New Ticket Policy Changes Simplified

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue.  The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members. 

I guess we'll just disagree then. I think when a couple puts in for 4 tickets, only needing 2 of them, they've doubled their odds without assuming additional risk. If they did away with the ability to transfer tickets, I would have fewer issues with this. You could go for 4 tickets, win 4, and have to eat 2. Assuming the additional risk would be the price for doubling your odds. But the way it was, there was no risk (hell, it was easy to transfer a pair to other 10c members as long as you were there to pick them up). This new policy adds a bit of complexity to the ticket transfer situation, so there is potential that this sort of scheme is slowed down a bit. I like it.

Yeah you got a good point there and that makes a lot of sense. You are probably right that new system should definitely slow down most of that. I guess I’ve always been fortunate and always have gotten the shows I have wanted so never really thouht about it from the other point of view. I don’t have two memberships by the way:)

Yeah, I have no problem with multiple memberships in a household, I just don't see how people should be allowed to put in for more tickets than they intend to use without some additional cost or consequence. And I understand why people do it. Everyone wants to get tickets and will do anything they can to increase their odds. I signed up for the Verified Fan thing as a way to increase my odds of securing a ticket if I don't get drawn in the lottery. So we do what we do. I just think this new policy controls the crazy flipping/transfer madness that is pervasive here during tour time. People can still have ticket buddies (you put in for show A, I'll put in for show , but it eliminates a massive number of "I've got an extra pair for the show" posts.

If I believed that everyone sells their "extra tickets at costs to other fan members" I might not have as much ass ache with the fact that I have been shut out of 80% of the ticket lotteries and had to try to score a terrible seat on ticket master or pay astronomical prices on stub hub.  Unfortunately I don't believe it.  Maybe some people are willing to sell that extra 6th row seat for cost but I know that some also fund a lot of their travel by selling at double, triple, or five times+ value.  This will stop a lot of that.  If you aren't that guy its nice that you at least didn't try to totally hose the ones of us that don't do it. If you are? Na Na Na Na Na Na.

I always thought my partner love PJ as much as I. But she thinks flying out from Australia for Sea x2 and Miss is ridiculous. And is trying to ban me going solo.
I figure I'll leave it to the lottery gods. Liking the sound of this new system, but we'll see.

Jvfireman416 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue.  The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members. 

I guess we'll just disagree then. I think when a couple puts in for 4 tickets, only needing 2 of them, they've doubled their odds without assuming additional risk. If they did away with the ability to transfer tickets, I would have fewer issues with this. You could go for 4 tickets, win 4, and have to eat 2. Assuming the additional risk would be the price for doubling your odds. But the way it was, there was no risk (hell, it was easy to transfer a pair to other 10c members as long as you were there to pick them up). This new policy adds a bit of complexity to the ticket transfer situation, so there is potential that this sort of scheme is slowed down a bit. I like it.

Yeah you got a good point there and that makes a lot of sense. You are probably right that new system should definitely slow down most of that. I guess I’ve always been fortunate and always have gotten the shows I have wanted so never really thouht about it from the other point of view. I don’t have two memberships by the way:)

Yeah, I have no problem with multiple memberships in a household, I just don't see how people should be allowed to put in for more tickets than they intend to use without some additional cost or consequence. And I understand why people do it. Everyone wants to get tickets and will do anything they can to increase their odds. I signed up for the Verified Fan thing as a way to increase my odds of securing a ticket if I don't get drawn in the lottery. So we do what we do. I just think this new policy controls the crazy flipping/transfer madness that is pervasive here during tour time. People can still have ticket buddies (you put in for show A, I'll put in for show , but it eliminates a massive number of "I've got an extra pair for the show" posts.

If I believed that everyone sells their "extra tickets at costs to other fan members" I might not have as much ass ache with the fact that I have been shut out of 80% of the ticket lotteries and had to try to score a terrible seat on ticket master or pay astronomical prices on stub hub.  Unfortunately I don't believe it.  Maybe some people are willing to sell that extra 6th row seat for cost but I know that some also fund a lot of their travel by selling at double, triple, or five times+ value.  This will stop a lot of that.  If you aren't that guy its nice that you at least didn't try to totally hose the ones of us that don't do it. If you are? Na Na Na Na Na Na.

As long as the same fans repeatedly get the best seats for way below market value, they will be able to profit. At least the new system tries to force fans to eat 50% of their excess supply, but many many fans are still commenting about putting in for extras. This could lead to even higher prices on resale markets.

There was a big chunk of yesterday when I thought the lottery opened up today. It was a nice feeling.

Sigh...one more day.

Is it a maximum two ticket per member via the lottery? No chance at getting four per lottery win, I guess is what I'm asking. Reading the above it seems to indicate that quite clearly but just curious.  I seem to recall the 2016 that it was two max but that seems like ages ago, so I could be wrong.

that's what I thought....thank you.   pre-planning

PJNB said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Jvfireman416 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

      I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows. 

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue.  The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members. 

I guess we'll just disagree then. I think when a couple puts in for 4 tickets, only needing 2 of them, they've doubled their odds without assuming additional risk. If they did away with the ability to transfer tickets, I would have fewer issues with this. You could go for 4 tickets, win 4, and have to eat 2. Assuming the additional risk would be the price for doubling your odds. But the way it was, there was no risk (hell, it was easy to transfer a pair to other 10c members as long as you were there to pick them up). This new policy adds a bit of complexity to the ticket transfer situation, so there is potential that this sort of scheme is slowed down a bit. I like it.

Yeah you got a good point there and that makes a lot of sense. You are probably right that new system should definitely slow down most of that. I guess I’ve always been fortunate and always have gotten the shows I have wanted so never really thouht about it from the other point of view. I don’t have two memberships by the way:)

Yeah, I have no problem with multiple memberships in a household, I just don't see how people should be allowed to put in for more tickets than they intend to use without some additional cost or consequence. And I understand why people do it. Everyone wants to get tickets and will do anything they can to increase their odds. I signed up for the Verified Fan thing as a way to increase my odds of securing a ticket if I don't get drawn in the lottery. So we do what we do. I just think this new policy controls the crazy flipping/transfer madness that is pervasive here during tour time. People can still have ticket buddies (you put in for show A, I'll put in for show , but it eliminates a massive number of "I've got an extra pair for the show" posts.

If I believed that everyone sells their "extra tickets at costs to other fan members" I might not have as much ass ache with the fact that I have been shut out of 80% of the ticket lotteries and had to try to score a terrible seat on ticket master or pay astronomical prices on stub hub.  Unfortunately I don't believe it.  Maybe some people are willing to sell that extra 6th row seat for cost but I know that some also fund a lot of their travel by selling at double, triple, or five times+ value.  This will stop a lot of that.  If you aren't that guy its nice that you at least didn't try to totally hose the ones of us that don't do it. If you are? Na Na Na Na Na Na.

As long as the same fans repeatedly get the best seats for way below market value, they will be able to profit. At least the new system tries to force fans to eat 50% of their excess supply, but many many fans are still commenting about putting in for extras. This could lead to even higher prices on resale markets.

You guys act like there was a huge problem with 10 club tickets being sold for higher then face value. There was not. When was the last time you saw a GA ticket for sale on a secondary market site? Does it happen yes but how often? Not very often and 10 club usually gets it shutdown before a sale happens. Also the person had to go to the venue and pick the tickets up limiting scalpers to the town they live by. Now the way they have it set up is you can buy a GA pair for lets say Seattle. I could live in Europe and put in for the show with no intention of going. I could win the pair and now just sell my extra for a ridiculous amount of money and eat the cost of the other ticket since I just made so much off of that single ticket. Scalpers can now make hundreds of accounts just to do this making the odds even harder for us fans. It is a broke system already imo and really only benefits the scalpers. 

I'd say it's indirectly attributable to the 10c system. It impacts supply and pricing on the resale markets.

Compared to other premium concerts, there are significantly fewer PJ tickets on the resale markets.  Limited supply is one factor driving up resale prices.

Due to premium seat's face value pricing significantly below true market value, fans are able to game the system and can afford to hoard premium tickets. 

Fans that typically are not competing for multiple premium seats at other comparable events due to pricing, crowd out this space for PJ shows, and often hold multiple tickets city after city, year after year. Often, these tickets stay within their network of friends, and are not available to the "unconnected" random fan

By preventing the premium seats from entering the marketplace, the second tier tickets become the best available seats on the market and are priced much higher than comparable events on the resale market.

As a 10 Club member for a long time and a member that has LOST way more lottery entries than I want to even count I have to put in my opinion of the "selling of your second ticket"  complaint.  There have been MANY AMAZING fan club members who have helped me get a ticket or a pair when I had none.  I have NEVER been asked more than face.  I consider myself an "UNCONNECTED" fan.  As in I don't have a posse of PJ 10 Club members that are collecting tickets so they can sell them.  If it happens I'm not aware of it.  We help each other out and there is nothing wrong with that!  My partner and I have have 2 accounts because we have gotten our faces ripped off so many times, in reality it was the only way we ever could get tickets before the lottery.  
I think the club is doing everything to stay updated and to try and help their fanbase. Sure there maybe a few rotten apples in the barrel but most of us are good people just wanting to see our favorite band. I'm excited to see how this new system plays out.  I've been waiting for a better chance at getting a few shows via the 10 club and they way they word it I hope it's true!

PJNB said:

Scalpers can now make hundreds of accounts just to do this making the odds even harder for us fans. It is a broke system already imo and really only benefits the scalpers.

Completely agree and this is always my concern.  It was hard enough to get tickets before, and now this.  At least with the GA tickets, I wish they would get more strict, not less.  In-person pickup at least limited the global scalper.  Been saying for years that they should've made 10C tickets credit card entry only and I would get the automatic "I want to collect hard tickets" response, which was not the point.  Now we don't have hard tickets AND the buyer doesnt have to show up.