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jpdannabelle said:

PJ_Soul said:

Btw, it's not like the ticket buyers aren't guilty in all this. They are just as culpable when they purchase tix on the secondary market. They are, at the end of the day, the real problem and are the ones who ultimately screw us all over in their desire to get what they want no matter what. The sellers wouldn't do it if the fans wouldn't buy it. That is why I encourage ALL fans to not buy marked up tickets, ever. I think missing shows is worth not supporting this terrible kind of business.

Hard to blame the fans. I’m guilty of buying from a scapler. I’ve spent $400 on one ticket to go see PJ when I couldn’t get a ticket anywhere else. I wanted a primo seat and I paid for it. Nobody says scalpers are killing babies, they’ll always be around if people are willing to pay them. The real issue here is a 10c member had a GA ticket for sale on StubHub. Those tickets are meant for fans and are not meant for making money off of. 

Any ticket being sold is for the fans, but we know it's also a huge open market for those only looking to score tickets at face that they will then turnaround at 2 - 3 times the value or more. It's gross behavior no matter if it's done on a specific PJ fan ticket or Justin f-ing Bieber. 

Saltzy23 said:

tbergs said:

Saltzy23 said:

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

You guys are missing the point.

Unless Stubhub is literally going to facilitate the seller either obtaining the cell number of the buyer so they can transfer the extra through the 10C system, or act as a middle man to send them a screen grab of it or something selling extra 10C tickets on Stubhub the way they are being distributed for this tour is impossible.

There are still other ways to try and dime the system, like Craigslist or whatever, but I am not seeing how anyone can get their extra from Point A to Point B using Stubhub as the service provider.

Not sure StubHub would even care where the ticket comes from. As long as the ticket is legit, they’re making a percentage on the sale and that’s all they care about. If someone is willing to pay for it, they’ll buy the ticket and when the 10c member gets their tickets they’ll get the phone number from the buyer and transfer the ticket. It seems pretty simple. Maybe I’m missing something. At the end of the day it’s not illegal, it just goes against 10c rules so really all the seller is risking is their membership if they even care about it or not. 

No.  They won't.  It's not how it fucking works.

I'm not trying to sound like a know it all dickhead here, but I made like $15k selling tickets on Stubhub last year, and I kinda know it all.

Stubhub is a huge global ticketing service. They are not going to start acting like a middle man (to assist in selling tickets that shouldn't even be sold) to manually hand hold 2 people being able to coordinate on how to transfer a ticket from one mobile phone to another, which won't even be accessible for like 5 more months.

Just go with me here.

You might be part of the problem 

Of free market laisse faire capitalism?  Sure.

It's LITERALLY Stubhub's entire business model.

As stated, I have never sold any 10C seats on Stubhub ever, nor will I.

Everything else is fair game. 

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

You guys are missing the point.

Unless Stubhub is literally going to facilitate the seller either obtaining the cell number of the buyer so they can transfer the extra through the 10C system, or act as a middle man to send them a screen grab of it or something selling extra 10C tickets on Stubhub the way they are being distributed for this tour is impossible.

There are still other ways to try and dime the system, like Craigslist or whatever, but I am not seeing how anyone can get their extra from Point A to Point B using Stubhub as the service provider.

Not sure StubHub would even care where the ticket comes from. As long as the ticket is legit, they’re making a percentage on the sale and that’s all they care about. If someone is willing to pay for it, they’ll buy the ticket and when the 10c member gets their tickets they’ll get the phone number from the buyer and transfer the ticket. It seems pretty simple. Maybe I’m missing something. At the end of the day it’s not illegal, it just goes against 10c rules so really all the seller is risking is their membership if they even care about it or not. 

No.  They won't.  It's not how it fucking works.

I'm not trying to sound like a know it all dickhead here, but I made like $15k selling tickets on Stubhub last year, and I kinda know it all.

Stubhub is a huge global ticketing service. They are not going to start acting like a middle man (to assist in selling tickets that shouldn't even be sold) to manually hand hold 2 people being able to coordinate on how to transfer a ticket from one mobile phone to another, which won't even be accessible for like 5 more months.

Just go with me here.

You might be part of the problem 

Of free market laisse faire capitalism?  Sure.

It's LITERALLY Stubhub's entire business model.

As stated, I have never sold any 10C seats on Stubhub ever, nor will I.

Everything else is fair game. 

Sounds like quite the contradiction.  So its cool to scalp Pearl Jam fans as long as its not with 10C tickets?  I don't understand that one.  I'm not sure if you are aware but Stubhub sells mobile tickets.  They have been selling them for a while.  They use email addresses to transfer mobile tickets from one user to another.  No hand holding necessary.

I have never sold any PJ tickets for over face value, ever.  Irregardless of how I was able to get them.

I do love the scarlet letter that you get by admitting that you sell/have sold tickets for over face value.

Again, it's literally Stubhub's entire business model, and this is America.

They are commodity just like anything else.  I do the same thing with stocks and yet no one seems to think that is wrong, but if you sell tickets you are a scumag.

I have never got that, and never will.

You've made that clear. If the mindset is greed then that's something each individual needs to make a decision on if it's worth it to them as a person. No one forces you to buy 4 season tickets either, just like no one forces anyone to buy them from you for above market value. When you buy out the market and then jack up the cost because you alone have that supply, that's not selling someone a good for the fair cost. Would I love to make an extra 5k reselling tickets or anything above face? Definitely, but it only feeds the problems of our already fucked up system that rewards and enables greed. I too have resold tickets I couldn't use on Stubhub, but I sell them at face. Yeah, Stubhub adds their fee, but I can't control that. And the green disease lives on!

My online account that stores my baseball e-tickets from the team that allows me to forward, print, etc. also has a 'Sell on StubHub' dropdown that links directly to Stubhub and automatically loads everything so you can list the tickets in like 4 clicks.

The season ticket holder book actually says, 'It's a great way to sell your extra tickets and mitigate the costs of the tickets.'

Stubhub is the actual approved 3rd party vendor for most MLB teams.

What scumbags!

I don't think that means sell them for more to make a profit. The fact that you can't sell every ticket is the risk you took going in to the situation. Either way, you're still only half of the problem, but you are a part of the problem whether you see it that way or not.

my2hands said:

Burn that fucker on the stake

I don't care what you flip... posters, shirts, socks, stickers, dog collars.... don't give a shit

But dont EVER flip 10c tix... scumbags

AGREED. 

tbergs said:

Saltzy23 said:

tbergs said:

Saltzy23 said:

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

You guys are missing the point.

Unless Stubhub is literally going to facilitate the seller either obtaining the cell number of the buyer so they can transfer the extra through the 10C system, or act as a middle man to send them a screen grab of it or something selling extra 10C tickets on Stubhub the way they are being distributed for this tour is impossible.

There are still other ways to try and dime the system, like Craigslist or whatever, but I am not seeing how anyone can get their extra from Point A to Point B using Stubhub as the service provider.

Not sure StubHub would even care where the ticket comes from. As long as the ticket is legit, they’re making a percentage on the sale and that’s all they care about. If someone is willing to pay for it, they’ll buy the ticket and when the 10c member gets their tickets they’ll get the phone number from the buyer and transfer the ticket. It seems pretty simple. Maybe I’m missing something. At the end of the day it’s not illegal, it just goes against 10c rules so really all the seller is risking is their membership if they even care about it or not. 

No.  They won't.  It's not how it fucking works.

I'm not trying to sound like a know it all dickhead here, but I made like $15k selling tickets on Stubhub last year, and I kinda know it all.

Stubhub is a huge global ticketing service. They are not going to start acting like a middle man (to assist in selling tickets that shouldn't even be sold) to manually hand hold 2 people being able to coordinate on how to transfer a ticket from one mobile phone to another, which won't even be accessible for like 5 more months.

Just go with me here.

You might be part of the problem 

Of free market laisse faire capitalism?  Sure.

It's LITERALLY Stubhub's entire business model.

As stated, I have never sold any 10C seats on Stubhub ever, nor will I.

Everything else is fair game. 

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

jpdannabelle said:

Saltzy23 said:

You guys are missing the point.

Unless Stubhub is literally going to facilitate the seller either obtaining the cell number of the buyer so they can transfer the extra through the 10C system, or act as a middle man to send them a screen grab of it or something selling extra 10C tickets on Stubhub the way they are being distributed for this tour is impossible.

There are still other ways to try and dime the system, like Craigslist or whatever, but I am not seeing how anyone can get their extra from Point A to Point B using Stubhub as the service provider.

Not sure StubHub would even care where the ticket comes from. As long as the ticket is legit, they’re making a percentage on the sale and that’s all they care about. If someone is willing to pay for it, they’ll buy the ticket and when the 10c member gets their tickets they’ll get the phone number from the buyer and transfer the ticket. It seems pretty simple. Maybe I’m missing something. At the end of the day it’s not illegal, it just goes against 10c rules so really all the seller is risking is their membership if they even care about it or not. 

No.  They won't.  It's not how it fucking works.

I'm not trying to sound like a know it all dickhead here, but I made like $15k selling tickets on Stubhub last year, and I kinda know it all.

Stubhub is a huge global ticketing service. They are not going to start acting like a middle man (to assist in selling tickets that shouldn't even be sold) to manually hand hold 2 people being able to coordinate on how to transfer a ticket from one mobile phone to another, which won't even be accessible for like 5 more months.

Just go with me here.

You might be part of the problem 

Of free market laisse faire capitalism?  Sure.

It's LITERALLY Stubhub's entire business model.

As stated, I have never sold any 10C seats on Stubhub ever, nor will I.

Everything else is fair game. 

Sounds like quite the contradiction.  So its cool to scalp Pearl Jam fans as long as its not with 10C tickets?  I don't understand that one.  I'm not sure if you are aware but Stubhub sells mobile tickets.  They have been selling them for a while.  They use email addresses to transfer mobile tickets from one user to another.  No hand holding necessary.

I have never sold any PJ tickets for over face value, ever.  Irregardless of how I was able to get them.

I do love the scarlet letter that you get by admitting that you sell/have sold tickets for over face value.

Again, it's literally Stubhub's entire business model, and this is America.

They are commodity just like anything else.  I do the same thing with stocks and yet no one seems to think that is wrong, but if you sell tickets you are a scumag.

I have never got that, and never will.

You've made that clear. If the mindset is greed then that's something each individual needs to make a decision on if it's worth it to them as a person. No one forces you to buy 4 season tickets either, just like no one forces anyone to buy them from you for above market value. When you buy out the market and then jack up the cost because you alone have that supply, that's not selling someone a good for the fair cost. Would I love to make an extra 5k reselling tickets or anything above face? Definitely, but it only feeds the problems of our already fucked up system that rewards and enables greed. I too have resold tickets I couldn't use on Stubhub, but I sell them at face. Yeah, Stubhub adds their fee, but I can't control that. And the green disease lives on!

My online account that stores my baseball e-tickets from the team that allows me to forward, print, etc. also has a 'Sell on StubHub' dropdown that links directly to Stubhub and automatically loads everything so you can list the tickets in like 4 clicks.

The season ticket holder book actually says, 'It's a great way to sell your extra tickets and mitigate the costs of the tickets.'

Stubhub is the actual approved 3rd party vendor for most MLB teams.

What scumbags!

I don't think that means sell them for more to make a profit. The fact that you can't sell every ticket is the risk you took going in to the situation. Either way, you're still only half of the problem, but you are a part of the problem whether you see it that way or not.

What problem?

The one where a willing buyer and a willing seller exchanged currency for a commodity at an agreed upon market rate via a 3rd party that facilitated and enabled the exchange for a % of the sale?

I see no problem here.

That I guess, is the problem.

jpdannabelle said:

PJ_Soul said:

jpdannabelle said:

PJ_Soul said:

Btw, it's not like the ticket buyers aren't guilty in all this. They are just as culpable when they purchase tix on the secondary market. They are, at the end of the day, the real problem and are the ones who ultimately screw us all over in their desire to get what they want no matter what. The sellers wouldn't do it if the fans wouldn't buy it. That is why I encourage ALL fans to not buy marked up tickets, ever. I think missing shows is worth not supporting this terrible kind of business.

Hard to blame the fans. I’m guilty of buying from a scapler. I’ve spent $400 on one ticket to go see PJ when I couldn’t get a ticket anywhere else. I wanted a primo seat and I paid for it. Nobody says scalpers are killing babies, they’ll always be around if people are willing to pay them. The real issue here is a 10c member had a GA ticket for sale on StubHub. Those tickets are meant for fans and are not meant for making money off of. 

I don't find it hard to blame the fans at all.
Now I don't want to make it sound like I think I'm Mother fucking Teresa or anything, lol, but it isn't hard to just say, "shitty. I really really really want to see that show.... but I won't get what I want for the greater good. I will not support the scalping industry." To me, it's worth it to miss the show. I wish everyone would boycott the secondary market (unless the price is face value or below of course - those sales aren't the problem). If they did, we'd see an end to this problem immediately. Obviously, I don't actually expect that to happen, but I can at least not make myself a part of the problem.

At the end of the day if there’s enough demand for something there will be the ones who sell and the ones who buy. I was unlucky this lottery. If a 10c member offered me a GA to Wrigley 1 right now for over face value would I buy it? I have a budget but my need to see this band live might make me consider it. Would I rat him out? Probably not. I would beg and plead a bit buy I’d probably buy it. So you’re probably right, fans are just as guilty I guess. 

Well aside from the obvious moral problem with that, be careful. If you are part of a transaction where 10C tix are being scalped you'll lose your membership just as fast as the seller, if you're found out somehow.

PJ_Soul said:

jpdannabelle said:

PJ_Soul said:

Btw, it's not like the ticket buyers aren't guilty in all this. They are just as culpable when they purchase tix on the secondary market. They are, at the end of the day, the real problem and are the ones who ultimately screw us all over in their desire to get what they want no matter what. The sellers wouldn't do it if the fans wouldn't buy it. That is why I encourage ALL fans to not buy marked up tickets, ever. I think missing shows is worth not supporting this terrible kind of business.

Hard to blame the fans. I’m guilty of buying from a scapler. I’ve spent $400 on one ticket to go see PJ when I couldn’t get a ticket anywhere else. I wanted a primo seat and I paid for it. Nobody says scalpers are killing babies, they’ll always be around if people are willing to pay them. The real issue here is a 10c member had a GA ticket for sale on StubHub. Those tickets are meant for fans and are not meant for making money off of. 

I don't find it hard to blame the fans at all.
Now I don't want to make it sound like I think I'm Mother fucking Teresa or anything, lol, but it isn't hard to just say, "shitty. I really really really want to see that show.... but I won't get what I want for the greater good. I will not support the scalping industry." To me, it's worth it to miss the show. I wish everyone would boycott the secondary market (unless the price is face value or below of course - those sales aren't the problem). If everyone boycotted, put themselves behind the greater good in terms of concert tickets, we'd see an end to this problem immediately. Obviously, I don't actually expect that to happen, but I can at least not make myself a part of the problem.

StubHub had a record quarter with GMV of $1.2 billion, up 5%, and revenue of $279 million, up 20%.  GMV = gross merchandise volume.  They sold 1.2 BILLION dollars worth of tickets in one quarter, they are not going anywhere.  Its just the way it is and while its great that you don't buy tickets for over face value, the masses will continue to buy on stubhub over and below face.  Its just not going to change and I for one will not short-change myself on shows I want to see.  There is no such thing as a sold-out show anymore.  Me sitting out and missing shows I want to see doesn't even represent a drop in the bucket with regards to the overall problem so why do it.

Saltzy23 said:

I want to see Robert Plant tonight at the Beacon, but the bastards that knew about the show before I did, planned, and bought the tickets back in September are now selling to their extra's for $300.

It's not fair!  I should also be able to go to something I wanna go to for face value after doing no planning and waking up the day of and deciding I wanna go from the people that did.

Oh, cruel, cruel world!

You buy tickets to purposely flip and sell them. That has nothing to do with what you are saying. The reason why a lot of fans have to go to the secondary market is because people like you scoop the tickets up right away with full intent not to go to the show and instead flip them immediately on a secondary market. You example is ridiculous. 

My feelings in summation:

1. The main topic is about Ten Club Ticket Policy and I hope these people get what's coming to them. Some public shaming would be nice, but you can't have everything. 

2. Straight scalping aside, I see a lot of people here and elsewhere seemingly thinking they have workarounds for the new system figured out. It will bring me great joy if they take it on the chin then melt down in a forum post.

3. The secondary market has changed a lot in the last 5-10 years. If your default setting is to get Mad Online about it, I'd suggest channeling your emotions from anger to curiosity. Learn how to find deals and make it work to your advantage. If your only interest is awesome seats to high demand events, consider diversifying those interests.

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

PJ_Soul said:

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

StubHub had a record quarter with GMV of $1.2 billion, up 5%, and revenue of $279 million, up 20%.  GMV = gross merchandise volume.  They sold 1.2 BILLION dollars worth of tickets in one quarter, they are not going anywhere.  Its just the way it is and while its great that you don't buy tickets for over face value, the masses will continue to buy on stubhub over and below face.  Its just not going to change and I for one will not short-change myself on shows I want to see.  There is no such thing as a sold-out show anymore.  Me sitting out and missing shows I want to see doesn't even represent a drop in the bucket with regards to the overall problem so why do it.

I know. The scalpers and their customers are like the oil industry. No matter how bad it is for everyone, it will never lose because of greed and self interest. It is one of the sad realities of our parasitic existence as humans in a society. But why be one who refuses to participate? Because I would be an asshole if I did participate. I'm not going to have the attitude that I do about it and then go ahead and do it anyway just because it's a lost cause because too many people don't give a shit. That isn't the kind of person I want to be. Every drop counts!

Respect!  I do not have the self-control.  Also, as I get older, I've become more of a seat-snob and would rather over-pay to sit in good seats vs sitting in the 300-level of an arena.  I'm admittedly not a "just be happy to be in the building, bro" kinda guy anymore.  Coincidentally, my wife also enjoys sitting in nice seats .

Haha, I'm admittedly a seat snob too. "Just happy to be in the building" is a concept that I can't seem to embrace. But I just have to make do without resorting to scalping. So I sign up for every mail list, free fan club (paid, in the case of 10C obviously), every radio station presale, I follow everyone I can think of on Spotify to get those presales, and I have an AMEX so can get in on any of those Front of the Line presales too. And I completely stress over the presales, lol. I get all nervous and my heart starts beating faster when that timer flips over to 10am and the race begins. So I usually end up with at least a pretty decent seat, if not a great one or GA. I have been known to not attend a show I really wanted to see because all I could pull was really shitty nosebleeds and that just wasn't how I wanted to experience the show. Once in a while I make the sacrifice. But hardly ever. If I work at it hard enough, I'm almost always pretty happy with what I get playing it straight.