense gun laws passed.  what do you say?

What common sense gun law?  Please...
I'm sick and tired of hearing "do something!! guns guns guns."
Republicans and NRA all have blood on their hands.  BS!
Gun laws got nothing to do with this. 
Every time there's a shooting it's an opportunity for liberals to go drum beating and try to advance their politics.
More gun laws wouldn't have stopped this deranged dangerous kid.  Pass all the gun laws you want, this kid was still determined to kill.
A more proactive FBI,  local police force, & School District should have stopped this kid.
Unfortunately there are some very very troubled individuals living amongst us.  Look at a picture of this guy in Florida, who did the shooting, look at his eyes.  There's just nothing there.  Sorry, more gun laws won't do a thing about people like this.
The mechanisms are actually all already in place to stop a guy like this.  If tip-offs would actually be taken seriously.
The Local Police, FBI, and even the School itself all knew about this guy.
The FBI was notified about this guy 6 weeks ago, the FBI should have communicated with the local police, the police were notified about this guy, but they did not get in contact with the FBI.  Last fall somebody piped up about the social media threatening videos this guy posted indicating his intentions.
The school knew about this guy , yet did nothing to communicate with the local police or take measures to make sure the school grounds were secured.
So the FBI, the police, and the school all were were warned & informed about the guy, yet none of these entities did a thing about it.
Bureaucracies need to be overhauled & Political Correctness needs to be outlawed!!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/16/as-florida-town-mourns-authorities-revisit-possible-warning-signs-before-school-massacre/

RYME said:

vaggar99 said:

here's my plan: the really smart people like Trump and Tomi Lahren can lock themselves in a room until they come with a cure for mental illness.  in the meantime, the rest of us dummies can get some common sense gun laws passed.  what do you say?

What common sense gun law?  Please...
I'm sick and tired of hearing "do something!! guns guns guns."
Republicans and NRA all have blood on their hands.  BS!
Gun laws got nothing to do with this. 
Every time there's a shooting it's an opportunity for liberals to go drum beating and try to advance their politics.
More gun laws wouldn't have stopped this deranged dangerous kid.  Pass all the gun laws you want, this kid was still determined to kill.
A more proactive FBI,  local police force, & School District should have stopped this kid.
Unfortunately there are some very very troubled individuals living amongst us.  Look at a picture of this guy in Florida, who did the shooting, look at his eyes.  There's just nothing there.  Sorry, more gun laws won't do a thing about people like this.
The mechanisms are actually all already in place to stop a guy like this.  If tip-offs would actually be taken seriously.
The Local Police, FBI, and even the School itself all knew about this guy.
The FBI was notified about this guy 6 weeks ago, the FBI should have communicated with the local police, the police were notified about this guy, but they did not get in contact with the FBI.  Last fall somebody piped up about the social media threatening videos this guy posted indicating his intentions.
The school knew about this guy , yet did nothing to communicate with the local police or take measures to make sure the school grounds were secured.
So the FBI, the police, and the school all were were warned & informed about the guy, yet none of these entities did a thing about it.
Bureaucracies need to be overhauled & Political Correctness needs to be outlawed!!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/02/16/as-florida-town-mourns-authorities-revisit-possible-warning-signs-before-school-massacre/

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

tbergs said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Root of the problem lol you all are literally insane.
What problem has America EVER gotten to the root of?  
Logistically, a teacher can't stop a shooting but we can collectively as a society solve the logistics of poverty, mental health, and firearm proliferation in no time, eh?

Other countries have solved their gun violence problems. See Australia, Canada, Japan, etc. for the model.

And you missed my point which I probably never made very clear: dumping this problem on the shoulders of teachers who simply wish to teach is not right for countless reasons.

If that is the approach the US wants to take... then station trained soldiers in every school and have soldiers do soldierly duties on the homeland.

I know plenty of teachers that would gladly jump on the opportunity, especially if there was a pay incentive behind it...but I’m in TX, so...

This might be so... but it is still inappropriate.

Yeah and expressed those same sentiments 6 years ago when 20 little kids were slaughtered.
What's changed since then?  How high does the body count need to get before it becomes appropriate?

So put a f**king navy seal in the school then. Training the wierd art teacher to leave his shading lesson, run to the gun safe, grab the school gun, and make his way through the mayhem to deal with some f**king idiot is not the answer.

My gawd, RG. I know where you sit with this issue and I know you're hot under the collar, but you're not thinking clearly enough here in my mind.

Why not, if that art teacher has displayed the proficiency requirements and runs through scenario trainings?  Seems like a better approach that expecting them to stand in front of the students taking bullets in hopes that the students can escape.  In his particular shooting, one or two armed individuals with good training would have stopped the perp in his tracks.

They will all need to open carry at the schools. Think about that. Your kids teachers will need to look like Wyatt Earp wandering the halls of your elementary.

I like how everyone acts like we have tried all of these measures and they have failed so the only solution is to arm and lockdown schools. We literally have tried zero actual measures to curb gun violence.

Wyatt Earp...really?  Maybe thinking that they would all need to look like “Wyatt Earp” is also the problem...
Why would they have to open carry?  Again, even a stun gun would be better than nothing at all.  You have got to have SOME type of defense.  If they want the pay increase, then they would have to go above and beyond in the training and actually run scenario based drills like the police and security guards do.  

Well, if you want them to be able to stop a threat at any time they will need to be carrying. I guess they could conceal, but that comes with it's own caveats. And honestly, they'll need more than a 9mm if they're expected to have a high probability to stop someone with an AR-15. On top of that, we want our teachers to not only be highly skilled educators, but take the time to train to be a proficient tactical response as well. Glad we have all this money to throw around. That teacher should be paid about $100,000 with those dual roles.